THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Backslapping time. Well done us. We are fantastic.
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yomptepi
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Re: PSL: JETHRO TULL - WOUND UP!

Postby yomptepi » 19 May 2013, 19:24

I too have problems with Epping forest, although the rest of the record is staggeringly good. SEBTP is one of my favourite albums too. I also struggle with War Child, although I like the three folk abums that follow it.
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kath
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Re: PSL: JETHRO TULL - WOUND UP!

Postby kath » 19 May 2013, 20:13

yomptepi wrote:I too have problems with Epping forest, although the rest of the record is staggeringly good. SEBTP is one of my favourite albums too. I also struggle with War Child, although I like the three folk abums that follow it.


then maybe it isn't a cultural divide at all. mwhaha. we line up on the above.

if we were gonna go up thru stormwatch, i would consider these to be the great tull albums.

stand up
benefit
aqualung
thick as a brick
minstrel in the gallery
songs from the wood
heavy horses
stormwatch

this leaves my second tier...

this was
a passion play
war child
too old to rock n roll

i still think they're very good... being tullan to their core... but they have elements holding me back from full-blown, slobbery luvvv. outta that bunch? the least mixed review from me is too old. mwhaha.

on the bright side, i so adore tull that i actually *do* retest myself fairly regularly on these albums. i think i'm gonna come around to a passion play, i really do. just tried war child last night, already been there, yappily. this was is really a diff beastie. i do dig it, but it's more of a pre-baked tull, at least compared to MY tull. half of it is kickass, for sure, but not as interesting to me. i think of it more as a bluesy period piece kickin off the evolution of the band.

as far as the greats go... i have said many times around here that songs from the wood is my fave. but i think it depends on how we are defining fave. thick as a brick is clearly the magnum opus, the master stroke of a masterpiece, all around. but when it comes to, well, songs... like, from the wood... if we are talking about a collection of songs that best represent my tull to me, songs from the wood is it. not that any of the other great albums don't compete very closely for that spot. they're so close to me, it's ridiculous.

it's funny.... my brother handed me aqualung when i was still in elementary school. it really is a perfect album, incredible from start to finish. i bought songs from the wood the day it came out, and i thought it was perfect, too, with one noticeable difference: that darkly cynical, scathingly satirical way of lookin at life... it suddenly got tempered with celebration, with winks that were fun winks, not bitter ones... the dark shit is still there, but the attitude behind that album is actually joyful, cheerful. it took what was already one of my fave bands and drilled it riiiiight home for me, philosophically, i guess i'd say. that album is me. i do not deny for a second how fucquin fantastic thick as a brick is. the pinnacle. but ya knowww... i be needin my tull playin songs in the pub, too. i need to jump on the table and dance occasionally... etc.

i guess it doesn't really matter how we'd split up our tiers or whatever. lookin back, overall? it truly is amazing just how much great music tull has left behind.

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Re: PSL: JETHRO TULL - WOUND UP!

Postby lord_of_light88 » 21 May 2013, 10:57

I too had a weird relationship with Epping Forest for a long time, and it used to bug me no end because I loved the rest of the album. I noticed I could play all the songs in my head but I couldn't ever remember that one. So it was that with hands on hips I one day said, "right!" and decided I would just take that one song and play it once, on its own. Then I proceeded to do that again over the following days, just playing that one song one time, listening to it, and ignoring the rest of the album. Catching it with fresh ears like that worked, and soon enough it started to reveal its charms. Before the week was over I was actually looking forward to playing it again the next day.

Silly, I know, but it's true that taking things out of the context you're used to have them in changes them. Epping Forest turned from a track that flew right over my head into one I enjoy and have my chuckles with. I find myself quoting some of the lyrics when I least expect it as well. Selling England became a new, better album for me that way. We're friends now.
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Re: PSL: JETHRO TULL - WOUND UP!

Postby trans-chigley express » 21 May 2013, 11:08

lord_of_light88 wrote:
Silly, I know, but it's true that taking things out of the context you're used to have them in changes them.

You're quite right. I frequently find that tracks that crop on random play sound better out of context of the the album than they do when I play the album it's from. It's typically a track that is over-shadowed on its original album and gets overlooked.

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Re: THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Postby kath » 21 May 2013, 15:12

i don't think it's silly, either. a good point.. it has happened to me with many other tracks. i'm gonna try epping that way.

mind ya, on the original album, epping leads off side two, so there's at least a mini-break on the context flow, if ya know what i mean. but a quibble. still worthy of a shot, listening to it with nowt else around it.

i was tryin to explain some of my probs with it down in the prog prem thread. i think i was yappin at NMB. i luvv peter as a vocalist, even though sometimes, he doth go a lil overboard in the theatrical mode of singing for me, personally. and of course, i luvv genesis, even though sometimes, when they get overly busy in a song or a section of a song, they can lose me... it just doesn't gibe right with me, for whatever reason.

epping is one of those cases when both are goin on at the same time. the song itself is busy, complicated, at times very dense, with all sorts of 'movements'. peter's singing, at times, gets all busy, over-theatrical, with lyrical lines crammed into tiny spaces, that kinda thing.

it's not that any of those lil pieces are necessarily wrong or unkathish in general. it's the way they come off together in the track. when those elements hit me just right, well, groovy. in epping, though, the effect is a bit jarring, or off-putting, at the least. reap said once that he would luvv to hear epping without the vocals, just so he could concentrate on the actual music. it would be neat to dig up whatever karaoke-clone software there is runnin around that would allow such a thing. at times, the vocals are a distraction from the music to me. and YET, there are times in the song i luvv the vocals, just as there are times when i hit a section of epping i find wunnnerful musically.

... probably signs i will come around to the track, if i try it from new or diff directions.

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Re: THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Postby Mike Boom » 21 May 2013, 16:35

Two Things

1. I have always loved Epping Forest, Liquid Len, Bob the Nob and not forgetting Harold Demure, its all fun and games innit guvnor!

2. Warchild is also brilliant and is in no way second tier Tull (have a word with yourselves!).

That is all.

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Re: THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Postby kath » 21 May 2013, 16:46

Mike Boom wrote:2. Warchild is also brilliant and is in no way second tier Tull (have a word with yourselves!).


okay.

(kath huddles with all her selves, mumbling, muttering, gesticulating, idkath suckin on a popsicle...)

nope, we still all agree with our earlier selves. while parts of warchild are brilliant and the whole is very good, the whole is not brilliant.

therefore, we think the only way to decide this is to have a thumb-wrestling match, between myselves and yerselves. (then later, we can put out the album, warthumb...)

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Re: THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Postby Cantankerous » 21 May 2013, 16:53

There is no such thing as second tier Tull

Maybe Under Wraps is close and possibly two of the last 4...

Yes, maybe Under Wraps is close and possibly two of the last 4...

But for the greatest band that ever walked the planet - that is about it!

Yes, that is about it!!






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Re: THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Postby kath » 21 May 2013, 17:02

C wrote:There is no such thing as second tier Tull

Maybe Under Wraps is close and possibly two of the last 4...

Yes, maybe Under Wraps is close and possibly two of the last 4...

But for the greatest band that ever walked the planet - that is about it!

Yes, that is about it!!






.


wellll, lemme put it this way. what i call second tier tull is still tiers above most everything else.

oh yeah...

kath wrote:i guess it doesn't really matter how we'd split up our tiers or whatever. lookin back, overall? it truly is amazing just how much great music tull has left behind.

... yew bitches.

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Re: THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Postby Mike Boom » 21 May 2013, 17:21

1. "War Child"
2. "Queen and Country"
3. "Ladies"
4. "Back-Door Angels"
5. "Sealion"
6. "Skating Away on the Thin Ice of the New Day"
7. "Bungle in the Jungle"
8. "Only Solitaire"
9. "The Third Hoorah"
10. "Two Fingers"

Skating Away and Back Door Angels - two solid gold Tull classics
Warchild, Ladies and Queen and Country all top notch. Only Solitaire a Tull acoustic classic . Sealion is first division Barre/electric Tull as is Two Fingers.
Hell ,its even got a hit single! which only leaves The Third Horrah as a slight letdown, and even that is a jaunty enough bit of fun. Whats not to like ? Its certainly better than Heavy Horses, and personally Id put it on par with Songs from the Wood.

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Re: THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Postby Mike Boom » 21 May 2013, 17:30

They should have included Glory Row or Rainbow Blues instead of the Third Hoorah.

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Re: PSL: JETHRO TULL - THICK AS A BRICK - NOW PLAYING!

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 21 May 2013, 18:00

yomptepi wrote:

I think the problem is with the multitracking on the actual recording. It is impossible to untangle tpes with have had tracks " bumped " I doubt there will ever be decent sounding remasters of those first three albums.


not sure about that
depends on what condition the multitracks are in
if you ever get hold of them
and how good the recording is
but then we are talking about a remix, not a remaster,
wich you do from the master mix tape
and a good remix/remaster can be done, if you know what you are doing, and stay faithful to
the original album mix (something Wilson manage on the Crimson ones, and the guy who did the
Genesis catalogue did not)
What Im trying to say, is that if you dont have a good recording and mix from the beginning its
very hard to save something
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Re: THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 21 May 2013, 18:03

epping is great
loved it on its release date
love it now
as the rest of the album
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Re: PSL: JETHRO TULL - THICK AS A BRICK - NOW PLAYING!

Postby yomptepi » 21 May 2013, 18:20

ConnyOlivetti wrote:
yomptepi wrote:

I think the problem is with the multitracking on the actual recording. It is impossible to untangle tpes with have had tracks " bumped " I doubt there will ever be decent sounding remasters of those first three albums.


not sure about that
depends on what condition the multitracks are in
if you ever get hold of them
and how good the recording is
but then we are talking about a remix, not a remaster,
wich you do from the master mix tape
and a good remix/remaster can be done, if you know what you are doing, and stay faithful to
the original album mix (something Wilson manage on the Crimson ones, and the guy who did the
Genesis catalogue did not)
What Im trying to say, is that if you dont have a good recording and mix from the beginning its
very hard to save something



Have you turned into Zpage?

If the original tracks were bumped together , then they cannot be untangled. And if those recordings were poor, then the fact that they were bumped would only make them more difficult to improve. Take Sly and the Family Stones recordings. Sometimes he overlaid 50 vocal tracks onto his 8 track tape, and as a result it has been impossible to clean up the masters. I don't know if NC and Foxtrot were recorded on 8 track ( likely) or 16 track, but the overall musheyness of the sound makes me think that it was poorly recorded 8 track, with multiple bumps.
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Re: PSL: JETHRO TULL - THICK AS A BRICK - NOW PLAYING!

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 21 May 2013, 18:37

yomptepi wrote:
ConnyOlivetti wrote:
yomptepi wrote:

I think the problem is with the multitracking on the actual recording. It is impossible to untangle tpes with have had tracks " bumped " I doubt there will ever be decent sounding remasters of those first three albums.


not sure about that
depends on what condition the multitracks are in
if you ever get hold of them
and how good the recording is
but then we are talking about a remix, not a remaster,
wich you do from the master mix tape
and a good remix/remaster can be done, if you know what you are doing, and stay faithful to
the original album mix (something Wilson manage on the Crimson ones, and the guy who did the
Genesis catalogue did not)
What Im trying to say, is that if you dont have a good recording and mix from the beginning its
very hard to save something



Have you turned into Zpage?

If the original tracks were bumped together , then they cannot be untangled. And if those recordings were poor, then the fact that they were bumped would only make them more difficult to improve. Take Sly and the Family Stones recordings. Sometimes he overlaid 50 vocal tracks onto his 8 track tape, and as a result it has been impossible to clean up the masters. I don't know if NC and Foxtrot were recorded on 8 track ( likely) or 16 track, but the overall musheyness of the sound makes me think that it was poorly recorded 8 track, with multiple bumps.


seems we are talking about the same thing
sorry to bother
continue
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Re: THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Postby Mike Boom » 21 May 2013, 18:45

In Other news apparently Steven Wilson has re-mixed the following Tull albums for release in 2013:
Benefit
A Passion Play
The Chataeu Disaster Tapes

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Re: THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Postby Cantankerous » 21 May 2013, 21:28

Mike Boom wrote:In Other news apparently Steven Wilson has re-mixed the following Tull albums for release in 2013:
Benefit
A Passion Play
The Chataeu Disaster Tapes



Yes, some of us have been salivating about this elsewhere.

The Chataeu d'Isaster Tapes are particularly interesting - is there more material that didn't make Nightcap I wonder...?





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Re: THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Postby kath » 23 May 2013, 20:13

Mike Boom wrote:1. "War Child"
2. "Queen and Country"
3. "Ladies"
4. "Back-Door Angels"
5. "Sealion"
6. "Skating Away on the Thin Ice of the New Day"
7. "Bungle in the Jungle"
8. "Only Solitaire"
9. "The Third Hoorah"
10. "Two Fingers"

Skating Away and Back Door Angels - two solid gold Tull classics
Warchild, Ladies and Queen and Country all top notch. Only Solitaire a Tull acoustic classic . Sealion is first division Barre/electric Tull as is Two Fingers.
Hell ,its even got a hit single! which only leaves The Third Horrah as a slight letdown, and even that is a jaunty enough bit of fun. Whats not to like ? Its certainly better than Heavy Horses, and personally Id put it on par with Songs from the Wood.



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Re: THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Postby kath » 23 May 2013, 20:15

C wrote:
Mike Boom wrote:In Other news apparently Steven Wilson has re-mixed the following Tull albums for release in 2013:
Benefit
A Passion Play
The Chataeu Disaster Tapes



Yes, some of us have been salivating about this elsewhere.

The Chataeu d'Isaster Tapes are particularly interesting - is there more material that didn't make Nightcap I wonder...?





.



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Re: THE JETHRO TULL FORUM

Postby Charlie O. » 23 May 2013, 23:11

Mike Boom wrote:which only leaves The Third Hoorah as a slight letdown... They should have included Glory Row or Rainbow Blues instead of the Third Hoorah.

That's one of my favorites! Indeed, it was mainly "Hoorah" and "Skating" that pulled me belatedly into the world of Tull, 'way back when.

"Rainbow Blues" and "Glory Row" are okay, but... they were outtakes for good reason.
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