Critically thinking about vaccines

Conspiracy theories and nonsense
Jimbo
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby Jimbo » 21 Jun 2021, 14:39

Case report
Guillain-Barre syndrome following the first dose of the chimpanzee adenovirus-vectored COVID-19 vaccine, ChAdOx1

We present an interesting case of a 37-year-old man who, 3 weeks following his first dose of the chimpanzee adenovirus-vectored COVID-19 vaccine, ChAdOx1, presented to hospital with a rapidly progressive ascending muscle weakness and back pain in the absence of any other triggers.
https://casereports.bmj.com/content/14/4/e242956

PS I checked to see if the "chimpanzee" part of the vaccine was kosher and apparently it's a thing. (WIKI: ChAdOx1 has been derived from a simian adenovirus (ChAd) serotype Y25 engineered by λ red recombination to exchange the native E4 orf4, orf6 and orf6/7 genes for those from human adenovirus HAdV-C5)
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby Jimbo » 21 Jun 2021, 14:45

'There's no other explanation': Utah mom blames COVID vaccines after her 17-year-old athlete son and her husband were BOTH hospitalized with rare blood clots after getting Pfizer and Moderna shots


BUT

Public health officials including the CDC say that the Pfizer and Moderna shots are not associated with an increased risk of rare blood clots, which were seen in a small number who received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... clots.html
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby Jimbo » 21 Jun 2021, 15:14

56-Year-old Greek Woman Dies Minutes After Second Pfizer Vaccine

A 56-year-old Greek woman died at Kalavryta Hospital just a few minutes after her second dose of the Pfizer vaccine.

The middle-aged woman, who was vaccinated during her 10:00 AM appointment in the morning of Friday at the hospital was pronounced dead just a few minutes after she received her second inoculation with the Pfizer coronavirus inoculation.
https://greekreporter.com/2021/06/18/gr ... r-vaccine/
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jimboo
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby jimboo » 21 Jun 2021, 16:47

Jimbo wrote:
Case report
Guillain-Barre syndrome following the first dose of the chimpanzee adenovirus-vectored COVID-19 vaccine, ChAdOx1

We present an interesting case of a 37-year-old man who, 3 weeks following his first dose of the chimpanzee adenovirus-vectored COVID-19 vaccine, ChAdOx1, presented to hospital with a rapidly progressive ascending muscle weakness and back pain in the absence of any other triggers.
https://casereports.bmj.com/content/14/4/e242956

PS I checked to see if the "chimpanzee" part of the vaccine was kosher and apparently it's a thing. (WIKI: ChAdOx1 has been derived from a simian adenovirus (ChAd) serotype Y25 engineered by λ red recombination to exchange the native E4 orf4, orf6 and orf6/7 genes for those from human adenovirus HAdV-C5)


It's a thing? So is bullshit.
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby jimboo » 21 Jun 2021, 16:48

Jimbo wrote:
56-Year-old Greek Woman Dies Minutes After Second Pfizer Vaccine

A 56-year-old Greek woman died at Kalavryta Hospital just a few minutes after her second dose of the Pfizer vaccine.

The middle-aged woman, who was vaccinated during her 10:00 AM appointment in the morning of Friday at the hospital was pronounced dead just a few minutes after she received her second inoculation with the Pfizer coronavirus inoculation.
https://greekreporter.com/2021/06/18/gr ... r-vaccine/



Yeah that's right. She had a heart attack.


Tragically, 20 people suffering from the coronavirus passed away in the country over the past 24-hour period, which represents an increase of four over those who had died with the virus on Thursday.

Since the beginning of the epidemic, a total of 12,514 deaths associated with the virus have been recorded. 95.2% of the victims suffered from underlying disease and/or were age 70 years and older.

The real part of the same report that you need to digest.
Last edited by jimboo on 21 Jun 2021, 16:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby jimboo » 21 Jun 2021, 16:50

Jimbo wrote:
'There's no other explanation': Utah mom blames COVID vaccines after her 17-year-old athlete son and her husband were BOTH hospitalized with rare blood clots after getting Pfizer and Moderna shots


BUT

Public health officials including the CDC say that the Pfizer and Moderna shots are not associated with an increased risk of rare blood clots, which were seen in a small number who received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... clots.html



They are not associated with it because as YOU posted they were both hospitalised with rare blood clots.

How do you feel about penicillin numbnuts?
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby jimboo » 21 Jun 2021, 16:53

Jimbo wrote:
Majority of Physicians Decline COVID Shots, according to Survey

Of the 700 physicians responding to an internet survey by the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS), nearly 60 percent said they were not “fully vaccinated” against COVID. ... the AAPS survey shows that physician support for the mass injection campaign is far from unanimous.
https://aapsonline.org/majority-of-phys ... to-survey/

I suspect there are more than a few body builders among the docs.


So not "not" vaccinated but partly vaccinated, right. Not refusing vaccination, right. Not against vaccination , right. Just not fully vaccinated. Where is the story , what is the story?
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toomanyhatz
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby toomanyhatz » 21 Jun 2021, 22:39

From "The Great Barrington Declaration":

Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed.

Fortunately, our understanding of the virus is growing. We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than a thousand-fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza.

As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine.
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby Jimbo » 24 Jun 2021, 03:03

toomanyhatz wrote:From "The Great Barrington Declaration":

Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed.

Fortunately, our understanding of the virus is growing. We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than a thousand-fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza.

As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine.


Yeah, a vaccine that was actually safe and effective and not this experimental horror they're doling out with free donuts.
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby toomanyhatz » 24 Jun 2021, 07:29

318 million doses. 5,479 unconfirmed deaths reported (post-vaccine rather than proven causation)

vs.

34,449,004 cases. 618,294 confirmed deaths reported (proven causation)

Covid deaths over-reported? Possibly, but more than borne out by 'excess deaths'.

Vaccine deaths under-reported? Not bloody likely - at least I haven't heard a very convincing case.

The difference is almost 1,000 times over.

Inconvenient things, facts.

Even if you could convince me that the difference is an exaggeration (hint: you can't), that's a whole hell of a lot of breathing room for 'margin-of-error.'

Is it too late to get my donut?
Footy wrote:
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. Got Jimi's autograph after the show and went on to see him several times that year


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Jimbo
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby Jimbo » 24 Jun 2021, 07:56

toomanyhatz wrote:318 million doses. 5,479 unconfirmed deaths reported (post-vaccine rather than proven causation)

vs.

34,449,004 cases. 618,294 confirmed deaths reported (proven causation)

Covid deaths over-reported? Possibly, but more than borne out by 'excess deaths'.

Vaccine deaths under-reported? Not bloody likely - at least I haven't heard a very convincing case.

The difference is almost 1,000 times over.

Inconvenient things, facts.

Even if you could convince me that the difference is an exaggeration (hint: you can't), that's a whole hell of a lot of breathing room for 'margin-of-error.'

Is it too late to get my donut?


Don't think you told me what you think the vaccines can do? I told you they're only supposed to relieve symptoms of the illness if you get it. It doesn't stop transmission.
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toomanyhatz
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby toomanyhatz » 24 Jun 2021, 08:02

Once again, an actual mistruth has been posted here.

We all know it, right? Nobody needs the disclaimer?
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby Jimbo » 24 Jun 2021, 08:04

toomanyhatz wrote:Once again, an actual mistruth has been posted here.

We all know it, right? Nobody needs the disclaimer?


So what do YOU THINK the vaccines do? I told you what I think. You say I am wrong. Fine. Your turn.
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toomanyhatz
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby toomanyhatz » 24 Jun 2021, 08:10

Nope. Already had this conversation.

Anyone who has any questions about anything regarding the vaccines can find plenty of information on line.

Again, all critical thought is welcome, as per the title.
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby Jimbo » 24 Jun 2021, 08:12

toomanyhatz wrote:Nope. Already had this conversation.

Anyone who has any questions about anything regarding the vaccines can find plenty of information on line.

Again, all critical thought is welcome, as per the title.


And I don't remember a clear answer.

Here is the NYT

Will being vaccinated stop the spread of Covid-19 so they can socialize outside their bubbles and dine indoors with abandon?

Eventually, yes.

Many scientists are reluctant to say with certainty that the vaccines prevent transmission of the virus from one person to another. This can be misinterpreted as an admission that the vaccines do not work. That’s not the case. The limited data available suggests the vaccines will at least partly reduce transmission, and the studies to determine this with more clarity are underway. There should be more data within the next couple of months. Until then, precautionary measures like masking and distancing in the presence of unvaccinated people will remain important.


Could it be any more mealy-mouthed?
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby jimboo » 24 Jun 2021, 09:45

Jimbo wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:Nope. Already had this conversation.

Anyone who has any questions about anything regarding the vaccines can find plenty of information on line.

Again, all critical thought is welcome, as per the title.


And I don't remember a clear answer.

Here is the NYT

Will being vaccinated stop the spread of Covid-19 so they can socialize outside their bubbles and dine indoors with abandon?

Eventually, yes.

Many scientists are reluctant to say with certainty that the vaccines prevent transmission of the virus from one person to another. This can be misinterpreted as an admission that the vaccines do not work. That’s not the case. The limited data available suggests the vaccines will at least partly reduce transmission, and the studies to determine this with more clarity are underway. There should be more data within the next couple of months. Until then, precautionary measures like masking and distancing in the presence of unvaccinated people will remain important.


Could it be any more mealy-mouthed?


What happens if we take no precautions? Is that at least clear? I mean you are doing whatever you want maskless , Vax free . So the no Vax data which isn't limited leaves you where?
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby Jimbo » 24 Jun 2021, 12:56

jimboo wrote:
What happens if we take no precautions?


Nothing. Or nothing particularly bad re Covid. (Still unfortunately have to worry about TB, cancer, pneumonia, gout, diabetes, ingrown toenails, etc.) We do what we've always done, cover our mouths when coughing and sneezing, washing our hands and just carrying on. If there is this new illness dubbed Covid, which God knows isn't the flu, (because the flu has vanished!) some unlucky people will catch it, a few will die but happily most of them will recover - and as a bonus - never catch it again! Meanwhile we try and stay healthy by getting lots of Vitamin D (sunshine), exercise and eating well. The illness will eventually vanish and then - precautions or no - reappear. And if you do catch it, a proper thinking MD will prescribe an inexpensive and time tested medicine like Ivermectin or the other ones. No vaccine "roll out" ( more military words) is needed. In other words, it ain't as bad as the TV says it is.
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toomanyhatz
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby toomanyhatz » 24 Jun 2021, 18:51

Stupidly, dangerously wrong.

But as we already know, facts have no effect.

The only good news for us at this point is that when the still-circulating, still mutating, still evolving virus comes to call, it will find some very willing hosts. Meanwhile us vaccinated folks will be continuing to get back to our regular lives.

I suppose I should be wary of the Climate Lockdown, but since my 'source' on that hasn't informed me about what that's going to look like, I guess I'll just enjoy myself in the meantime.

Yeah, I hope those folks do have strong immune systems.
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toomanyhatz
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby toomanyhatz » 25 Jun 2021, 02:02

https://respectfulinsolence.com/2021/05 ... ng-people/

If there weren't so many people that believed this nonsense, it would be laughable.
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Re: Critically thinking about vaccines

Postby jimboo » 25 Jun 2021, 08:09

Jimbo wrote:
jimboo wrote:
What happens if we take no precautions?


Nothing. Or nothing particularly bad re Covid. (Still unfortunately have to worry about TB, cancer, pneumonia, gout, diabetes, ingrown toenails, etc.) We do what we've always done, cover our mouths when coughing and sneezing, washing our hands and just carrying on. If there is this new illness dubbed Covid, which God knows isn't the flu, (because the flu has vanished!) some unlucky people will catch it, a few will die but happily most of them will recover - and as a bonus - never catch it again! Meanwhile we try and stay healthy by getting lots of Vitamin D (sunshine), exercise and eating well. The illness will eventually vanish and then - precautions or no - reappear. And if you do catch it, a proper thinking MD will prescribe an inexpensive and time tested medicine like Ivermectin or the other ones. No vaccine "roll out" ( more military words) is needed. In other words, it ain't as bad as the TV says it is.


Maybe people wearing masks and taking extra precautions has , wow somehow reduced the spreading of the flu virus? Mmmm.
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