"Fake News"

Bizarre theories and nonsense

Ban "fake news" sites?

Yes
1
13%
No
7
88%
 
Total votes: 8

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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 27 Feb 2017, 06:32

Uh...you inserted Greenwald's article into a comparison between two articles Jimbo mentioned.

We weren't discussing Greenwald in general - but rather the treatment of this story. Both the Intercept and Greenwald's pieces were clearly advocating a specific ideological POV. Your opinions on him in general isn't particularly meaningful in this context. But perhaps that's nuance that you don't get.
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Jimbo
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Jimbo » 27 Feb 2017, 06:34

PresMuffley wrote: if you truly believe objective journalism has ever existed, well...


This too.
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby ... » 27 Feb 2017, 07:59

Serious question, J:

Who do you propose we should trust with defining exactly what is and what isn't "fake news", and how do you propose they go about banning it?

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PresMuffley
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby PresMuffley » 27 Feb 2017, 10:55

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Uh...you inserted Greenwald's article into a comparison between two articles Jimbo mentioned.


No. I posted the link with the intention of helping you to understand the situation better since you took issue with the first article by Zaid Jilani (which I feel is a legitimate concern). Greenwald's piece from several months ago does a fine job of breaking down the issue at hand.

Your opinions on him in general isn't particularly meaningful in this context.


It is to me. I know exactly what he's about. You on the other hand are someone I know absolutely nothing about (other than that you have apparently worked in a newsroom). My point was I'll take his word over yours anyday. And rightly so.
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Samoan
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Samoan » 27 Feb 2017, 10:58

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Nonsense to the aggressiveness, I've seen more aggression on the my little pony message board......I mean I was told.

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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 27 Feb 2017, 17:19

PresMuffley wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Uh...you inserted Greenwald's article into a comparison between two articles Jimbo mentioned.


No. I posted the link with the intention of helping you to understand the situation better since you took issue with the first article by Zaid Jilani (which I feel is a legitimate concern). Greenwald's piece from several months ago does a fine job of breaking down the issue at hand.


Except that we weren't discussing articles about the perceptions regarding Ellison's views of Israel. We were comparing and contrasting articles about Perez's election and discussing how that event should have been handled. An article specifically about the charges levied at Ellison simply isn't the same thing. Nuance, I realize. But not hard to get.

On its own terms, I find that Greenwald article pretty piss-poor too. He fully hyperboblizes a few objections to Ellison's candidacy into a "vicious" and "repugnant" smear campaign. He further impugns the ADL as "ironically named" - while conveniently leaving out the fact that the ADL's CEO Jonathan Greenblatt had initially praised Ellison. Indeed - here is the initial statement made by Mr. Greenblatt three days before Greenwald's piece:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JGreenblattA ... wsrc%5Etfw

Which part of that reads like a vicious slander? The part where he calls him a "man of good character"? The part where he calls him, "an important ally in the fight against anti-semitism"? Did Greenwald skip the part where he said, "we want to make it clear to those who agree with Congressman Ellison that in doing so, there is no room for slander or innuendo because of his race or his faith."

I mean...what a brutal attack! :roll:
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 27 Feb 2017, 17:33

Jimbo wrote:
PresMuffley wrote: if you truly believe objective journalism has ever existed, well...


This too.


Now you are both just being obtuse.

Of course any reporting is always going to be subjective. That's the human condition. What is at issue is whether the goal of objectivity should be held up as a value or not. You guys seem to be fine with having it dispensed-with from the start. You don't mind a guy like Greenwald interpreting the facts for you and telegraphing what conclusions you should draw.

I personally think that editorializing is an important news function. It's good to have some trusted voices out there showing you how they connect all of the dots. I like to read editorials from multiple perspectives. But it's a secondary news function. First you need the dots themselves- and it's preferable for some of us to have them presented as objectively as possible when we first encounter them. I don't need an ideologue like Greenwald mixing his opinion in as if it's an intrinsic component of the facts themselves.
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PresMuffley
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby PresMuffley » 27 Feb 2017, 17:45

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Except that we weren't discussing articles about the perceptions regarding Ellison's views of Israel.


You're either delusional or a liar - perhaps a mere buffoon. Either way, you are a tedious motherfucker with a complete lack of self-awareness. I'm done here. Hope you have a fabulous day.
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Dr Markus
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Dr Markus » 27 Feb 2017, 17:48

Wow
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Minnie the Minx
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Minnie the Minx » 27 Feb 2017, 17:49

Mr/Ms Muffley has got into the BCB groove fuckin' quickly!
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 27 Feb 2017, 17:52

PresMuffley wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Except that we weren't discussing articles about the perceptions regarding Ellison's views of Israel.


You're either delusional or a liar - perhaps a mere buffoon. Either way, you are a tedious motherfucker with a complete lack of self-awareness. I'm done here. Hope you have a fabulous day.


You were "done" from the beginning. Glad you finally caught on.
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Dr Markus
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Dr Markus » 27 Feb 2017, 17:52

*drops mike*
Drama Queenie wrote:You are a chauvinist of the quaintest kind. About as threatening as Jack Duckworth, you are a harmless relic of that cherished era when things were 'different'. Now get back to drawing a moustache on that page three model

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Diamond Dog
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Diamond Dog » 27 Feb 2017, 17:58

I kinda like these IMDB guys already :)

I particularly enjoy their open minded debating skills and ability to avoid unnecessary ad hominem attacks, don't you?
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Belle Lettre
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Belle Lettre » 27 Feb 2017, 18:01

The Twat Patrol wrote:Mr/Ms Muffley has got into the BCB groove fuckin' quickly!

I like it!
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Get a fucking grip you narcissistic cretins.

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naughty boy
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby naughty boy » 27 Feb 2017, 18:07

GET IT FILLED!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Goat Boy
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Goat Boy » 27 Feb 2017, 18:17

-
Last edited by Goat Boy on 27 Feb 2017, 18:23, edited 1 time in total.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:a right wing cretin like Berger....bleating about racism

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Goat Boy
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Goat Boy » 27 Feb 2017, 18:23

Diamond Dog wrote:I kinda like these IMDB guys already :)

I particularly enjoy their open minded debating skills and ability to avoid unnecessary ad hominem attacks, don't you?


He's got Davey figured out in a week!

Brilliant!!!! :lol:
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:a right wing cretin like Berger....bleating about racism

Jimbo
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Jimbo » 27 Feb 2017, 18:37

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
PresMuffley wrote: if you truly believe objective journalism has ever existed, well...


This too.


Now you are both just being obtuse.



Even the Washington Post had this to say in an article about why Ellison lost.

A persistent smear campaign cost Ellison votes. In November and December, when it seemed that Ellison was on a glide path to victory, conservative websites and some Jewish groups went after him for his criticism of Israel's policy toward Palestinians and his defense of Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan. By Dec. 15, when Perez actually entered the race, Ellison had already apologized. And for much of the campaign, the issue was absent. The only flash point on the “anti-Semitism” charge came at a Huffington Post-moderated debate, where Ellison's rivals agreed that donor Haim Saban should apologize for calling Ellison an anti-Semite.

In the final days of the campaign, Ellison's harshest critics — including Alan Dershowitz, who donates to Democrats but is not particularly involved in the party — reemerged to smear the congressman's record on Jewish issues. The National Jewish Congress put out fresh criticisms of Ellison, which Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (N.Y.), an Ellison supporter, publicly disputed. Young Turks' Konst obtained a formulaic-seeming email sent to undecided DNC members, warning them that electing Ellison would “send the wrong message” on Israel.

The attacks on Ellison ate up a surprising amount of the space that the DNC race earned in mainstream media. (Dershowitz's media savvy didn't hurt.) It negatively affected Ellison only around the margins, but in a race decided by 18 votes, it stung.


Succinct and less bombastic but says the same almost thing as the Intercept article. That the Times appears (perhaps they've updated the report) to have shied away from this pretty big factor in Ellison's loss gets my Jimbo up. If the Times had written something like this in their piece I wouldn't have wondered at the glaring difference between the Intercept and the NYT.
Question authority.

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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 27 Feb 2017, 18:38

Goat Boy wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:I kinda like these IMDB guys already :)

I particularly enjoy their open minded debating skills and ability to avoid unnecessary ad hominem attacks, don't you?


He's got Davey figured out in a week!

Brilliant!!!! :lol:


Well Glenn Greenwald did a scathing piece on me, so he had the straight dope.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: "Fake News"

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 27 Feb 2017, 18:46

Jimbo - I conceded from the get-go that the omission weakened the Times' piece. But again - some folks would argue that including it was tantamount to perpetuating it. There is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" calculation to be made at times with issues like this.

If you want to argue that the Post did a better job with this than the Times - I'll probably agree with you. But you cited the difference as a reason to call the Times' article "fake news." That is bullshit of a high order.
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