UK General Election thread

[Limpin' Jez McKenzie]

Okay here's a thread for all GE discussion and we will start with:

Tories to bring back National Service.
Surely the most desperate suggestion ever; and like any new policy suggested by the current administration, if this is such a good idea, why haven't you introduced it already? As it happens I think here may be some mileage in the population (not necessarily restricted to young adults) being expected to carry out some kind of community benefit for a period, but this idea is (inevitably, given its provenance) largely tied to military service.

[Rorschach]

It's an odd one and must surely be aimed at Reform voters; I can't see it having that much appeal outside of the gammon constituency.

What really seems bizarre to me is the idea of a bunch of children of immigrants dragging the party of the establishment as far right as they can get it. Sunak seems an odd choice for a British Mussolini.

[Deebank]

Didn’t Cameron suggest a similar scheme in the run up to an election?

The behaviour of a government that’s run out of ideas and support. The sort of kids it is meant to help will never be arsed to join this supposedly voluntary scheme. Utter bollocks.

At the same time Labour is looking at enfranchising 16 and 17 year olds which would be a positive move. A rare progressive suggestion from Starmer.

[ChrisB]

86 year old Claude Balls from Kingston upon Thames thinks it's a rip roaring idea and should have been introduced years ago. "Country has gone downhill since those bloody Beatles!"
18 year olds, up and down the country, may have a different point of view. (but don't worry, if you don't want to do it, you won't be sent to prison.)
Yet another pathetic attempt by theTories to try and gain a few votes. James Cleverly is ex army, Lieutenant Colonel to be precise. No wonder he's enthusiatic about this National Service/Not National Service proposal. Assuming this applies to everyone, bet his sons, Freddy and Rupert can't wait until they're 18 and start to mix with council estate the riff raff.
Jacob Rees-Mogg,s son, Peter Theodore Alphege Rees Mogg, will be 18 next year. First time ever, a Rees-Mogg has voted Labour

[The Modernist]

Didn’t Cameron suggest a similar scheme in the run up to an election?

The behaviour of a government that’s run out of ideas and support. The sort of kids it is meant to help will never be arsed to join this supposedly voluntary scheme. Utter bollocks.

At the same time Labour is looking at enfranchising 16 and 17 year olds which would be a positive move. A rare progressive suggestion from Starmer.

What's progressive about it? Most kids that age aren't bothered about voting. Just leave it as it is.

On the idea of some sort of service, I think it potentially has a lot of merit. But throwing it in during a snap election just makes it seem another desperate and insincere bid for votes. As said earlier, if they believed in it they'd have been discussing it in the public arena for years..

[The Modernist]

86 year old Claude Balls from Kingston upon Thames thinks it's a rip roaring idea and should have been introduced years ago. "Country has gone downhill since those bloody Beatles!"
18 year olds, up and down the country, may have a different point of view. (but don't worry, if you don't want to do it, you won't be sent to prison.)
Yet another pathetic attempt by theTories to try and gain a few votes. James Cleverly is ex army, Lieutenant Colonel to be precise. No wonder he's enthusiatic about this National Service/Not National Service proposal. Assuming this applies to everyone, bet his sons, Freddy and Rupert can't wait until they're 18 and start to mix with council estate the riff raff.
Jacob Rees-Mogg,s son, Peter Theodore Alphege Rees Mogg, will be 18 next year. First time ever, a Rees-Mogg has voted Labour

It doesn't have to be a return to some 50s style 'get 'em in the army' though, that's not how it works in Sweden.
I think it's the kind of idea that the left should be embracing because it could show a commitment to the idea of society and civic responsibility.

[robertff]

It doesn't have to be a return to some 50s style 'get 'em in the army' though, that's not how it works in Sweden.
I think it's the kind of idea that the left should be embracing because it could show a commitment to the idea of society and civic responsibility.

From what I’ve read that seems to be about the jist of it and certainly not like the previous 50’s National Service call up. It appears to be far more low key than that and more to do with volunteering in their community for short periods of time. Not sure it’s an election vote winner though.


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[ChrisB]

Has anyone asked an 18 year old?

[robertff]

Has anyone asked an 18 year old?

Loads of things I haven’t been asked in my life Chris.


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[ChrisB]

That was a mixture of despondency and acceptance

[robertff]

That was a mixture of despondency and acceptance

Nope just reality.


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[mudshark]

When I was just a teenage mudshark, conscription was still very much alive in The Netherlands. It got cancelled a few years (5?) after it was my turn to defends our beaches or whatever. I managed to escape it: I was considered 'psychologically unfit'. That took some effort, but then again less than I thought it would have taken. The "S-5" ruling was deeply disturbing for my parents, because it meant I'd never be able to become a civil servant. Win some, lose some. I thought that whole army thing would have been a waste of my time, and I'm sure I was right. But bringing it back is a great idea!. Think of all these frustrated, desolate boys and girls with an immigration background: they'll now get some proper training, with access to guns! This cannot go wrong.

[ChrisB]

Good job Rishi didn't introduce this last year or there would have been an e mail to Eric Ten Haag. " Dear Eric, due to the volunteering commitments, Kobbie won't be able to play at Wembley this weekend"

[robertff]

Good job Rishi didn't introduce this last year or there would have been an e mail to Eric Ten Haag. " Dear Eric, due to the volunteering commitments, Kobbie won't be able to play at Wembley this weekend"

That would probably have made a lot of people happy.




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[Hugh]

Labour's New Deal employment programme in the late 90s included mandatory work experience in the voluntary sector or the "environmental task force" both of which included time devoted to job search activities. This went a long way to reducing youth unemployment at the time.

What the Tories are proposing doesn't seem a million miles away from this but has been couched in terms that are more appealing to their target audience.

[copehead]

[qu Most kids that age aren't bothered about voting.

The evidence from Scotland and Wales has been pretty encouraging.

I don't think engaging young people with politics is a bad idea at all

[copehead]

It doesn't have to be a return to some 50s style 'get 'em in the army' though, that's not how it works in Sweden.
I think it's the kind of idea that the left should be embracing because it could show a commitment to the idea of society and civic responsibility.

It works in Sweden because it is a two way street.

Same in Norway, young adults positively queue for places because they get a huge amount back in return including free higher education

I can't see it being run along the same egalitarian lines here can you?

It will scrubbing latrines and picking up rubbish for the lower orders and placements at Universities and as junior officers for the handful of children of our "betters" who actually end up on it.

[mudshark]

I don't know that much about UK politics, but enough to know that Labour should be a shoo-in, the time around. When the people vote Labour, is it because they want to get rid of the Tories, or if they like that guy Starmer so much? I watched a 15-minutes topic on him last night. He comes across as a right creep. Reminds me of Neil Kinnock. Not sure why.

[copehead]

I don't know that much about UK politics, but enough to know that Labour should be a shoo-in, the time around. When the people vote Labour, is it because they want to get rid of the Tories, or if they like that guy Starmer so much? I watched a 15-minutes topic on him last night. He comes across as a right creep. Reminds me of Neil Kinnock. Not sure why.

No one likes Starmer, he is nearly as unpopular as the Tory leader and just as much of a lying, rightwing bully.

People are just sick to death of the Tories and will vote for the alternative.

Or not, Labour are too right wing for me; a fully neoliberal party when it is pretty much clear to everyone that neoliberalism has completely failed, people are having to boil their tap water in Surrey for fucks sake.

[Deebank]

I will apply my first law of politics which states:

The worst Labour government is better than the best Conservative government.

That said, under FPTP I will vote tactically to get the local Tory out.

Carol Vorderman has the details.