Do you wish death on your enemies?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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jimboo
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby jimboo » 19 May 2021, 11:51

I'd hang the DJ as well
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby jimboo » 19 May 2021, 11:53

I would shoot Nigel Farage in the throat on live television or in a stadium ( once covid has passed , I'm not an animal)
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby Rorschach » 19 May 2021, 12:07

jimboo wrote:I would shoot Nigel Farage in the throat on live television or in a stadium ( once covid has passed , I'm not an animal)



You Hobbesian bastard!
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby Rorschach » 19 May 2021, 12:15

The Prof wrote:If Johnson had died of Covid, would you have felt quite proud? or would you have kept quiet about your wish?


I can't see what I'd have to feel proud about. Not sure what you mean.
I think I would have been happy/amused but I'd have been careful to whom I mentioned it. I know some people who really don't like people being happy about any death. But I know other people I could have enjoyed laughing about it with.

never/ever wrote:I'd appreciated the irony.
More so if it happened to be Bolsonaro....


Same here.
Last edited by Rorschach on 19 May 2021, 13:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby Deebank » 19 May 2021, 12:55

Rorschach wrote:
Deebank wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
I had to look that up!

I think I could get into it...


I would have put money on you being a Robert Anton Wilson fan :)


You would have lost. I had to look him up as well.

And I'm not flattered!
He sounds like a bit of a tit to me.


Very much 'of his time' perhaps but a true legend.
Check out the Illuminatus! books or Cosmic Trigger.
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby Rorschach » 19 May 2021, 13:02

Deebank wrote:
Very much 'of his time' perhaps but a true legend.
Check out the Illuminatus! books or Cosmic Trigger.


OK. I'll maybe give him a whirl some time.
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby Deebank » 19 May 2021, 13:04

KeithPratt wrote: I think we would all agree that it is generally wrong to mug people in the street, but that downloading a widely available film from a website is, on the spectrum of theft, a much milder concern.


There are no absolutes. Would it be morally wrong for example to mug a billionaire if your children were dying of hunger?

We all know murder is morally indefensible but states murder seemingly with impunity (Israel is currently indulging itself but is far from alone).
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby KeithPratt » 19 May 2021, 13:17

If you are a moral relativist, which I imagine you are, then of course you will say that there are no moral absolutes!

Are there universal morals? I'd say that at a fundamentally base level, yes there are. Societies around the world have evolved in their own distinct terms to have a relative degree of harmony on things such as theft, adultery and murder. There are outliers and exceptions to those, which is understandable given the wide range of evolved societies.

If there are universal morals, then I think that absolute morals can exist.

The liberal conception of the world conceives of "universal human rights". If that universality is achieved, then absolute morals would surely follow.

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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby jimboo » 19 May 2021, 13:23

Morals often go out the window at various degrees on a daily basis. They are unlikely to be the ties that bind. The law is there to define a set of rules that the majority seem to accept.
Of course everything relies on compliance. Without that it all goes to pot , everywhere.
It is a remarkable thing compliance.
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby mudshark » 19 May 2021, 16:51

I'm principally against the death penalty so it would be illogical when I wished the death of anyone. But had the 1932 attempt to poison Hitler and/or any of the umpteen plots to kill Stalin been successful I would have been delighted. I must honestly say that I wish people like Bolsonaro, Erdogan, etc. weren't around. But they would be nobody without their following. I believe that the human race is intrinsically evil and selfish, which is why leaders like the ones I mentioned (and many more) obtain a majority following. Cut the heads of those politicians and, like with the Hydra, up pop a few more. It's pointless to kill them because we get what we deserve anyway, one way or another. It's unavoidable. WWIII is just a matter of time and I just hope I won't be around to witness it. Things are bad enough as they are now, from where I'm sitting.
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby harvey k-tel » 19 May 2021, 17:04

Death is too good for many of these so-called "leaders". Personally, I'd love to put a bullet in one of Donald Trump's knees just to watch him cry.
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby souphound » 19 May 2021, 19:08

harvey k-tel wrote:Death is too good for many of these so-called "leaders". Personally, I'd love to put a bullet in one of Donald Trump's knees just to watch him cry.


He'd probably let you do it too if there was enough money on the table, the rat-fink.
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby der Freiherr » 19 May 2021, 19:58

Rorschach wrote:It strikes me that most people think it's wrong to wish death on someone, no matter how much you hate them.

I don't get it.


Speaking generally, I don't "do" hatred or enemies. Which helps.

Rorschach wrote:In the case of politicians whom you think are bad people and are deliberately making life worse for other people, why wouldn't you want them permanently out of the way? Why do you want them to live?


I don't think it's really necessary to make people "permanently out of the way." And just because I don't actively want someone dead doesn't mean that I want them to live.

Also, I basically agree with this:

mudshark wrote:I must honestly say that I wish people like [insert very bad world leader here], etc. weren't around. But they would be nobody without their following. I believe that the human race is intrinsically evil and selfish, which is why leaders like the ones I mentioned (and many more) obtain a majority following. Cut the heads of those politicians and, like with the Hydra, up pop a few more. It's pointless to kill them because we get what we deserve anyway, one way or another. It's unavoidable.
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby jimboo » 19 May 2021, 20:15

Before I entered witness protection I was less tolerant of dealing with certain people. Now I am just a regular schmuck I have learned tolerance. Mostly it's the best way.
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby Rorschach » 20 May 2021, 08:40

mudshark wrote:I'm principally against the death penalty so it would be illogical when I wished the death of anyone.


I know I haven't made myself very clear on these points but I don't find that illogical at all. I am also totally opposed to the death penalty but it doesn't stop me from wanting certain people to die.
For that matter, I would be horrified if anyone were to blow up the entire 1922 committee. I wouldn't have any sympathy for them but I don't want a world where such things are possible. They may have got away with killing people I consider bad on that occasion, but it could equally be people I consider good on another occasion. I'm all for social order that protects everyone equally, no matter whether I'd like them dead or not.

mudshark wrote:But had the 1932 attempt to poison Hitler and/or any of the umpteen plots to kill Stalin been successful I would have been delighted. I must honestly say that I wish people like Bolsonaro, Erdogan, etc. weren't around. But they would be nobody without their following. I believe that the human race is intrinsically evil and selfish, which is why leaders like the ones I mentioned (and many more) obtain a majority following. Cut the heads of those politicians and, like with the Hydra, up pop a few more. It's pointless to kill them because we get what we deserve anyway, one way or another. It's unavoidable.


I'm undecided on this point but leaning towards disagreeing. For sure there are trends in society that have little to do with the individuals who surf their waves, but I think there are also individuals who act as catalysts.
I feel like a lot of people are not happy with being told to behave in certain ways that they don't want to behave. A lot of people want to make fun of or even oppress people who are different from them, for example. In recent history in the Western democracies, it's been increasingly unacceptable to voice such ideas, to the point where even people who can be reasonable about many things start to bridle at 'wokeness', as if it were the greatest evil in their world.
But I think this type of attitude exists in the background at all times and it's nothing new. Maybe it has grown recently but what has unleashed it as a political force has been people like Trump and even Johnson. They've been using the language of bigotry openly and many people have found it liberating: "He tells it like it is" is code for, "Those are my prejudices too". They feel liberated and relevant and suddenly think it's OK to express themselves in ways that they may have been nervous of doing previously.

I'm not advocating killing the populists for the reasons I stated above, but I don't think things would have played out so badly without them. If they had never existed, the feelings of their supporters would still be there but they may not have felt free to express them.

Maybe.

But anyway, if I were to hear that Johnson, Bolsonara, Erdogan and/or Trump had died, I'd have a drink to celebrate. But just because I loath them; not for any practical political reasons.
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby KeithPratt » 20 May 2021, 09:08

Am I correct in guessing that you were frustrated that the IRA bombing didn't kill Thatcher?

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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby Rorschach » 20 May 2021, 09:52

KeithPratt wrote:Am I correct in guessing that you were frustrated that the IRA bombing didn't kill Thatcher?


No.

Maybe you should read what I just wrote.
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby KeithPratt » 20 May 2021, 10:00

Well, you just wrote

if I were to hear that Johnson, Bolsonara, Erdogan and/or Trump had died, I'd have a drink to celebrate.


So forgive me if my speculation isn't correct.

Is it the manner in which they died that is more important here?

I mean, if Johnson was assassinated, you'd be horrified, but if he died, say, of a heart attack, that wouldn't be such a problem for you?

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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby Rorschach » 20 May 2021, 10:19

KeithPratt wrote:Well, you just wrote

if I were to hear that Johnson, Bolsonara, Erdogan and/or Trump had died, I'd have a drink to celebrate.


So forgive me if my speculation isn't correct.

Is it the manner in which they died that is more important here?

I mean, if Johnson was assassinated, you'd be horrified, but if he died, say, of a heart attack, that wouldn't be such a problem for you?


The last sentence is correct but not for the reasons you seem to think.

If he were assassinated I would not be horrified by his death, but by the act of assassination. I don't want such things going on in the society I live in.

It's all explained in the post above.
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Re: Do you wish death on your enemies?

Postby Samoan » 20 May 2021, 10:37

Rorschach wrote:....

I don't get it.

...

I get that you're a very, very angry person which means you're an extremely scared person.

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