Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
Deebank
Resonator
Posts: 24274
Joined: 10 Oct 2003, 13:47
Location: Insanity filled foxhole

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Deebank » 18 Apr 2021, 19:20

jimboo wrote:
KeithPratt wrote:Of course it's not a simple matter. The UK gambled and it turned out to be a success (so far).

Countries that are risk-taking are generally likely to innovate (that is why there are no EU companies in the top part of the stock market),
.


Is this true? Are you including Anglo Dutch/Swiss / Swedish companies and multinationals as proof of British economic power ?


Until a couple of months ago all British companies were EU companies of course.

I would be interested to know how many of our brave disruptive British through and through innovators are at the top of the list....
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

Paid anghofio fod dy galon yn y chwyldro

User avatar
Jock
Posts: 9376
Joined: 31 Dec 2005, 10:59
Location: Guid aul' Killie

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Jock » 18 Apr 2021, 20:36

KeithPratt wrote:Of course it's not a simple matter. The UK gambled and it turned out to be a success (so far).

Countries that are risk-taking are generally likely to innovate (that is why there are no EU companies in the top part of the stock market), which is why Britain's extrication from the EU is important for the country's future - we are a country that is shown to innovate and when the history of the Covid-19 pandemic is written, the UK's phenomenal genome sequencing ability (we have more capability than the rest of the world put together) will be at the heart of how we reacted to the various mutations.

Many would rather have the soothing balm of the EU, which is totally understandable, but what has happened over the last few months shows that there are different ways of doing things and that the desire to be free of (often very worthwhile) legislation and bureaucracy that being in the EU entails can have rewards just as there are risks being outside too.

What I hope happens is that the political ill will shown to Britain over Brexit subsides over time because, ultimately, it does no-one any favours. A poorer Britain will negatively impact the EU due to the sheer amount of trade between the two entities, just as a richer, more prosperous Britain will benefit the EU.

Success my arse. That's why my employer had to open a warehouse in France. Getting product to the EU is a nightmare. If we got a good Brexit deal he was going to build a new, bigger warehouse and employ more workers. Like I said success my arse.
Always Cheated Never Defeated

User avatar
KeithPratt
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23884
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby KeithPratt » 18 Apr 2021, 20:46

I was talking about the vaccine rollout Jock.

I'm well aware of the extraordinary bureaucracy for a lot of companies with regard to import/export at the moment.

User avatar
Jock
Posts: 9376
Joined: 31 Dec 2005, 10:59
Location: Guid aul' Killie

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Jock » 18 Apr 2021, 20:51

KeithPratt wrote:I was talking about the vaccine rollout Jock.

I'm well aware of the extraordinary bureaucracy for a lot of companies with regard to import/export at the moment.

Ah! I thought you were saying Brexit was a success :?
Always Cheated Never Defeated

User avatar
KeithPratt
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23884
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby KeithPratt » 18 Apr 2021, 20:53

Rorschach wrote:
The depressing things about this are, a) he actually believes this little England jingoistic crap and b) so do a lot of English people.

And that bit about ‘the political Ill will shown to Britain over Brexit’, makes you wonder if he might possibly be a Telegraph reader.



Cambridge Definition of Jingoism

the extreme belief that your own country is always best, often shown in enthusiastic support for a war against another country:

If you think I'm jingoistic about Britain and its relationship with the EU, then I think you need to sit down and actually read what I've said and then come back to me and point out where I have stated this.

In terms of political ill will, I refer you to Ms von der Leyen's track record as European Commissioner so far.

User avatar
Rorschach
Posts: 3090
Joined: 02 Jun 2008, 12:43

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Rorschach » 18 Apr 2021, 21:24

KeithPratt wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
The depressing things about this are, a) he actually believes this little England jingoistic crap and b) so do a lot of English people.

And that bit about ‘the political Ill will shown to Britain over Brexit’, makes you wonder if he might possibly be a Telegraph reader.



Cambridge Definition of Jingoism

the extreme belief that your own country is always best, often shown in enthusiastic support for a war against another country:

If you think I'm jingoistic about Britain and its relationship with the EU, then I think you need to sit down and actually read what I've said and then come back to me and point out where I have stated this.

In terms of political ill will, I refer you to Ms von der Leyen's track record as European Commissioner so far.


Collins' definition of jingoistic (which was the word I actually used):

ADJECTIVE [usually ADJECTIVE noun]
Jingoistic behaviour shows a strong and unreasonable belief in the superiority of your own country.

I think that fairly sums up your words.

Longman's definition:

jin‧go‧is‧m /ˈdʒɪŋɡəʊɪzəm $ -ɡoʊ-/ noun [uncountable]
a strong belief that your own country is better than others – used to show disapproval → nationalism
Bugger off.

User avatar
KeithPratt
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23884
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby KeithPratt » 18 Apr 2021, 22:41

How?

I think Britain is better off outside of the EU for its own future. That doesn't mean that Britain is in any way superior to the EU or the countries within it. There is an element of incompatibility that has made our presence difficult and ultimately, we are now on our own. Personally, I think that von der Leyen made some very bad mistakes earlier this year that showed the problems that can show up in a political structure made up of lots of different countries presided over by an unelected commissioner. The European Union has, on the evidence so far, struggled to operate coherently or efficiently in a crisis, as shown by the Yugoslavian civil war, Greece, the Eurozone crisis and now Covid. That is an analysis that doesn't in any way say "but Britain is better", it's just cold, hard, facts.

I'm pessimistic as to whether the EU has a long-term political future, but that doesn't automatically translate to "oh the stupid EU" or "Britain is best". We're just different. Maybe in time there will be a Europe of Nations rather than a European Union, which might be a better settlement for Britain to participate in.

Britain will make its own glaring errors and mistakes as well, as all governments do.

User avatar
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman
Posts: 17829
Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 14:10
Location: Unrecognized Genius, Me.

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 20 Apr 2021, 11:35

Don't know yet. Will get back on this one.

(BTW Mark Fisher's Capitalist Realism (Zero Books) has an interesting section about Blair and Brown (the whole book is really to be recommended).
On the whole, I'd rather be in Wallenpaupack.

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12758
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Geezee » 29 Apr 2021, 09:58

yomptepi wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
Very clever argument, all those emojis followed by a sarcastic comment. That's got Geezee gripped in the iron jaws of reason.

I think what he says is largely correct. It was pretty certain that the vaccines would be OK but they didn't apply rigorous standards in testing in the UK that they did in other parts of the world. They got away with this time but if they'd been unlucky it could have turned out to be another thalidomide. You know that thalidomide didn't affect the USA, don't you? It never got approval because they required more rigorous testing.

Maybe you wouldn't be laughing so hard if that had happened with the AstraZeneca vaccine, you buffoon.


Which would all be well and good if it weren't for the fact that Europe wasn't hesistant, it simply forgot to order any vaccines. The complete failure of the EU, and the lazy corrupt and smug governments therein in to act quickly has left them looking weak and incompetent.And if you want to argue about trials, then the shortest trial of a similar vaccine should be five years. Do you see those brilliant and cleverer than everyone else eurpean bureaucrats all waiting five years? Are they? No they fucking well are not. They have started jabbing at the first opportunity, as soon as the vaccines that they failed to order arrived. So Geezee's point is utter bollocks , as is your support of it. That is why I have had a vaccine, and you probably won't get yours until after xmas.


I've been away, but there is not one part of my outline that is not true, or at least feel free to point out where i was not and I'd be happy to review. The EU DID buy massive amounts of vaccines - more per capita than the UK. And of course that is nothing at all to be proud of for either country/region - they have bought far more than what either needed (~5 doses per person per country). The US/Canada even worse (Canada prepurchased 9 doses per person). And of course, in doing so, they ensure that they shut off access to countries in emerging markets who are not even able to vaccinate the most vulnerable at this stage. We could - and should - have defeated the pandemic by now (converting it into a fully manageable series of minor epidemics with very low hospitalisation/mortality). But the advanced purchase agreements that the UK and Europe pioneered completely skewed the global response. Absolutely nothing to be proud of for any country in the West, and plenty to be very embarrassed about. But the UK took it a step further by also demanding exclusivity, which meant that they created an export ban of any vaccine from the UK. And of course it then all comes down to luck - AZ (as a complete novice to the vaccine market) had a disastrous development programme and supply chain management for its vaccine, and UK/Europe had thrown their eggs in that basket. US had thrown their eggs with Pfizer/Moderna. US got lucky because the Pfizer/Moderna vaccine results are beyond amazing (and very unexpected given the completely unproven mRNA technologieS); Europe got screwed because a) the AZ vaccine, while highly effective, was so badly managed and b) UK shut off its part of the supply chain for the AZ vaccine (while Europe still exported to the UK as it is meant to be an integrated and inter-dependent supply chain). Europe then switched over to Pfizer/Moderna/JnJ, UK is still largely sticking with AZ and its incredible spaced-out dosing trial.

By all accounts, the UK and Europe will reach herd immunity at around the same time around this summer. Yes, some countries in Europe are at the moment experiencing higher infection rates - but that is only the delayed epidemics that the UK kicked off with at the beginning of the year. If the UK's third wave had started a bit later, it would be just as bad. The UK still has the most disastrous outcomes of the pandemic, both from a health and economic perspective, across these 15 months. Again, plenty of factors go into that, but this sudden "pride" that the UK got this part right is astonishing and highly misrepresented in the UK.
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
KeithPratt
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23884
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby KeithPratt » 29 Apr 2021, 10:18

Yet the UK is forecast to hit, according to various sources, around 5 - 7.8% growth in 2021, faster even than the US with a $3 trillion stimulus package.


https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk- ... ently,(OBR)%20just%204%25.

The latest report from EY ITEM Club - which uses the Treasury model for the UK economy - also suggests that the economy will return to its pre-pandemic level by the second quarter of next year, three months earlier than previously predicted.

Howard Archer, chief economic advisor to the EY ITEM Club, said: "The UK economy has proven to be more resilient than seemed possible at the outset of the pandemic.

"Businesses and consumers have been innovative and flexible in adjusting to COVID-19 restrictions and, while restrictions have caused disruption, lessons learned over the last 12 months have helped minimise the economic impact.

"Our latest forecast suggests that the UK economy will emerge from the pandemic with much less long-term 'scarring' than was originally envisaged and looks set for a strong recovery over the rest of the year and beyond."


The property market is going through the roof at the moment and people are spending money left, right and centre. My wife works in Restaurant PR and this time last year there was a real sense that the hospitality trade was permanently fucked and with it, her business. However, she's busier than she's ever been and her services are hugely in demand from people opening new ventures. There's a real sense here that the economy is about to boom.

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 36162
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby yomptepi » 29 Apr 2021, 10:49

Geezee wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
Very clever argument, all those emojis followed by a sarcastic comment. That's got Geezee gripped in the iron jaws of reason.

I think what he says is largely correct. It was pretty certain that the vaccines would be OK but they didn't apply rigorous standards in testing in the UK that they did in other parts of the world. They got away with this time but if they'd been unlucky it could have turned out to be another thalidomide. You know that thalidomide didn't affect the USA, don't you? It never got approval because they required more rigorous testing.

Maybe you wouldn't be laughing so hard if that had happened with the AstraZeneca vaccine, you buffoon.


Which would all be well and good if it weren't for the fact that Europe wasn't hesistant, it simply forgot to order any vaccines. The complete failure of the EU, and the lazy corrupt and smug governments therein in to act quickly has left them looking weak and incompetent.And if you want to argue about trials, then the shortest trial of a similar vaccine should be five years. Do you see those brilliant and cleverer than everyone else eurpean bureaucrats all waiting five years? Are they? No they fucking well are not. They have started jabbing at the first opportunity, as soon as the vaccines that they failed to order arrived. So Geezee's point is utter bollocks , as is your support of it. That is why I have had a vaccine, and you probably won't get yours until after xmas.


I've been away, but there is not one part of my outline that is not true, or at least feel free to point out where i was not and I'd be happy to review. The EU DID buy massive amounts of vaccines - more per capita than the UK. And of course that is nothing at all to be proud of for either country/region - they have bought far more than what either needed (~5 doses per person per country). The US/Canada even worse (Canada prepurchased 9 doses per person). And of course, in doing so, they ensure that they shut off access to countries in emerging markets who are not even able to vaccinate the most vulnerable at this stage. We could - and should - have defeated the pandemic by now (converting it into a fully manageable series of minor epidemics with very low hospitalisation/mortality). But the advanced purchase agreements that the UK and Europe pioneered completely skewed the global response. Absolutely nothing to be proud of for any country in the West, and plenty to be very embarrassed about. But the UK took it a step further by also demanding exclusivity, which meant that they created an export ban of any vaccine from the UK. And of course it then all comes down to luck - AZ (as a complete novice to the vaccine market) had a disastrous development programme and supply chain management for its vaccine, and UK/Europe had thrown their eggs in that basket. US had thrown their eggs with Pfizer/Moderna. US got lucky because the Pfizer/Moderna vaccine results are beyond amazing (and very unexpected given the completely unproven mRNA technologieS); Europe got screwed because a) the AZ vaccine, while highly effective, was so badly managed and b) UK shut off its part of the supply chain for the AZ vaccine (while Europe still exported to the UK as it is meant to be an integrated and inter-dependent supply chain). Europe then switched over to Pfizer/Moderna/JnJ, UK is still largely sticking with AZ and its incredible spaced-out dosing trial.

By all accounts, the UK and Europe will reach herd immunity at around the same time around this summer. Yes, some countries in Europe are at the moment experiencing higher infection rates - but that is only the delayed epidemics that the UK kicked off with at the beginning of the year. If the UK's third wave had started a bit later, it would be just as bad. The UK still has the most disastrous outcomes of the pandemic, both from a health and economic perspective, across these 15 months. Again, plenty of factors go into that, but this sudden "pride" that the UK got this part right is astonishing and highly misrepresented in the UK.


Where do you get your information from? Honestly I despair. I suggest you apply for a job in the hyper bureaucratic, hyper bullshit Eu parliament, where I am sure they will appreciate your commitment to dishonestly representing facts. You live in a dream world.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 69276
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Diamond Dog » 29 Apr 2021, 11:30

KeithPratt wrote:Yet the UK is forecast to hit, according to various sources, around 5 - 7.8% growth in 2021, faster even than the US with a $3 trillion stimulus package.

The property market is going through the roof at the moment and people are spending money left, right and centre. My wife works in Restaurant PR and this time last year there was a real sense that the hospitality trade was permanently fucked and with it, her business. However, she's busier than she's ever been and her services are hugely in demand from people opening new ventures. There's a real sense here that the economy is about to boom.


Of course, it's rather easier to show larger recovery figures if you've decimated your own economy far more than other comparable countries - which is exactly what the Govt managed to do. Along with having one of the highest per capita deaths from CVOD.

Some recovery that.
I have put the ignorant, inflammatory bore on ignore.

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 36162
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby yomptepi » 29 Apr 2021, 12:05

Diamond Dog wrote:
KeithPratt wrote:Yet the UK is forecast to hit, according to various sources, around 5 - 7.8% growth in 2021, faster even than the US with a $3 trillion stimulus package.

The property market is going through the roof at the moment and people are spending money left, right and centre. My wife works in Restaurant PR and this time last year there was a real sense that the hospitality trade was permanently fucked and with it, her business. However, she's busier than she's ever been and her services are hugely in demand from people opening new ventures. There's a real sense here that the economy is about to boom.


Of course, it's rather easier to show larger recovery figures if you've decimated your own economy far more than other comparable countries - which is exactly what the Govt managed to do. Along with having one of the highest per capita deaths from CVOD.

Some recovery that.


I am not sure that is true. France inparticular has shadowed the uk in nearly every aspect of the pandemic, with the exception of the Frenchies being far more hostile to the vaccine. I think the logical conclusion is that this is a viral pandemic, and borders mean nothing. That people are all the same. We all resist having our lives controlled, and will from time to disobey the dictats of government. So until the vaccine acieves high enough levels, then we will get new waves of infection. Look how bullish Modi was in India, only to have the whole thing blow up again and decimate the population. Trying to turn the pandemic into some kind of premier league is absurd and pointless. Once the dust settles and the real figures on excess deaths are revealed ( the only real way to count how rapacious the virus has been) , I feel confident that we will see a fairly even distribution of both deaths and economic destruction.The idea that the UK is doing any worse than most EU nations is just wishful thinking on your part. A bit like believing Everton are the best club in the premiere league. It is just a fantasy that fits your political thinking.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Deebank
Resonator
Posts: 24274
Joined: 10 Oct 2003, 13:47
Location: Insanity filled foxhole

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Deebank » 29 Apr 2021, 12:09

Geezee wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
Very clever argument, all those emojis followed by a sarcastic comment. That's got Geezee gripped in the iron jaws of reason.

I think what he says is largely correct. It was pretty certain that the vaccines would be OK but they didn't apply rigorous standards in testing in the UK that they did in other parts of the world. They got away with this time but if they'd been unlucky it could have turned out to be another thalidomide. You know that thalidomide didn't affect the USA, don't you? It never got approval because they required more rigorous testing.

Maybe you wouldn't be laughing so hard if that had happened with the AstraZeneca vaccine, you buffoon.


Which would all be well and good if it weren't for the fact that Europe wasn't hesistant, it simply forgot to order any vaccines. The complete failure of the EU, and the lazy corrupt and smug governments therein in to act quickly has left them looking weak and incompetent.And if you want to argue about trials, then the shortest trial of a similar vaccine should be five years. Do you see those brilliant and cleverer than everyone else eurpean bureaucrats all waiting five years? Are they? No they fucking well are not. They have started jabbing at the first opportunity, as soon as the vaccines that they failed to order arrived. So Geezee's point is utter bollocks , as is your support of it. That is why I have had a vaccine, and you probably won't get yours until after xmas.


I've been away, but there is not one part of my outline that is not true, or at least feel free to point out where i was not and I'd be happy to review. The EU DID buy massive amounts of vaccines - more per capita than the UK. And of course that is nothing at all to be proud of for either country/region - they have bought far more than what either needed (~5 doses per person per country). The US/Canada even worse (Canada prepurchased 9 doses per person). And of course, in doing so, they ensure that they shut off access to countries in emerging markets who are not even able to vaccinate the most vulnerable at this stage. We could - and should - have defeated the pandemic by now (converting it into a fully manageable series of minor epidemics with very low hospitalisation/mortality). But the advanced purchase agreements that the UK and Europe pioneered completely skewed the global response. Absolutely nothing to be proud of for any country in the West, and plenty to be very embarrassed about. But the UK took it a step further by also demanding exclusivity, which meant that they created an export ban of any vaccine from the UK. And of course it then all comes down to luck - AZ (as a complete novice to the vaccine market) had a disastrous development programme and supply chain management for its vaccine, and UK/Europe had thrown their eggs in that basket. US had thrown their eggs with Pfizer/Moderna. US got lucky because the Pfizer/Moderna vaccine results are beyond amazing (and very unexpected given the completely unproven mRNA technologieS); Europe got screwed because a) the AZ vaccine, while highly effective, was so badly managed and b) UK shut off its part of the supply chain for the AZ vaccine (while Europe still exported to the UK as it is meant to be an integrated and inter-dependent supply chain). Europe then switched over to Pfizer/Moderna/JnJ, UK is still largely sticking with AZ and its incredible spaced-out dosing trial.

By all accounts, the UK and Europe will reach herd immunity at around the same time around this summer. Yes, some countries in Europe are at the moment experiencing higher infection rates - but that is only the delayed epidemics that the UK kicked off with at the beginning of the year. If the UK's third wave had started a bit later, it would be just as bad. The UK still has the most disastrous outcomes of the pandemic, both from a health and economic perspective, across these 15 months. Again, plenty of factors go into that, but this sudden "pride" that the UK got this part right is astonishing and highly misrepresented in the UK.



Yes, it's more a case that they didn't manage to completely fuck the vaccine roll-out up like they did everything else during the pandemic.
It's hard to see what there is to be proud of.
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

Paid anghofio fod dy galon yn y chwyldro

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12758
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Geezee » 29 Apr 2021, 12:20

yomptepi wrote:
Geezee wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Which would all be well and good if it weren't for the fact that Europe wasn't hesistant, it simply forgot to order any vaccines. The complete failure of the EU, and the lazy corrupt and smug governments therein in to act quickly has left them looking weak and incompetent.And if you want to argue about trials, then the shortest trial of a similar vaccine should be five years. Do you see those brilliant and cleverer than everyone else eurpean bureaucrats all waiting five years? Are they? No they fucking well are not. They have started jabbing at the first opportunity, as soon as the vaccines that they failed to order arrived. So Geezee's point is utter bollocks , as is your support of it. That is why I have had a vaccine, and you probably won't get yours until after xmas.


I've been away, but there is not one part of my outline that is not true, or at least feel free to point out where i was not and I'd be happy to review. The EU DID buy massive amounts of vaccines - more per capita than the UK. And of course that is nothing at all to be proud of for either country/region - they have bought far more than what either needed (~5 doses per person per country). The US/Canada even worse (Canada prepurchased 9 doses per person). And of course, in doing so, they ensure that they shut off access to countries in emerging markets who are not even able to vaccinate the most vulnerable at this stage. We could - and should - have defeated the pandemic by now (converting it into a fully manageable series of minor epidemics with very low hospitalisation/mortality). But the advanced purchase agreements that the UK and Europe pioneered completely skewed the global response. Absolutely nothing to be proud of for any country in the West, and plenty to be very embarrassed about. But the UK took it a step further by also demanding exclusivity, which meant that they created an export ban of any vaccine from the UK. And of course it then all comes down to luck - AZ (as a complete novice to the vaccine market) had a disastrous development programme and supply chain management for its vaccine, and UK/Europe had thrown their eggs in that basket. US had thrown their eggs with Pfizer/Moderna. US got lucky because the Pfizer/Moderna vaccine results are beyond amazing (and very unexpected given the completely unproven mRNA technologieS); Europe got screwed because a) the AZ vaccine, while highly effective, was so badly managed and b) UK shut off its part of the supply chain for the AZ vaccine (while Europe still exported to the UK as it is meant to be an integrated and inter-dependent supply chain). Europe then switched over to Pfizer/Moderna/JnJ, UK is still largely sticking with AZ and its incredible spaced-out dosing trial.

By all accounts, the UK and Europe will reach herd immunity at around the same time around this summer. Yes, some countries in Europe are at the moment experiencing higher infection rates - but that is only the delayed epidemics that the UK kicked off with at the beginning of the year. If the UK's third wave had started a bit later, it would be just as bad. The UK still has the most disastrous outcomes of the pandemic, both from a health and economic perspective, across these 15 months. Again, plenty of factors go into that, but this sudden "pride" that the UK got this part right is astonishing and highly misrepresented in the UK.


Where do you get your information from? Honestly I despair. I suggest you apply for a job in the hyper bureaucratic, hyper bullshit Eu parliament, where I am sure they will appreciate your commitment to dishonestly representing facts. You live in a dream world.



I work for the company and lead the division that provides the UK's government's core COVID19 vaccination data.
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12758
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Geezee » 29 Apr 2021, 12:21

Diamond Dog wrote:
KeithPratt wrote:Yet the UK is forecast to hit, according to various sources, around 5 - 7.8% growth in 2021, faster even than the US with a $3 trillion stimulus package.

The property market is going through the roof at the moment and people are spending money left, right and centre. My wife works in Restaurant PR and this time last year there was a real sense that the hospitality trade was permanently fucked and with it, her business. However, she's busier than she's ever been and her services are hugely in demand from people opening new ventures. There's a real sense here that the economy is about to boom.


Of course, it's rather easier to show larger recovery figures if you've decimated your own economy far more than other comparable countries - which is exactly what the Govt managed to do. Along with having one of the highest per capita deaths from CVOD.

Some recovery that.


Exactly. My god. Growth figures mean nothing in this context!
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 69276
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Diamond Dog » 29 Apr 2021, 12:25

yomptepi wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
KeithPratt wrote:Yet the UK is forecast to hit, according to various sources, around 5 - 7.8% growth in 2021, faster even than the US with a $3 trillion stimulus package.

The property market is going through the roof at the moment and people are spending money left, right and centre. My wife works in Restaurant PR and this time last year there was a real sense that the hospitality trade was permanently fucked and with it, her business. However, she's busier than she's ever been and her services are hugely in demand from people opening new ventures. There's a real sense here that the economy is about to boom.


Of course, it's rather easier to show larger recovery figures if you've decimated your own economy far more than other comparable countries - which is exactly what the Govt managed to do. Along with having one of the highest per capita deaths from CVOD.

Some recovery that.


I am not sure that is true.


I stopped reading right there.
I have put the ignorant, inflammatory bore on ignore.

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12758
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Geezee » 29 Apr 2021, 12:26

yomptepi wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
KeithPratt wrote:Yet the UK is forecast to hit, according to various sources, around 5 - 7.8% growth in 2021, faster even than the US with a $3 trillion stimulus package.

The property market is going through the roof at the moment and people are spending money left, right and centre. My wife works in Restaurant PR and this time last year there was a real sense that the hospitality trade was permanently fucked and with it, her business. However, she's busier than she's ever been and her services are hugely in demand from people opening new ventures. There's a real sense here that the economy is about to boom.


Of course, it's rather easier to show larger recovery figures if you've decimated your own economy far more than other comparable countries - which is exactly what the Govt managed to do. Along with having one of the highest per capita deaths from CVOD.

Some recovery that.


I am not sure that is true. France inparticular has shadowed the uk in nearly every aspect of the pandemic, with the exception of the Frenchies being far more hostile to the vaccine. I think the logical conclusion is that this is a viral pandemic, and borders mean nothing. That people are all the same. We all resist having our lives controlled, and will from time to disobey the dictats of government. So until the vaccine acieves high enough levels, then we will get new waves of infection. Look how bullish Modi was in India, only to have the whole thing blow up again and decimate the population. Trying to turn the pandemic into some kind of premier league is absurd and pointless. Once the dust settles and the real figures on excess deaths are revealed ( the only real way to count how rapacious the virus has been) , I feel confident that we will see a fairly even distribution of both deaths and economic destruction.The idea that the UK is doing any worse than most EU nations is just wishful thinking on your part. A bit like believing Everton are the best club in the premiere league. It is just a fantasy that fits your political thinking.


I agree that overall it is almost impossible to select "winners or losers". Sweden pursued one strategy, Poland one strategy, Germany another and there is precious little to show that one has proved more successful versus another. What I'm trying to point out is that the UK is by no standard a "winner" here, including in its vaccination rollout, or that Europe by comparison "failed".
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 36162
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby yomptepi » 29 Apr 2021, 13:01

I agree. It is no surprise that no one has come out of this covered in glory, as no one had any idea what to do, and we were completely unprepared. ( and that is EVERYONE , Pete) What bores me is the Corbynist fringe trying to make out that the only place in the world where anyone has died is here in the uk. And the same wirh aquring PPE and vaccines. Everyone has struggled and everyone has been found wanting. And despite these dim witted claims that the British government helped spread the virus deliberately, and that all their efforts to buy vaccines and ppe were little more than ways to make their mates rich, no one has done any better. I follow Euronews and France today, and the story is the same across europe and across America. It was a massive bun fight for resources and medicine, and in the end we were all failed by the lack of preparedness of our governments. Despite what Pete says, it was not a tory conspiracy, old peoples homes were not Tory death camps, and the UK is not the worst affected by this pandemic. I might also point out that it could well be a long way from being over.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12758
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Geezee » 29 Apr 2021, 13:32

China is the country that stands out. It literally makes no sense what has happened there. And I do not believe in any kind of conspiracy around this, but to this day i do not understand how a) they were able to control the epidemic so quickly and b) maintain absolutely negligible numbers for so long. The standard response is that their lockdowns have been strict, zero privacy, track and trace, more experience from SARS etc - still does not explain it. Plenty of countries have had stricter lockdowns and still had much bigger outbreaks, China's healthcare system is OK but not at all great once you get out of the Tier 1 cities, you have massive, sprawling urban centres, migratory populations, and testing in the early days was at best 60-70% accurate. Anyway, severely off-topic but remains a curiosity.
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON