Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Rorschach
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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Rorschach » 04 May 2021, 10:47

yomptepi wrote:
As always, you have not replied to my comments. preffering instaed to go off on some random rant which complaetely misses the point of everything I said. You really are the Owen Jones of BCB Pete.


What are you talking about? He has replied to your comments.
You claim, somewhat ridiculously, that very little could have been done and he's pointed a lot of things that could have been done that weren't.

He did miss this gem though:
yomptepi wrote: ...it is an airbourne virus, everyone got it,


No, everyone didn't get it. Not even nearly everyone. And it could have been far less people if other policies had been pursued.

And another thing!
Four spelling mistakes/typos just in the little bits I've quoted. Shape up old bear.
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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby KeithPratt » 04 May 2021, 10:51

Geezee wrote:
It's also worth bearing in mind that the zero tolerance approach to risk means that they also are left far more vulnerable to any outbreak - these countries are also some of the slowest with vaccine rollouts, which means even a small outbreak through the rest of 2021 leads to a complete shut down of the economy again.



This is the most reasonable comment on this thread. Essentially, whatever positive outcome some countries had at the start of the Pandemic, they will most likely be affected at some point during it.

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yomptepi
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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby yomptepi » 04 May 2021, 13:17

Rorschach wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
As always, you have not replied to my comments. preffering instaed to go off on some random rant which complaetely misses the point of everything I said. You really are the Owen Jones of BCB Pete.


What are you talking about? He has replied to your comments.
You claim, somewhat ridiculously, that very little could have been done and he's pointed a lot of things that could have been done that weren't.

He did miss this gem though:
yomptepi wrote: ...it is an airbourne virus, everyone got it,


No, everyone didn't get it. Not even nearly everyone. And it could have been far less people if other policies had been pursued.

And another thing!
Four spelling mistakes/typos just in the little bits I've quoted. Shape up old bear.


By everyone, I was talking about countries rather than individuals. As you well know. And it could have been less people who got it, but look at how large swathes of the population behaved. Warehouse parties, dinner parties ( as attended by the former Labour leader, although of course the rules don't apply to him as he is from the metropolitan elite.) Protest marches, raves, and so on. Of course it could have been better handled, but in reality, very few have actually handled it any better, and the discrepancies in the counting methods make a nonsense of the whole league tables of who did well. It was a shitstorm everywhere. Macron is getting just as much shit as Boris for his failings, and I am sure the Spanish PM and the Italian PM are getting the same. In Pete's world, in Britain under a tory government, we are always going to worst at everything, no matter what the statistics say.
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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Geezee » 04 May 2021, 13:34

Deebank wrote: Admittedly Johnson didn't fuck up the vaccine but that is about it as far as the good news goes.


Oh he most certainly did. I suspect that the UK's dosing strategy (taking a strict, proven and well-studied 3-week dosing regimen and throwing it out the window in favour of a reckless, potentially completely counter-productive 3-month window), irrespective of whether it is proven to work or not, will be seen in the history of the pandemic as perhaps the most jaw-dropping, irresponsible and anti-science decisions that any country has ever taken, taken upon its entire population, and remarkable how little resistance we've seen from it. This is literally how you create new, more virulent strains of a virus in a laboratory setting - you give them the first dose, and then delay the 2nd dose to give it a chance to recover and adapt into a mutant, more powerful strain (in controlled conditions, of course). That may or may not happen here of course, but completely in-line with the messy incompetence of how Johnson has handled the entire pandemic.
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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby yomptepi » 04 May 2021, 13:56

Geezee wrote:
Deebank wrote: Admittedly Johnson didn't fuck up the vaccine but that is about it as far as the good news goes.


Oh he most certainly did. I suspect that the UK's dosing strategy (taking a strict, proven and well-studied 3-week dosing regimen and throwing it out the window in favour of a reckless, potentially completely counter-productive 3-month window), irrespective of whether it is proven to work or not, will be seen in the history of the pandemic as perhaps the most jaw-dropping, irresponsible and anti-science decisions that any country has ever taken, taken upon its entire population, and remarkable how little resistance we've seen from it. This is literally how you create new, more virulent strains of a virus in a laboratory setting - you give them the first dose, and then delay the 2nd dose to give it a chance to recover and adapt into a mutant, more powerful strain (in controlled conditions, of course). That may or may not happen here of course, but completely in-line with the messy incompetence of how Johnson has handled the entire pandemic.


The implication here being that they took decision with out any consultation or advice from experts and manufacturers. That Johnson took this decision on his own without thought for the consequences, entirely unscientifically. Whilst that is possible, it is also unlikely.
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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby der Freiherr » 04 May 2021, 14:04

yomptepi wrote:
Geezee wrote:
Deebank wrote: Admittedly Johnson didn't fuck up the vaccine but that is about it as far as the good news goes.


Oh he most certainly did. I suspect that the UK's dosing strategy (taking a strict, proven and well-studied 3-week dosing regimen and throwing it out the window in favour of a reckless, potentially completely counter-productive 3-month window), irrespective of whether it is proven to work or not, will be seen in the history of the pandemic as perhaps the most jaw-dropping, irresponsible and anti-science decisions that any country has ever taken, taken upon its entire population, and remarkable how little resistance we've seen from it. This is literally how you create new, more virulent strains of a virus in a laboratory setting - you give them the first dose, and then delay the 2nd dose to give it a chance to recover and adapt into a mutant, more powerful strain (in controlled conditions, of course). That may or may not happen here of course, but completely in-line with the messy incompetence of how Johnson has handled the entire pandemic.


The implication here being that they took decision with out any consultation or advice from experts and manufacturers. That Johnson took this decision on his own without thought for the consequences, entirely unscientifically. Whilst that is possible, it is also unlikely.


It seems highly likely to me that he consulted experts, was told of potential consequences, and said ... "fuck it"
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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby The Prof » 04 May 2021, 14:53

Yomp, just clutching at any kind of straw to "prove" that Johnson is OK really. It's pathetic.

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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Deebank » 04 May 2021, 15:41

der Freiherr wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Geezee wrote:
Oh he most certainly did. I suspect that the UK's dosing strategy (taking a strict, proven and well-studied 3-week dosing regimen and throwing it out the window in favour of a reckless, potentially completely counter-productive 3-month window), irrespective of whether it is proven to work or not, will be seen in the history of the pandemic as perhaps the most jaw-dropping, irresponsible and anti-science decisions that any country has ever taken, taken upon its entire population, and remarkable how little resistance we've seen from it. This is literally how you create new, more virulent strains of a virus in a laboratory setting - you give them the first dose, and then delay the 2nd dose to give it a chance to recover and adapt into a mutant, more powerful strain (in controlled conditions, of course). That may or may not happen here of course, but completely in-line with the messy incompetence of how Johnson has handled the entire pandemic.


The implication here being that they took decision with out any consultation or advice from experts and manufacturers. That Johnson took this decision on his own without thought for the consequences, entirely unscientifically. Whilst that is possible, it is also unlikely.


It seems highly likely to me that he consulted experts, was told of potential consequences, and said ... "fuck it"



That was demonstrably the case when it came to lock downs No 1 and 2.
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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Deebank » 04 May 2021, 16:22

Johnson and Trump both gambled that the virus would go away. The difference is that Johnson U-turned when the scientists (and Dom?) convinced him that he needed to get his finger out - better late than never. Trump continued playing it down and doing very little of course.

If you check the stats I posted above, the death rates correlate very closely to how much early effort the country made.
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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Deebank » 04 May 2021, 16:25

The Prof wrote:Yomp, just clutching at any kind of straw to "prove" that Johnson is OK really. It's pathetic.


I know I keep repeating myself but for someone regularly incandescent with rage when other journalists lie and make up quotes he seems very comfortable with Johnson's behaviour. :?
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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Diamond Dog » 04 May 2021, 18:32

...............
I have put the ignorant, inflammatory bore on ignore.

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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Diamond Dog » 04 May 2021, 18:36

Rorschach wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
As always, you have not replied to my comments. preffering instaed to go off on some random rant which complaetely misses the point of everything I said. You really are the Owen Jones of BCB Pete.


What are you talking about? He has replied to your comments.
You claim, somewhat ridiculously, that very little could have been done and he's pointed a lot of things that could have been done that weren't.

He did miss this gem though:
yomptepi wrote: ...it is an airbourne virus, everyone got it,


No, everyone didn't get it. Not even nearly everyone. And it could have been far less people if other policies had been pursued.




Thank you Tym.

Everyone else can see that I answered everything and gave numerous examples of where Johnson fucked up - but Michael, as always, cannot see beyond the infallibility of his hero Johnson and just blusters on with bullshit and outright lies, regardless.

And for the record I didn't miss the bit about 'airborne virus' I actually quoted it.
I have put the ignorant, inflammatory bore on ignore.

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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Diamond Dog » 04 May 2021, 18:39

yomptepi wrote:In Pete's world, in Britain under a tory government, we are always going to worst at everything, no matter what the statistics say.


Do you remember me posting on Facebook, minutes after the Press Conference, that (much as it pained me) Johnson appeared to have got the 'roadmap out of lockdown' including the five weekly steps EXACTLY right?

No - you wouldn't. Because it doesn't fit your lazy, illogical, bullshit narrative.
I have put the ignorant, inflammatory bore on ignore.

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Re: Rate the last 5 UK Prime Ministers

Postby Diamond Dog » 04 May 2021, 19:54

yomptepi wrote:
Geezee wrote:
Deebank wrote: Admittedly Johnson didn't fuck up the vaccine but that is about it as far as the good news goes.


Oh he most certainly did. I suspect that the UK's dosing strategy (taking a strict, proven and well-studied 3-week dosing regimen and throwing it out the window in favour of a reckless, potentially completely counter-productive 3-month window), irrespective of whether it is proven to work or not, will be seen in the history of the pandemic as perhaps the most jaw-dropping, irresponsible and anti-science decisions that any country has ever taken, taken upon its entire population, and remarkable how little resistance we've seen from it. This is literally how you create new, more virulent strains of a virus in a laboratory setting - you give them the first dose, and then delay the 2nd dose to give it a chance to recover and adapt into a mutant, more powerful strain (in controlled conditions, of course). That may or may not happen here of course, but completely in-line with the messy incompetence of how Johnson has handled the entire pandemic.


The implication here being that they took decision with out any consultation or advice from experts and manufacturers. That Johnson took this decision on his own without thought for the consequences, entirely unscientifically. Whilst that is possible, it is also unlikely.


The companies themselves said they believed the best regime was what was originally set out. His own SAGE team reiterated that advice.

Good grief.
I have put the ignorant, inflammatory bore on ignore.