The Culture War

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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KeithPratt
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Re: The Culture War

Postby KeithPratt » 07 Apr 2021, 09:45

Is the move by the Conservative party to start using the Union Jack again cynical?

Yes, obviously. This is the Conservative party - arguably the most ruthlessly cynical party in political history and easily the most successful (the two obviously being linked). However, it would be a bit short-sighted to say that this is new territory for them and that somehow they aren't being themselves with such a move. The Tories will not be beating themselves up like sections of the Labour party will be if they decide to re-assert a more nationalist identity.

The strength of the Union has always been a core part of Conservative, One Nation orientated policy and I'd say that this is a re-assertion of a traditional perspective after years of more Liberal values being pushed to the fore. David Cameron made no bones about the fact that he was a liberal conservative just as Boris is deep down too. However, the party was elected on a manifesto to deliver a promise on Brexit and with that comes a push for a British identity that is not subsumed to a wider European one. What does that look like in reality? It means Britain having to assert itself and being proud of what it is, which is a trading country with a global outlook. That is why places like Hartlepool are voting Conservative, because there isn't another party that is doing that. I understand the hesitancy around the flag, but if you cannot assert some sort of pride in the country you live in, things can become very difficult .

In terms of the culture war, I think there is time for a push back. For me, the BLM activism of the last year or so shows what could be considered a difficult issue the influence of American politics has on Britain. We share a language and a culture, so therefore we unwittingly import American political thinking much more readily than say France or Germany. However, the riots and protests caused by the death of George Floyd last year had no real meaningful connection to Britain and yet people protested. The experience and settlement of race relations and the Civil Rights issue, alongside police brutality is not the same as the experience of ethnic minorities in the UK.

Sure, people without doubt experience racism, but the "black experience" of slavery, sustained segregation and legal discrimination in the US is not the same as here, where people immigrated from Dominions that had been part of the British Empire. That's a very simple explanation and there is a whole load of other detail that one could ponder on and I don't mean to whitewash (sic) the racism experienced by people in the UK at all, but my point is that it's different. It is not the same as the US and we should be extremely careful when thinking about these issues.

Why is that important? The culture war has opposing sides - one side, left-orientated, suggests structural issues of power that are embodied deep in ALL societies. The other side suggests that each society is manifestly unique because of history, geography, culture and language and that its issues are unique to itself. To apply a wide-ranging, universal philosophy is destructive because it ignores the difficult fact that every society has complex issues that cannot be easily be resolved or indeed solved at all. Compromises must be made.

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Re: The Culture War

Postby yomptepi » 07 Apr 2021, 10:48

The Prof wrote:The Union flag used to be the emblem of far right. Extremists on the lunatic fringe. Now that's all changed. Errr....


I think that is true of every country. Look at Scotland. Half the cunts are roving the streets wrapped in flags and shouting about how much they hate the English. Flags go hand in hand with nationalism and radicalism.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby Diamond Dog » 07 Apr 2021, 15:26

KeithPratt wrote:
In terms of the culture war, I think there is time for a push back. For me, the BLM activism of the last year or so shows what could be considered a difficult issue the influence of American politics has on Britain. We share a language and a culture, so therefore we unwittingly import American political thinking much more readily than say France or Germany. However, the riots and protests caused by the death of George Floyd last year had no real meaningful connection to Britain and yet people protested. The experience and settlement of race relations and the Civil Rights issue, alongside police brutality is not the same as the experience of ethnic minorities in the UK.



And yet there were demonstrations in many countries besides the UK, many of which were non English speaking, and certainly do not share a 'culture' with either the USA or the UK.

Which kind of pisses on your parade.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby jimboo » 07 Apr 2021, 17:45

. Is the move by the Conservative party to start using the Union Jack again cynical?

Yes, obviously. This is the Conservative party - arguably the most ruthlessly cynical party in political history and easily the most successful (the two obviously being linked). However, it would be a bit short-sighted to say that this is new territory for them and that somehow they aren't being themselves with such a move. The Tories will not be beating themselves up like sections of the Labour party will be if they decide to re-assert a more nationalist identity.

The strength of the Union has always been a core part of Conservative, One Nation orientated policy and I'd say that this is a re-assertion of a traditional perspective after years of more Liberal values being pushed to the fore.


Oh Toby. The state of the Union and the one nation Tory groove you speak of doesn't and hasn't existed for decades. Jesus man . They rally round a flag, concept and bond that they have done more than any party to destroy.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby Deebank » 07 Apr 2021, 18:12

jimboo wrote:
. Is the move by the Conservative party to start using the Union Jack again cynical?

Yes, obviously. This is the Conservative party - arguably the most ruthlessly cynical party in political history and easily the most successful (the two obviously being linked). However, it would be a bit short-sighted to say that this is new territory for them and that somehow they aren't being themselves with such a move. The Tories will not be beating themselves up like sections of the Labour party will be if they decide to re-assert a more nationalist identity.

The strength of the Union has always been a core part of Conservative, One Nation orientated policy and I'd say that this is a re-assertion of a traditional perspective after years of more Liberal values being pushed to the fore.


Oh Toby. The state of the Union and the one nation Tory groove you speak of doesn't and hasn't existed for decades. Jesus man . They rally round a flag, concept and bond that they have done more than any party to destroy.


So true. This is the same Conservative and Unionist Party that has done more than any other organisation (SNP, Plaid and Sinn Fein included) to break up the United Kingdom, almost single handedly (plus UKIP I suppose) making the destruction of the UK just a matter of time. They must be so proud. I'm just glad I don't give a shit :lol:

Perhaps I can get a Welsh passport :?
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Re: The Culture War

Postby Jock » 07 Apr 2021, 18:39

yomptepi wrote:
The Prof wrote:The Union flag used to be the emblem of far right. Extremists on the lunatic fringe. Now that's all changed. Errr....


I think that is true of every country. Look at Scotland. Half the cunts are roving the streets wrapped in flags and shouting about how much they hate the English. Flags go hand in hand with nationalism and radicalism.

Fuck off Yomp. You know that isn't true.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby yomptepi » 07 Apr 2021, 19:57

Jock wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
The Prof wrote:The Union flag used to be the emblem of far right. Extremists on the lunatic fringe. Now that's all changed. Errr....


I think that is true of every country. Look at Scotland. Half the cunts are roving the streets wrapped in flags and shouting about how much they hate the English. Flags go hand in hand with nationalism and radicalism.

Fuck off Yomp. You know that isn't true.



It's not true that there are now two ultra nationalist parties and their entire agenda is to separate from the hated English? So that is not true? And is it also true that the streets of the major cities are draped in the Scottish flag, with random demonstrations against the English at regular intervals. I am not so sure. It looks pretty hostile from here.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby jimboo » 07 Apr 2021, 20:06

Well you could say that there are English people draped in flags who are glad they are free of the hated Europeans with random demonstrations against the world and demanding freedom from err, freedoms! If you are not English in England that looks and feels pretty fucking hostile too from where i'm standing. You carry on projecting what is happening as a feeling that the English excel at.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby Jock » 07 Apr 2021, 21:50

yomptepi wrote:
Jock wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
I think that is true of every country. Look at Scotland. Half the cunts are roving the streets wrapped in flags and shouting about how much they hate the English. Flags go hand in hand with nationalism and radicalism.

Fuck off Yomp. You know that isn't true.



It's not true that there are now two ultra nationalist parties and their entire agenda is to separate from the hated English? So that is not true? And is it also true that the streets of the major cities are draped in the Scottish flag, with random demonstrations against the English at regular intervals. I am not so sure. It looks pretty hostile from here.

Nonsense. I doubt there's even a town in Ayrshire draped in Scottish flags and definitely no demonstrations at regular intervals. You watch too much of the BBC news. And as for hating the English. Get a life
Last edited by Jock on 07 Apr 2021, 22:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby Jock » 07 Apr 2021, 21:51

jimboo wrote:Well you could say that there are English people draped in flags who are glad they are free of the hated Europeans with random demonstrations against the world and demanding freedom from err, freedoms! If you are not English in England that looks and feels pretty fucking hostile too from where i'm standing. You carry on projecting what is happening as a feeling that the English excel at.

Spot on.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby Jimbly » 07 Apr 2021, 22:10

yomptepi wrote:
Jock wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
I think that is true of every country. Look at Scotland. Half the cunts are roving the streets wrapped in flags and shouting about how much they hate the English. Flags go hand in hand with nationalism and radicalism.

Fuck off Yomp. You know that isn't true.



It's not true that there are now two ultra nationalist parties and their entire agenda is to separate from the hated English? So that is not true? And is it also true that the streets of the major cities are draped in the Scottish flag, with random demonstrations against the English at regular intervals. I am not so sure. It looks pretty hostile from here.


Loads of pish there Mikel. There is one Nationalist party and a Vanity Party for a discredited Ego Mainiac. The agenda is to separate from the hated UK Government not the English people. Streets in Glasgow aren't draped with any flags in general.

The only flags are generally on town or city halls. I've no idea about any random demonstrations against the English.

Given that neither Jock or myself are SNP supporters by nature I hope that you will not dismiss our opinions.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby Deebank » 08 Apr 2021, 10:02

yomptepi wrote:
Jock wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
I think that is true of every country. Look at Scotland. Half the cunts are roving the streets wrapped in flags and shouting about how much they hate the English. Flags go hand in hand with nationalism and radicalism.

Fuck off Yomp. You know that isn't true.



It's not true that there are now two ultra nationalist parties?


Yomp's alternative reality!
I have to wonder where your rabid hatred of anything Scottish comes from. Did you accidentally sit on savage thistle as a toddler? It's like a weird persecution complex.

The rise of the SNP is easy to diagnose - it parallels the 'successes' of the tory party and has zero to do with 'hating the English' or any similarities to UKIP or the English far right - politically it is at the opposite end of the scale.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby yomptepi » 08 Apr 2021, 15:23

Deebank wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Jock wrote:Fuck off Yomp. You know that isn't true.



It's not true that there are now two ultra nationalist parties?


Yomp's alternative reality!
I have to wonder where your rabid hatred of anything Scottish comes from. Did you accidentally sit on savage thistle as a toddler? It's like a weird persecution complex.

The rise of the SNP is easy to diagnose - it parallels the 'successes' of the tory party and has zero to do with 'hating the English' or any similarities to UKIP or the English far right - politically it is at the opposite end of the scale.


Hardly.Their flag waving ultra nationalism , and consumate hatred of anything English is open and proudly stated. I certainly have nothing against the Scots or Scotland. If only they felt the same way. Demonising England in order to falsely implement a supposedly left wing agenda ( what a fucking joke ) has worked brilliantly. In the meantime Jimmy Cranky has become more like Trump every day, with her criminal activity and outright lies. The whole situation is like a bad episode of the Simpsons. Wrapped in a Sottish flag.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby Jimbly » 08 Apr 2021, 15:50

its Crankie actually.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby yomptepi » 08 Apr 2021, 15:56

Jimbly wrote:its Crankie actually.


apologies.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby Samoan » 08 Apr 2021, 16:36

I do like a man in a kilt though.
Nonsense to the aggressiveness, I've seen more aggression on the my little pony message board......I mean I was told.

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Re: The Culture War

Postby Deebank » 08 Apr 2021, 16:49

Getting back to the subject in hand, the culture war has already been won by the progressives. All this flag waving is just a rearguard action.

Watch the TV. Every ad features ethnic or mixed race families / couples etc. The advertisers know. Capitalism has twigged that being ‘woke’ is the way to sell product.

My daughters’ generation laugh in bafflement at the way our generation (And those older) despair at trans and LGBTQ rights and our attitude to gender - it just isn’t an issue for anyone under 30.

We know Brexit was a knife edge vote. Perhaps it was their last gasp.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby Jock » 08 Apr 2021, 18:01

yomptepi wrote:
Deebank wrote:
yomptepi wrote:

It's not true that there are now two ultra nationalist parties?


Yomp's alternative reality!
I have to wonder where your rabid hatred of anything Scottish comes from. Did you accidentally sit on savage thistle as a toddler? It's like a weird persecution complex.

The rise of the SNP is easy to diagnose - it parallels the 'successes' of the tory party and has zero to do with 'hating the English' or any similarities to UKIP or the English far right - politically it is at the opposite end of the scale.


Hardly.Their flag waving ultra nationalism , and consumate hatred of anything English is open and proudly stated. I certainly have nothing against the Scots or Scotland. If only they felt the same way. Demonising England in order to falsely implement a supposedly left wing agenda ( what a fucking joke ) has worked brilliantly. In the meantime Jimmy Cranky has become more like Trump every day, with her criminal activity and outright lies. The whole situation is like a bad episode of the Simpsons. Wrapped in a Sottish flag.

Again tarring every Scot with the same feathers :evil:
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Re: The Culture War

Postby jimboo » 08 Apr 2021, 18:34

It's kinda funny that the majority of people who feel that the union and george cross flags represent extreme political views are the very people for whom they are their national emblem.
It is a shame that this is the case.
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Re: The Culture War

Postby Deebank » 08 Apr 2021, 19:19

Who was the sketch character on (I think) Absolutely who stood on the border shouting ‘Bastards!’

Was it McGlashan?

:lol:
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