A great film actor?

..and why not?
The Modernist

Postby The Modernist » 02 Jul 2006, 10:16

I kind of know what Matt is saying with Depp, but I have to say I think he's one of the most interesting screen presences out there.
What makes him unusual is his seeming rejection of any kind of naturalistic acting style (which is what I think Matt finds problematic about him), this places him outside hollwood traditions and makes him pretty much unique. It means you rarely see him in realistic type roles, the nearest I can think of is his role in Donnie Brasco. He's really an expressionist actor (you can imagine him in Silent Cinema) and is best suited to fantasy/surrealist work (hence his relationship with Burton).

As for Douglas, he's always reliable but I can't say I find him very exciting. I much prefer his father who could do the square jawed hero thing but who also could bring a real dark malevolence to some of his roles (think Ace In The Hole).

sensi

Postby sensi » 02 Jul 2006, 18:02

In Benny and Joon I thought he was fantastic...that is what first started me off on watching his films...I never liked Edward Scissorhands though...that scared me for some reason...but his Sam character in Benny and Joon was lovely and well acted out...Also Finding Neverland and Chocolat too...I just hope his Jack Sparrow character doesn't take him over because that would be a shame...Jack Sparrow is a great character but not the only one I would like him to be remembered for

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Postby Jimbly » 02 Jul 2006, 23:38

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Postby Mr Maps » 02 Jul 2006, 23:44

I hate Michael Douglas. But not as much as I do Kevin Costner or Nicholas Cage.
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Postby Prograstinator » 02 Jul 2006, 23:50

Mr. Maps wrote:I hate Michael Douglas. But not as much as I do Kevin Costner or Nicholas Cage.


Him dancing with Sharon Stone in the disco. With a V-Neck Sweater???

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Postby Penk! » 02 Jul 2006, 23:58

The Right Scarfie Profile wrote:Johnny Depp is a very, very selfish actor, which puts me right off him, if I'm totally honest. With the exception of some Tim Burton films (Ed Wood, Edward Scissorhands), he seems unable to work with the rest of the cast in a manner that suggests he's willing to give other characters/actors room. The dreadful Charlie & The Chocolate Factory is a case in point, too often, his schtick totally overcrowded the picture, it was too deliberately detached for any of the children to workaround. Ironically, that was a Burton film, too, so maybe Tim decided that Depp should be given free reign. In recent times, he's treated his roles as glorified cameos, even when they're the main focus.

Sure, it's understandable for something like Pirates of the Carribean, but I wonder whether he has it in him to tone things down and actually let the character speak for itself, so to speak. There's no denying he's a charismatic presence, but whether he's able to relax a little is another matter entirely. Actually, I'd like him to be a bit more like Matt Dillon, another actor who emerged around the same time as Depp. Admittedly, he probably hasn't had the big roles- though I'd argue he's been willing to do more interesting work, particularly his films with Gus Van Sant- and perhaps has a CV that undersells him somewhat.

However, there's a relaxed, assured, non-overpowering presence to him that suggests that he doesn't need to chew several chunks of scenery just to make a point. This isn't intended to be too big a slight on Depp, he clearly has something, it's just the way he uses it which annoys me.


I feel a similar way about Sean Penn.
I've never noticed this with Depp; perhaps because in most of his films he tends to be the only actor I'd really expect to turn in a good performance, but he always seems relaxed even when he's hamming it up in something like Pirates...
Penn, though, always overacts and feels the need to dominate the screen. He's a bundle of tics and irritating affectations - the complete incomprehensibility of his voice in Dead Man Walking, for instance - and never lets anyone else steal his thunder. He spoils more or less everything he's in.
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Postby Prograstinator » 03 Jul 2006, 00:24

The idea of Dead Man seems to be that of a character called William Blake, who is historically interesting but doesn't seem to be the character Johnny Depp is playing. Other than Johnny's Blake becomes living poetry ready to with action rather than words.

Perhaps similar phenomenon in Lars Von Trier's Dogville (the first in a trilogy) is a character named after Thomas Eddison, inventor of such things as :idea:

From Wikipedia (citation needed) "In 1879, Comte de Villiers de l'Isle-Adam wrote the book "L'Ève Future" (translated into English as "Tomorrow's Eve"), about a fictional Thomas Edison who creates the ideal (artificial) woman. "

Perhaps this artificial woman could be that of the Grace character played by both Nicole Kidman and the less glamerous Bryce Dallas Howard in Lars Von Trier's american trilogy.

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Postby The Write Profile » 03 Jul 2006, 01:16

Tangent wrote:The idea of Dead Man seems to be that of a character called William Blake, who is historically interesting but doesn't seem to be the character Johnny Depp is playing. Other than Johnny's Blake becomes living poetry ready to with action rather than words.
.


I forgot all about Dead Man! A fascinating, elliptical film that could only have been made by Jarmusch. One thing that's really fascinating abut it is the pauses and the almost hypnotic silence at times, right from the bizzarre opening scene ("look...they're shooting buffalo"). There was a lot of fuss about its violence at the time of its release, but it's oddly deployed, almost beyond cartoon stylisation.

Perhaps it's the fact it's shot in very heavy black & whites, but the whole film plays like a dream- in fact there have been readings that Depp's character is actually killed in the early scene and everything after that is him imagining his subsequent life while the Indian carts him along the river. It's quite a plausible reading actually, as he's practically impervious to bullets throughout. Either that or it's one more take on the classic Pale Rider myth that's so esential to the Western Film's mythology.

Great Neil Young score, too.
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Postby Muskrat » 03 Jul 2006, 02:22

Penk wrote: Penn, though, always overacts and feels the need to dominate the screen. He's a bundle of tics and irritating affectations -


Why I thought Kevin Bacon all but stole Mystic River -- holding back against all those hambone performances by the other leads. Although I do enjoy Penn, it's (see if you can follow this) much the same way I enjoy Keanu Reeves -- I like to see 'em sweat to act.
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Postby Geezee » 03 Jul 2006, 09:26

i find johnny depp's 'edginess' so totally contrived and think he only competes with brad pitt as the most limited big cheese actor today. gene hackman is an excellent call...i'll always have a soft spot for michael douglas for 'the war of the roses', one of my favourite films.

he's lost his way so much in recent years, but harrison ford was pretty damn cool, reliable film actor...
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Postby Velvis » 03 Jul 2006, 12:05

Younger (40-ish and below) actors whose work I like to watch:

Johnny Depp
Philip Seymour Hoffman
John C. Reilly
Alyson Hannigan
Sarah Silverman
Tracee Patterson (you don't know her, she's a stage actor friend, and is excellent)
Jack Black
Ben Stiller
Edward Norton
James Marsters

Why do I have only two women on this list? Is it because all the good roles are written for men, or is it that I, being a man, just identify more with men?
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Bungo the Mungo

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 03 Jul 2006, 13:14

Velvis wrote:Younger (40-ish and below) actors whose work I like to watch:

Johnny Depp
Philip Seymour Hoffman
John C. Reilly
Alyson Hannigan
Sarah Silverman
Tracee Patterson (you don't know her, she's a stage actor friend, and is excellent)
Jack Black
Ben Stiller
Edward Norton
James Marsters

Why do I have only two women on this list? Is it because all the good roles are written for men, or is it that I, being a man, just identify more with men?


I'd say that still, better roles are written for men. Sadly. Certainly over-40s actors have a better time of it if they're male, in Hollywood.

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Postby The Write Profile » 03 Jul 2006, 23:24

Image
Forgetting those Hollywood types, Gael Garcia Bernal is undeniably the most interesting young actor working in films today. His CV in terms of its range and just its assurance is astonishing, he's appeared in many of the decade's best films already, and been the indelible presence in each of them. Cases in point being Amores Perros, The Motorcycle Diaries, Y Tu Mama Tambien, The Crimes of Father Amaro. He's absolutely fascinating to watch for a number of reasons.

Firstly, he's handsome in a way that's very removed from the bland ideal of being Handsome, and he seems to use that to his advantage (particularly playing the tortured Priest in the Crimes of Father Amaro). Secondly, he possesses this charisma that can at once stoic, but also incredibly impetuous, often within the same film (a young Che in Motorcycle Diaries). He's recently starred in the Cannes winner The King, which I'm very keen to see, and his move to Hollywood has at least started by working with Michelle Gondry in the director's The Science of Sleep.

I could watch him in most anything, his energy is unparalleled.
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Postby Bungo the Mungo » 03 Jul 2006, 23:30

He's a very good-looking chap, have to say. Want to see 'The Motorcycle Diaries'.

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Postby Sneelock » 03 Jul 2006, 23:53

I like Douglas best when he's doing comedy or when he's got a bug up his ass. I think 'Falling Down' is by far the best thing he's done. It's like the guy could explode. I understand his appeal. In most of his movies HE is the reactive character. the audience sees the movie from his point of view. (fatal attraction etc..)
I like Depp best when he's playing it DEAD straight (ninth gate, gilbert grape) or going very broad (Ed Wood, Scissorhands) I think it would behoove Depp to brush up his nuts and bolts before he goes gonzo next time. sadly, he has no reason to please me and seems to be doing okay without MY help.

I think Sean Penn is very talented but I think his directing is the key to my problem with him. the movies he's directed take place in a vacum. he needs to crack a window or a joke, once in a while. when a role factors this in (Sweet and Lowdown), I think that helps. I'd like to see Penn goon it up more. I think he's largely mis-used as a leading man and could have real presence in Randy Quaid type roles. you know? the 'colorful character'. when he does these (Spiccoli, Falcon and Snowman) his energy level seems to spike.

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Postby Velvis » 03 Jul 2006, 23:59

Sneelock wrote:I like Douglas best when he's doing comedy or when he's got a bug up his ass. I think 'Falling Down' is by far the best thing he's done.


I love that movie. I can never decide whether it's the stupidest thing I've ever seen or a work of genius.
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Sneelock

Postby Sneelock » 04 Jul 2006, 00:10

my best guess is that the writer made a satire and the director made a 'heavy statement' movie. despite some REAL cliche stuff I think the satire and MD's performance make it one for the time capsule.

lot's of people got mad in the 90's. not many movies about it.

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Postby Penk! » 04 Jul 2006, 00:11

Is Falling Down the one where all society's ills are represented by Hispanic people?
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Sneelock

Postby Sneelock » 04 Jul 2006, 00:13

LOL.
yeah, pretty much.
the way I see it a white collar guy is suddenly thrust into regular life and it makes him nuts.
there are stereotypes galore but I like it almost in a "Putney Swope" sort of way.

DQ

Postby DQ » 04 Jul 2006, 22:27

Michael Douglas turns me off but I would never dispute his talent just as I wouldn't dispute Macca's but he turns me off too.

Falling Down! Indisputable.


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