Clint Eastwood

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Postby The Write Profile » 12 Aug 2006, 11:37

Okay one thing that wasn't discussed on this thread was people's views on the politics of Dirty Harry (the original, not the sequels). Is it a deeply fascist, reactionary right wing apologist film for vigilante justice, or is it in fact an attack on the ineffectuality of the cops and how people are just sick of any form of authority, period? It's really interesting in that, unlike, say, the French Connection, the protagonist is clearly an outsider, rather than actually being endorsed by the authorities to get the deed done by any means necessary.

In fact both films make for excellently complimentary viewing, particularly when you take into account that The French Connection, Pt. II took Doyle utterly out of his element and essentially made him a junked-out gopher. I prefer the sequel in some respects actually, there's something about Hackman's total vulnerability in that, the fact that he's essentially powerless for the film's mid-section as he goes "cold-turkey. " Actually, further to that, wasn't Frankenheimer marvellous on top form? Much like Don Siegel in that regard, his films are oddly contradictory, but mightily entertaining at heart.

But I digress!
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Postby marios » 12 Aug 2006, 12:13

Since his directorial work has also been discussed in this thread i'm surprised that no one mentioned A Perfect World. Is it cause Kevin Costner stars?

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Postby Clippernolan » 13 Aug 2006, 01:09

The Right Scarfie Profile wrote:Okay one thing that wasn't discussed on this thread was people's views on the politics of Dirty Harry (the original, not the sequels). Is it a deeply fascist, reactionary right wing apologist film for vigilante justice, or is it in fact an attack on the ineffectuality of the cops and how people are just sick of any form of authority, period?


I think it's easy to interpret it as a right wing tract come to the mainstream, but I think it goes deeper than that. I think it plays on the inate fear and frustration that comes with the idea of being a victim of crime, personally, and the helplessness that is felt due to the ambiguity that often surrounds the punishment of criminals. It appeals on a psychological level. In a sense, I think all action movies do this. We triumph over the fear of being a victim vicariously through the hero, who does what we hope we could do to protect ourselves. I think trying to draw workable politics from it is trickier. It's like trying to make your sex life just like it is in a porno film - it's not meant to be realistic, or an answer to anything. It's fantasy, but one with a very useful function.
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Postby The Write Profile » 31 Oct 2006, 21:40

Speaking of Clint, has anyone here got around to seeing his Iwo Jima film, Flags of our Fathers? I'm interested to see how that will turn out, particularly considering its 'sequel' will be released a few months later. Apparently the next one will have more of a Japanese perspective- shades of Oliver Stone's final vietnam film in that claim, but maybe it'll turnout okay.
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Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 31 Oct 2006, 21:59

Clippernolan wrote:
The Right Scarfie Profile wrote:Okay one thing that wasn't discussed on this thread was people's views on the politics of Dirty Harry (the original, not the sequels). Is it a deeply fascist, reactionary right wing apologist film for vigilante justice, or is it in fact an attack on the ineffectuality of the cops and how people are just sick of any form of authority, period?


I think it's easy to interpret it as a right wing tract come to the mainstream, but I think it goes deeper than that. I think it plays on the inate fear and frustration that comes with the idea of being a victim of crime, personally, and the helplessness that is felt due to the ambiguity that often surrounds the punishment of criminals. It appeals on a psychological level. In a sense, I think all action movies do this. We triumph over the fear of being a victim vicariously through the hero, who does what we hope we could do to protect ourselves. I think trying to draw workable politics from it is trickier. It's like trying to make your sex life just like it is in a porno film - it's not meant to be realistic, or an answer to anything. It's fantasy, but one with a very useful function.


One could argue that the right plays on the same fears in politicizing fear the way they do.

I saw Clint on a talk show last week and he was asked about the politics of Dirty Harry. He said essentially that it was easier to stand behind those ideas as a younger man.
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Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 31 Oct 2006, 22:02

= marios = wrote:Since his directorial work has also been discussed in this thread i'm surprised that no one mentioned A Perfect World. Is it cause Kevin Costner stars?


It's an interesting film, isn't it?

I didn't love the ending, but overall I thought it was one of his better films. Certainly his most underrated.
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Postby Matt Wilson » 31 Oct 2006, 22:24

Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
= marios = wrote:Since his directorial work has also been discussed in this thread i'm surprised that no one mentioned A Perfect World. Is it cause Kevin Costner stars?


It's an interesting film, isn't it?

I didn't love the ending, but overall I thought it was one of his better films. Certainly his most underrated.


It's not bad, is it?
And Costner's good in the picture too.

It wasn't a hit in this country (in fact--it was the first big-profile Costner release not to do well since the '80s. Revenge didn't count because it came and went and hardly anyone knew about it). But it was huge overseas. One of the top ten worldwide grossers of 1994.

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Postby Grollope » 31 Oct 2006, 22:39

You lot are a right load of wank.

The guy has had a number 1 single with 'I talk to the trees' - the other side to Lee Marvin's 'Wanderin' Star'.

Moderators: put this into Yakety Yak - it'll be a change from the Satsuma Nightmare threads.
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Postby sloopjohnc » 31 Oct 2006, 22:42

Matt Wilson wrote:
Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
= marios = wrote:Since his directorial work has also been discussed in this thread i'm surprised that no one mentioned A Perfect World. Is it cause Kevin Costner stars?


It's an interesting film, isn't it?

I didn't love the ending, but overall I thought it was one of his better films. Certainly his most underrated.


It's not bad, is it?
And Costner's good in the picture too.

It wasn't a hit in this country (in fact--it was the first big-profile Costner release not to do well since the '80s. Revenge didn't count because it came and went and hardly anyone knew about it). But it was huge overseas. One of the top ten worldwide grossers of 1994.


Thanks for reminding me. Costner is good in it. Kinda plays it like Mitchum.

Saw it in the theater on Christmas Eve. Not a real feel-good type of movie.
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Postby mentalist (slight return) » 31 Oct 2006, 22:58

I liked his episode of that patchy Martin Scorsese blues series he did on piano players. The scenes with him and Brother Ray (icon v icon), Dave Brubeck, Dr John and others were ace.
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Postby Clippernolan » 01 Nov 2006, 00:07

Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
Clippernolan wrote:
The Right Scarfie Profile wrote:Okay one thing that wasn't discussed on this thread was people's views on the politics of Dirty Harry (the original, not the sequels). Is it a deeply fascist, reactionary right wing apologist film for vigilante justice, or is it in fact an attack on the ineffectuality of the cops and how people are just sick of any form of authority, period?


I think it's easy to interpret it as a right wing tract come to the mainstream, but I think it goes deeper than that. I think it plays on the inate fear and frustration that comes with the idea of being a victim of crime, personally, and the helplessness that is felt due to the ambiguity that often surrounds the punishment of criminals. It appeals on a psychological level. In a sense, I think all action movies do this. We triumph over the fear of being a victim vicariously through the hero, who does what we hope we could do to protect ourselves. I think trying to draw workable politics from it is trickier. It's like trying to make your sex life just like it is in a porno film - it's not meant to be realistic, or an answer to anything. It's fantasy, but one with a very useful function.


One could argue that the right plays on the same fears in politicizing fear the way they do...


I think something they count on is a lack of discernment on the part of their constituents as far as what is a realistic concern, and what is simple fear mongering. I'm not sure Eastwood is guilty of this in Dirty Harry.
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Postby Matt Wilson » 01 Nov 2006, 00:21

I remember reading a great article on Clint Eastwood and Jack Nicholson in a magazine sometime in the early '90s. The thesis was that Clint is perceived as this right wing guy who plays by the rules and doesn't rock the boat and Jack was the Hollywood rebel--a guy who sprung from the '60s counterculture and embodied those ideals, etc. But that the reality was that Clint was the Hollywood rebel who did things his way, didn't live in Los Angeles, never or rarely attended Hollywood parties, etc. and that Jack was, in reality, Mr. Hollywood. A guy who went to every shindig, every Oscar ceremony, etc., played the Hollywood game like a pro, took commercial projects and knew whose ass to kiss and all that...

Anyway, it was eye-opening and all true. I should've kept it.

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Postby beenieman » 01 Nov 2006, 10:00

Matt Wilson wrote:I remember reading a great article on Clint Eastwood and Jack Nicholson in a magazine sometime in the early '90s. The thesis was that Clint is perceived as this right wing guy who plays by the rules and doesn't rock the boat and Jack was the Hollywood rebel--a guy who sprung from the '60s counterculture and embodied those ideals, etc. But that the reality was that Clint was the Hollywood rebel who did things his way, didn't live in Los Angeles, never or rarely attended Hollywood parties, etc. and that Jack was, in reality, Mr. Hollywood. A guy who went to every shindig, every Oscar ceremony, etc., played the Hollywood game like a pro, took commercial projects and knew whose ass to kiss and all that...

Anyway, it was eye-opening and all true. I should've kept it.


Very true. Good perspective.

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Postby James R » 01 Nov 2006, 10:24

atomicloonybin wrote:Yes, he's great. And he's also made some terrible films - Any which way but loose (where he was out acted by an Orang-utan), and those lousy potboilers he's made over the past few years - The Rookie, Absolute Power, Blood Work.... Perhaps he has to take the De Niro route: 'if I make this terrible film, that gives me the space and money to make the films I want'. I hope so, anyway.


Unfortunately I'm not sure how well that theory really holds when you consider one important fact: namely, that Eastwood now only acts in films he also directs. The last time he acted for another director was In The Line Of Fire for Wolfgang Petersen back in 1993.
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Postby andymacandy » 01 Nov 2006, 11:30

I love the "Every Which Way/Any Which Way" movies.
Whether that's because of, or despite,Clint, I dont know, but they make me laugh. The scene where the bikers emerge from the tar spreader is one of the funniest things Ive ever seen at the movies.
I thought "The Unforgiven" was excellent too.

But then what do I know!
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Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 01 Nov 2006, 12:27

Clippernolan wrote:
Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
Clippernolan wrote:
The Right Scarfie Profile wrote:Okay one thing that wasn't discussed on this thread was people's views on the politics of Dirty Harry (the original, not the sequels). Is it a deeply fascist, reactionary right wing apologist film for vigilante justice, or is it in fact an attack on the ineffectuality of the cops and how people are just sick of any form of authority, period?


I think it's easy to interpret it as a right wing tract come to the mainstream, but I think it goes deeper than that. I think it plays on the inate fear and frustration that comes with the idea of being a victim of crime, personally, and the helplessness that is felt due to the ambiguity that often surrounds the punishment of criminals. It appeals on a psychological level. In a sense, I think all action movies do this. We triumph over the fear of being a victim vicariously through the hero, who does what we hope we could do to protect ourselves. I think trying to draw workable politics from it is trickier. It's like trying to make your sex life just like it is in a porno film - it's not meant to be realistic, or an answer to anything. It's fantasy, but one with a very useful function.


One could argue that the right plays on the same fears in politicizing fear the way they do...


I think something they count on is a lack of discernment on the part of their constituents as far as what is a realistic concern, and what is simple fear mongering. I'm not sure Eastwood is guilty of this in Dirty Harry.


I wouldn't single out Eastwood as 'guilty' for the politics of "Dirty Harry,' but I do think a certain lack of discernment on the audience's part is part of the bargain. Essentially we are being manipulated into accepting the idea that playing 'dirty' is heroic.

But rather than knock the film, I'd prefer to talk about its social importance. I think it was a cultural signpost that led the way to where we find ourselves today. Who would have thought that the boomer generation that gave us the 'summer of love' and Woodstock would so quickly lurch to the right? How did that happen? When you watch "Dirty Harry' it all makes sense. Harry is a rebel after all. He refuses to be chained down by the system. In retrospect it was natural that all of that "don't trust the man" attitude that was fueled in the '60's would eventually be turned against the beauracracy of 'big government.'

As a kid with a pretty liberal default point I recall being up in arms at the pencil pushers that stood in Harry's way when I watched the film. I had no idea that my liberal distrust of power had been ever so subtley manipulated to a right wing distrust of government. I thought Harry was a liberal like me. Its a hell of a trick that film pulls. Credit where it is due.
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Postby cormac » 01 Nov 2006, 14:39

mwahahartha wrote:I haven't decided. Maybe....or maybe a not so angelic angel.

Have you seen High Plains Drifter? That's another weird Eastwood character/ghost/demo/allegorical character kind of thing...


i always thought Pale Rider was something of a sequel to HPD ... he is a ghost in HPD who comes back for revenge ... in Pale Rider he's back to protect a few good people from dirtbags very much like those that killed him in the first place ...

and he wears the COOLEST long coat in that movie :D (reason enuf to worship him ;) )

'Bird' is another gem by Clint as a director ... a 'biopic' of Charlie Parker :)
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Postby Clippernolan » 01 Nov 2006, 16:35

Davey The Fat Boy wrote:
I wouldn't single out Eastwood as 'guilty' for the politics of "Dirty Harry,' but I do think a certain lack of discernment on the audience's part is part of the bargain. Essentially we are being manipulated into accepting the idea that playing 'dirty' is heroic.

But rather than knock the film, I'd prefer to talk about its social importance. I think it was a cultural signpost that led the way to where we find ourselves today. Who would have thought that the boomer generation that gave us the 'summer of love' and Woodstock would so quickly lurch to the right? How did that happen? When you watch "Dirty Harry' it all makes sense. Harry is a rebel after all. He refuses to be chained down by the system. In retrospect it was natural that all of that "don't trust the man" attitude that was fueled in the '60's would eventually be turned against the beauracracy of 'big government.'

As a kid with a pretty liberal default point I recall being up in arms at the pencil pushers that stood in Harry's way when I watched the film. I had no idea that my liberal distrust of power had been ever so subtley manipulated to a right wing distrust of government. I thought Harry was a liberal like me. Its a hell of a trick that film pulls. Credit where it is due.


Yeah, I can see what you mean and perhaps you’re right. I think the interpretation of this film as a backlash against touchy-feely liberalism is a strong one, if you want to attach political importance to it. I still see it as a psychological fantasy, rather than as a political statement. Although politics very much depends on psychology, I’m not sure this was deliberate on the part of the filmmakers. I think the fear of being a victim is older than politics, and certainly using violence as a means of eliminating this threat is a trend in storytelling that is so old it can’t be traced. I believe it is these primal instincts that are the point of entry for these films, and the films of other genres as well. If there is a political subtext, intended or not, it is certainly secondary. In this sense, we aren’t manipulated to think that “playing dirty is heroic” in this film any more than we were when Jason stole the Golden Fleece from the King of Colchis.

As far as Harry goes, I never really equated him as a counter-cultural hero, really. I sort of went back further to the hard-boiled school – the guy in a corrupt world with a code that allows him to survive. As such I don’t see him as a right-wing hero. I see him as an anarchist.
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Postby king feeb » 01 Nov 2006, 16:54

Matt Wilson wrote:Someone has to give props to the Unforgiven.
My favorite of his and the best western he ever made.

Mystic River was killer too.


The Unforgiven is one of my favorite movies ever. It's an amazing film.

I can't think of one horrible movie Clint made. I'm very picky about what movies in which I invest my valuable time, so that's a very large compliment coming from me.
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Postby nathan » 01 Nov 2006, 18:36

king feeb wrote:I can't think of one horrible movie Clint made.

I was talking about this with SlangKing the other day and you are pretty much right. Even his mediocre ones like Blood Work and Midnight In the Garden Of Good and Evil aren't terrible. Just a bit misguided but still have their audience.

I don't know what it will take for this guy to be taken seriously by other people besides his peers.


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