Euro 2020

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Rorschach
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Rorschach » 08 Jul 2021, 07:03

It must be really annoying to go out like that.
Bugger off.

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Re: Euro 2020

Postby GoogaMooga » 08 Jul 2021, 13:47

Rorschach wrote:It must be really annoying to go out like that.

Aside from a controversial penalty kick, I thought both teams played very well.
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby ChrisB » 08 Jul 2021, 14:18

To be honest, I'm fed up with all the "Football's coming home" bollocks. Thanks mainly to the press, we're a nation who shows no humility in victory and seem to have this attitude that we're the best and everyone else is there to make up the numbers. The poor little German girl getting online abuse just because she was crying when Germany lost...Nazi comments etc, Schmeichel having laser shone onto his face whilst awaiting to face Kane's penalty...and as for that penalty, we'd have been going spare if it had been awarded to Denmark. Having said that, the football is a great distraction from what is going on in Boris' mind.

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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Lord Rother » 08 Jul 2021, 20:31

Denmark’s free kick was equally weak.

But yes, a fair proportion of football supporters are complete fucking morons.

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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Rorschach » 09 Jul 2021, 07:22

slightbreeze wrote:To be honest, I'm fed up with all the "Football's coming home" bollocks. Thanks mainly to the press, we're a nation who shows no humility in victory and seem to have this attitude that we're the best and everyone else is there to make up the numbers.
...and as for that penalty, we'd have been going spare if it had been awarded to Denmark.


Totally agree with all that, though I'm not sure other countries are much different.

I'd not heard about the abuse directed at the German girl but, sadly, it doesn't surprise me at all. A German woman I knew who was living in London at the time the Euros were being played there told me how much abuse she had to put up with at that time.
And that kind of xenophobia does seem a particularly English thing.
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby GoogaMooga » 09 Jul 2021, 08:10

If Schmeichel had a laser shone onto his face prior to the penalty kick, who would want that kind of goal? I don't get it.
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Lord Rother » 09 Jul 2021, 11:33

Not calling into question Anthony Taylor's integrity but it does seem odd that they would appoint an English official as the VAR bloke in a semi final featuring England. (Or any game for that matter.)

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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Geezee » 09 Jul 2021, 11:42

Rorschach wrote:
slightbreeze wrote:To be honest, I'm fed up with all the "Football's coming home" bollocks. Thanks mainly to the press, we're a nation who shows no humility in victory and seem to have this attitude that we're the best and everyone else is there to make up the numbers.
...and as for that penalty, we'd have been going spare if it had been awarded to Denmark.


Totally agree with all that, though I'm not sure other countries are much different.


What is happening with English fans - the booing of the national anthems and taking the knee, the laser, the attacks ispretty different from most other countries, and certainly separates them in this tournament. You really haven't seen that from other fans. This is a very likeable English team, but christ the fans make it very hard for neutrals to muster any kind of support for what I think most would otherwise see as a breath of fresh air to see a new team in the finals, an underdog if you will (though I'm aware again most English fans would scoff a the suggestion that they are an underdog).
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Lord Rother » 09 Jul 2021, 13:34

Unfortunately there is a significant proportion (though still a minority) of English football supporters who are scum.

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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Rorschach » 09 Jul 2021, 14:19

Geezee wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
slightbreeze wrote:To be honest, I'm fed up with all the "Football's coming home" bollocks. Thanks mainly to the press, we're a nation who shows no humility in victory and seem to have this attitude that we're the best and everyone else is there to make up the numbers.
...and as for that penalty, we'd have been going spare if it had been awarded to Denmark.


Totally agree with all that, though I'm not sure other countries are much different.


What is happening with English fans - the booing of the national anthems and taking the knee, the laser, the attacks ispretty different from most other countries, and certainly separates them in this tournament. You really haven't seen that from other fans. This is a very likeable English team, but christ the fans make it very hard for neutrals to muster any kind of support for what I think most would otherwise see as a breath of fresh air to see a new team in the finals, an underdog if you will (though I'm aware again most English fans would scoff a the suggestion that they are an underdog).



I agree with all that too. That's why I edited down what Slighbreeze said to fit with my following sentence.

Some of those fans are awful and I find that aspect of Englishness thoroughly depressing.
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Lord Rother » 11 Jul 2021, 23:33

Not going to slag him off, Southgate has been brilliant at so many aspects of management but he is just a bit too cautious and unreactive for me.

Mancini changed things in the 2nd half - they were very deep in the 1st half but started the 2nd half about 15 yards higher up the pitch, and made timely substitutions. Southgate did nothing to counter that.

Saka was poor - bit too big an occasion. I’m sure he’s been great in training (taking pens) but it’s a bloody big ask for him to step up as a teenager under that pressure. Where the fuck was Sterling?

That defeat lies squarely on Southgate’s shoulders I’m sorry to say.

Very disappointed in his management tonight.

I fear we will continue to be nearly men under him - needs someone with a slightly more adventurous approach to take the next step.

But who? Fuck knows.

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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Rorschach » 12 Jul 2021, 09:02

Lord Rother wrote:
I fear we will continue to be nearly men under him - needs someone with a slightly more adventurous approach to take the next step.



You don't think he might learn from his mistakes here?
I agree he didn't manage this match well but he's shown a capacity to improve over time; the team in this tournament was much better than the one that played in the last World Cup.
I strongly suspect you're right but I haven't given up on him yet. He's the best we've had for a long time.
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby ChrisB » 12 Jul 2021, 09:38

The formation. Scoring early left Southgate with the conundrum "Stick or twist?" Go for a second and try and kill off the game or defend for 87 minutes? Unfortunately, when Italy hit their rhythm, it was the latter. The response in the second half after they equalised was to keep the same formation, substitute our best player, Rice, for Henderson (although it was patently obvious that Phillips was out on his feet). This resulted in us becoming ultra defensive in midfield and also left us with the old joke later on "Warm up, Henderson, you're coming off". As for the penalties, everyone knows that no matter what sport you play, you can't go into it completely cold. So to bring on Rashford and Sancho with a minute to go was madness. They should have been given at least 15mins to try and get into the groove. Ah well, if we're totally honest, Italy were the best team on the night by the proverbial mile and were thoroughly deserving of the victory. Reading the papers this morning, we read about the inevitable racist, online abuse for Rashford, Sancho and Saka. "Taking the knee"? "Black lives matter?" Sadly, I don't think it's made any huge difference, which is horrifically sad. Score and you're a hero. Miss and ....well we all know.
At least some of the fans did us proud....leaving London looking like a bombsite....and finally


In unusually forthright comments from the World Health Organisation which usually refrains from remarking on the policies of individual member states, its COVID-19 technical lead Maria Van Kerkhove called the sight of the more than 60,000 spectators at the match "devastating".

"Am I supposed to be enjoying watching transmission happening in front of my eyes?" she tweeted in the late stages of the match.

"The #COVID19 pandemic is not taking a break tonight ... #SARSCoV2 #DeltaVariant will take advantage of unvaccinated people, in crowded settings, unmasked, screaming/shouting/singing. Devastating."

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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Lord Rother » 12 Jul 2021, 10:43

Rorschach wrote:
Lord Rother wrote:
I fear we will continue to be nearly men under him - needs someone with a slightly more adventurous approach to take the next step.



You don't think he might learn from his mistakes here?
I agree he didn't manage this match well but he's shown a capacity to improve over time; the team in this tournament was much better than the one that played in the last World Cup.
I strongly suspect you're right but I haven't given up on him yet. He's the best we've had for a long time.


Southgate is excellent in so many ways but the squad is the best we’ve had for a long time.

It’s harsh to criticise him after what has been achieved but the pragmatism displayed in his under-utilisation of players with the creative X factor capable of unlocking a defence like Foden, Grealish, Bellingham and Sancho indicates a safety first mindset that is unlikely to change.

Southgate was neither proactive or reactive at any stage. Sterling was very average last night, but there wasn’t a chance in hell he would take him off. Apparently the penalty takers were decided in training - Saka looked overawed during his time on the pitch and Southgate should have reacted to that and should probably have taken him off, but should definitely have taken him out of the shoot out - DEFINITELY DEFINITELY not have left him as the 5th taker!! :x

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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Geezee » 12 Jul 2021, 11:26

It's hard to judge/compare as they were up against excellent opposition but that was the worst I saw England play in the competition. There seemed to be consensus that they were in control in the first half and based on the half-time commentary it felt like England had reinvented the game...but I didn't really see that - yes they were pressing Italy a decent amount but it was all very reactive, as if they were asking Italy to come back into the game without having to worry about England attacking - the forward play from England was very ineffective apart from that excellent, excellent goal. They were effectively allowing Italy back in the game and they gradually found their rhythm without England bothering them too much. An incredible achievement of the England team to have got the game to penalties! I was 100% convinced England would win the penalties and I'm still in a bit of shock that they didn't. And it just seemed with Pickford's excellent save against Jorginho that it was all set up for an incredible turnaround but then it was quite breathtaking to see Sakho of all people stepping up.

Not sure about Donnarumma as player of the tournament, seems a shame with this "new Italy" to have not selected one of their bright, industrious forward players.
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Rorschach » 12 Jul 2021, 13:42

Lord Rother wrote:
Southgate is excellent in so many ways but the squad is the best we’ve had for a long time.

It’s harsh to criticise him after what has been achieved but the pragmatism displayed in his under-utilisation of players with the creative X factor capable of unlocking a defence like Foden, Grealish, Bellingham and Sancho indicates a safety first mindset that is unlikely to change.

Southgate was neither proactive or reactive at any stage. Sterling was very average last night, but there wasn’t a chance in hell he would take him off. Apparently the penalty takers were decided in training - Saka looked overawed during his time on the pitch and Southgate should have reacted to that and should probably have taken him off, but should definitely have taken him out of the shoot out - DEFINITELY DEFINITELY not have left him as the 5th taker!! :x


I agree with all of that except maybe you're being a bit harsh on Sterling. I just thought that he and Kane weren't getting the ball often enough and that was because England were set up to not lose rather than to win. Sterling had a couple of good moments but I felt like he didn't get the opportunity to shine.
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Darkness_Fish » 12 Jul 2021, 13:48

Yeah, having Donnarumma as the player of the tournament seems a bit much, given that he has the likes of Bonucci and Chielini in front of him. He only made 9 saves in the entire tournament. Would've been good to see the likes of Spinazzola or Chiesa get a nod there. Dani Olmo for me was the surprise star of the tournament, I thought he was superb in every game I saw him.

Disappointed in Southgate's management of the game, just sitting back and hoping not to concede is not a brilliant tactic, and changes should've been made much sooner. Mount was an obvious candidate for hooking off the pitch, and there was no way of retaining the ball, no link between defence and attack. Still, it's Southgate' job for the foreseeable future, a World Cup semi-final and a Euro final isn't a bad haul for an England manager, and much more celebrated names have done much worse.
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Darkness_Fish » 12 Jul 2021, 13:51

Sterling's been our best player, our most consistent creative force, I don't see how Southgate could sub him, especially as half of his creativity comes from his unpredictability. You never know if he's going to get to the touchline and clip it back, or trip over someone's ankle and bobble the ball off his arse to Harry Kane for an assist. Would've been good to see Foden or Sancho given a chance, too. Saka had a great couple of games, but it didn't work for him last night.
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Geezee » 12 Jul 2021, 17:56

Among the superlatives that are rightfully being placed on the English team and what it stands for, I think one disappointment really stood out - their treatment of their silver medals, with effectively all players taking them off as soon as they were given to them. There are players who would give their right arm for that medal, and sets a terrible example to kids. I get it - the disappointment and getting so close - but incredibly childish to treat a tournament medal with such disdain. Terrible.
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Diamond Dog » 12 Jul 2021, 18:10

From about 25 minutes in I just felt a strange sense of deja vu. It was the Croatia semi final all over again. We just stopped playing. Klinsman at half time nailed it when he said (and I paraphrase) to go and get the second goal, try to kill the game off. We didn't. We just sunk further and further back - and the gap between the defence/midfield and forwards just got wider and wider.

I really hope Southgate now has a bit of an epiphany and realises that our best chance of further success doesn't come from trying to win games 1-0, but from unleashing the attacking talent we have and letting those players dictate to the opposition. Two holding midfield players (in any configuration) is such a negative mindset - it basically concedes midfield and makes you defend right on top of your centre backs. It invites pressure and, against the best teams, that's asking to get beaten. Just play a back four, one holding midfield player (and we saw from Rice last that he definitely has the ability to do more than just defending) and then four others in midfield (with two wide players) and Kane up top. Just that one switch would completely transform the mentality of the side. And it would be playing to our strengths.

We did well. But I still believe we could have done so much better. The rest of the world was looking at our bench and thing "Why aren't more of them playing?". I must say I think they were right.
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