Why do England underperform at international football?

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The Modernist

Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby The Modernist » 20 Nov 2013, 09:05

I expect Cleverly, Smalling and Walker to all make the squad. It's not as if England have tremendous depth to challenge these names.
I don't think Gerrard missing would be that bigger blow either.

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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby KeithPratt » 20 Nov 2013, 09:10

Ravel Morrison, if he continues to perform, could outmuscle Cleverly, as could Henderson.

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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby The Modernist » 20 Nov 2013, 09:28

Bleep wrote:Ravel Morrison, if he continues to perform, could outmuscle Cleverly, as could Henderson.


Morrison plays in a totally different position to Cleverly.

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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby jimboo » 20 Nov 2013, 13:22

If England had decided that Terry and Lamps and Gerrard etc would have been no longer used by the England manager before the last Euro champs or in the W.C qualifying campaign , would England be a better side?

I cannot help but think ( I have said this before) that following the inevitable early exit in Brazil , we will be faced with disappointed , gutted and indeed sick as the preverbal parrot scene of sweat drenched failures 'retiring' from the world stage. It will seem 'fitting' for them that have won fuck all to retire following a dismal campaign in the world cup finals.

Should England have tried without the old guard to blood the younger players and possibly even sacrifice qualification for Brazil ? I don't blame any England manager for picking the high caps , but ..... As good as your Coles and Stevie Geees have been . The old guard seem to have restricted any chance England or their managers have had of moving forward.
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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby ... » 20 Nov 2013, 18:46

jimboo wrote:If England had decided that Terry and Lamps and Gerrard etc would have been no longer used by the England manager before the last Euro champs or in the W.C qualifying campaign , would England be a better side?

I cannot help but think ( I have said this before) that following the inevitable early exit in Brazil , we will be faced with disappointed , gutted and indeed sick as the preverbal parrot scene of sweat drenched failures 'retiring' from the world stage. It will seem 'fitting' for them that have won fuck all to retire following a dismal campaign in the world cup finals.

Should England have tried without the old guard to blood the younger players and possibly even sacrifice qualification for Brazil ? I don't blame any England manager for picking the high caps , but ..... As good as your Coles and Stevie Geees have been . The old guard seem to have restricted any chance England or their managers have had of moving forward.


Totally agree. They've won nothing with now near wrinklies like Terry, Lampard, Gerrard (and the somewhat younger although equally underwhelming Rooney for that matter). Don't stand much chance of getting further than out of the group with them, so may as well get shot of the old guard and blood some younger talents

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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby Diamond Dog » 21 Nov 2013, 11:51

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25029937

Maybe it's because the England manager has already decided - eight months in advance of the tournament itself- that no new players are likely yo come through during that period and challenge for a place in the squad.

It's also worth noting his comical view that Chris Smalling's performance against Germany (the one where he was directly responsible for not getting close to the goalscorer at a corner) was 'very good'.
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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby jimboo » 21 Nov 2013, 12:03

Diamond Dog wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25029937

Maybe it's because the England manager has already decided - eight months in advance of the tournament itself- that no new players are likely yo come through during that period and challenge for a place in the squad.

It's also worth noting his comical view that Chris Smalling's performance against Germany (the one where he was directly responsible for not getting close to the goalscorer at a corner) was 'very good'.


Yeah , let's not change anything since things are going so well :?
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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby ... » 21 Nov 2013, 13:14

jimboo wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25029937

Maybe it's because the England manager has already decided - eight months in advance of the tournament itself- that no new players are likely yo come through during that period and challenge for a place in the squad.

It's also worth noting his comical view that Chris Smalling's performance against Germany (the one where he was directly responsible for not getting close to the goalscorer at a corner) was 'very good'.


Yeah , let's not change anything since things are going so well :?


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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby Spock! » 21 Nov 2013, 20:28

Diamond Dog wrote:It's also worth noting his comical view that Chris Smalling's performance against Germany (the one where he was directly responsible for not getting close to the goalscorer at a corner) was 'very good'.





Disagree it's worth noting. I don't expect managers (or players) to give honest opinions. He should have said nothing at all but it's sadly par for the course nowadays.
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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby Tomahawk Kid » 22 Nov 2013, 10:48

"Home before the postcards" - to quote Tommy Doc


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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby KeithPratt » 18 Nov 2020, 07:39

My son is now 7.

He trains every week and they also play competitively.

The coaches don't train time on the ball or control.

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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Nov 2020, 09:04

KeithPratt wrote:My son is now 7.

He trains every week and they also play competitively.

The coaches don't train time on the ball or control.



I'm not sure that's a general issue Toby but there is no doubt there is still a large proportion of training children that doesn't involve ball control, it is true.

I'm sure that's because the organisation of football in this country is a complete mess, with different organisations competing/disagreeing with eachother - and where the national team always takes bottom place on the list of priorities.

If you are good enough to be snapped up early by one of the EPL clubs, the chances are you will be coached well. Otherwise, I'm sure the standard of coaching hasn't improved markedly for 30+ years.
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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Nov 2020, 11:11

From August 2013 :

Diamond Dog wrote:The biggest single reason is the inability to coach youngsters to achieve a reasonable level of control of the football.

That is actually it - if you cannot control the ball instantly, and be its master, it controls you and how you play/interact with others around you.

Everything else on here are as a result of the above - solve this, and we would make huge progress.


Just read the whole thread. Very interesting. And wasn't I big on Wilshere and Barkley?! :)
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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby KeithPratt » 18 Nov 2020, 11:44

The positives from this are that in 2020 the Bundesliga is now a viable place for young English footballers to ply their trade until they earn a big money move back to the Premier League. That said, I reckon the jury is still out in Jadon Sancho. That simply wasn't on the table in 2013.

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Re: Why do England underperform at international football?

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Nov 2020, 14:38

KeithPratt wrote: That said, I reckon the jury is still out in Jadon Sancho. That simply wasn't on the table in 2013.


He's very typical of the players we're producing it seems. They are all very much of a muchness. We don't have one player who would definitely get into either a World Team first or second eleven, for me. We have many more technically gifted players than 7 years ago - but I'm not sure they're actually a great deal better. Or maybe it's just in that England set up. It's clear to me that Southgate has gone backwards.
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