Euro 2020

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Lord Rother
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Lord Rother » 12 Jul 2021, 18:35

Diamond Dog wrote:From about 25 minutes in I just felt a strange sense of deja vu. It was the Croatia semi final all over again. We just stopped playing. Klinsman at half time nailed it when he said (and I paraphrase) to go and get the second goal, try to kill the game off. We didn't. We just sunk further and further back - and the gap between the defence/midfield and forwards just got wider and wider.

I really hope Southgate now has a bit of an epiphany and realises that our best chance of further success doesn't come from trying to win games 1-0, but from unleashing the attacking talent we have and letting those players dictate to the opposition. Two holding midfield players (in any configuration) is such a negative mindset - it basically concedes midfield and makes you defend right on top of your centre backs. It invites pressure and, against the best teams, that's asking to get beaten. Just play a back four, one holding midfield player (and we saw from Rice last that he definitely has the ability to do more than just defending) and then four others in midfield (with two wide players) and Kane up top. Just that one switch would completely transform the mentality of the side. And it would be playing to our strengths.

We did well. But I still believe we could have done so much better. The rest of the world was looking at our bench and thing "Why aren't more of them playing?". I must say I think they were right.


I agree with every word of that.

Foden (injured last night), Bellingham, Grealish and Sancho might be hard to squeeze into one team but he needs to work out a way to do just that. (Or at least 3 of the 4.) Rice and Phillips had good tournaments but they are players whose main attributes are stopping the other team from playing.

For me, that should not be the first priority.

I know Southgate was credited with showing his mettle when substituting substitute Grealish the other night but he showed none of that last night. Saka was a weak link, Mount was ineffective all game, Sterling was too focused on trying to win free kicks and penalties....

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Lord Rother
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Lord Rother » 12 Jul 2021, 19:03

After 1 minute of the 2nd half my son said “Wow, Italy are playing a much higher line, there will be opportunities now to get them on the break”.

Absolutely right, but we did nothing to create those opportunities.

6 shots in 120 minutes. 2 on target. Nowhere near good enough.

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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Darkness_Fish » 12 Jul 2021, 19:34

Geezee wrote:I think one disappointment really stood out - their treatment of their silver medals, with effectively all players taking them off as soon as they were given to them.

I hate that. First time I noticed it was in the Europa League final when all the Utd players were doing it. I don't know if it was some pre-planned statement about not accepting second place, but it looks so childish. Just accept the runner-up medal with good grace. Really gives off a bad impression.
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Geezee
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Geezee » 12 Jul 2021, 20:10

Lord Rother wrote:After 1 minute of the 2nd half my son said “Wow, Italy are playing a much higher line, there will be opportunities now to get them on the break”.

Absolutely right, but we did nothing to create those opportunities.

6 shots in 120 minutes. 2 on target. Nowhere near good enough.


Yep that was my thinking as well - and England in theory are well set up for that and it made sense a game plan against a team so comfortable in possession chasing the game. Hit them with sucker punches. But they never came close to that. The final aside, generally speaking though, England really are building an international reputation as being a really tough team and a team with great options. One just hopes they can keep internal strife and recriminations to a minimum and keep building. And respect the fcking medal they have won!
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Lord Rother » 12 Jul 2021, 21:30

Darkness_Fish wrote:
Geezee wrote:I think one disappointment really stood out - their treatment of their silver medals, with effectively all players taking them off as soon as they were given to them.

I hate that. First time I noticed it was in the Europa League final when all the Utd players were doing it. I don't know if it was some pre-planned statement about not accepting second place, but it looks so childish. Just accept the runner-up medal with good grace. Really gives off a bad impression.


Well said.

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Re: Euro 2020

Postby cheifwhat » 13 Jul 2021, 17:13

I read that Southgate looked at how France and Portugal won the previous tournaments and adopted that approiach as 'that's how you win tournaments'. It nearly worked, twice. However, as an Italian, I am delighted that we have finally, after decades of playing with fear, ditched the approach and started playing to win. Hopefully Southgate can see that and adpot that approach for England, also because it fits how England naturally want to play. And if you do lose, at least you know it wasn't for want of trying to win.

I am hoping that this win for Italy sparks a revival of trying to win by attacking (as a warning though, if France adopt this approach, we are all fucked)
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Geezee
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Geezee » 13 Jul 2021, 17:37

cheifwhat wrote:I read that Southgate looked at how France and Portugal won the previous tournaments and adopted that approiach as 'that's how you win tournaments'. It nearly worked, twice. However, as an Italian, I am delighted that we have finally, after decades of playing with fear, ditched the approach and started playing to win. Hopefully Southgate can see that and adpot that approach for England, also because it fits how England naturally want to play. And if you do lose, at least you know it wasn't for want of trying to win.

I am hoping that this win for Italy sparks a revival of trying to win by attacking (as a warning though, if France adopt this approach, we are all fucked)


Maybe Portugal whose 2016 campaign was so woefully uninspiring, but I wouldnt see France that way at all.
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby trans-chigley express » 14 Jul 2021, 01:02

Darkness_Fish wrote:
Geezee wrote:I think one disappointment really stood out - their treatment of their silver medals, with effectively all players taking them off as soon as they were given to them.

I hate that. First time I noticed it was in the Europa League final when all the Utd players were doing it. I don't know if it was some pre-planned statement about not accepting second place, but it looks so childish. Just accept the runner-up medal with good grace. Really gives off a bad impression.

I think it's really down to that initial massive disappointment and frustration of being so close yet so far. In time I'm sure they will treasure those medals. I wouldn't judge them too harshly over this.

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Re: Euro 2020

Postby Geezee » 14 Jul 2021, 09:32

trans-chigley express wrote:
Darkness_Fish wrote:
Geezee wrote:I think one disappointment really stood out - their treatment of their silver medals, with effectively all players taking them off as soon as they were given to them.

I hate that. First time I noticed it was in the Europa League final when all the Utd players were doing it. I don't know if it was some pre-planned statement about not accepting second place, but it looks so childish. Just accept the runner-up medal with good grace. Really gives off a bad impression.

I think it's really down to that initial massive disappointment and frustration of being so close yet so far. In time I'm sure they will treasure those medals. I wouldn't judge them too harshly over this.


For me it's the opposite - everyone understands the disappointment and frustration, and that is precisely the moment where you need to show your mettle, your sportsmanship, or not. It's easy to show sportsmanship when all is good. And there is a sense of fair play (which is a key part of how England in particular likes to think of itself as well) that is critical to all sports events - you congratulate the winners, you respect the fans and the tournament etc. There have been plenty of teams who have gone through what England did - and far worse - who did not take their medals off in disgust. As much as they deserve the plaudits, they also need to take the criticism - and this was extremely unsportsmanlike behaviour, by almost the entire team.
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Re: Euro 2020

Postby trans-chigley express » 15 Jul 2021, 00:12

I've seen countless players remove their runners up medals immediately after receiving them. It's hardly unique to this England team. More in frustration with themselves than any kind of disrespect to the opposition.

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Re: Euro 2020

Postby cheifwhat » 23 Jul 2021, 23:56

Geezee wrote:
cheifwhat wrote:I read that Southgate looked at how France and Portugal won the previous tournaments and adopted that approiach as 'that's how you win tournaments'. It nearly worked, twice. However, as an Italian, I am delighted that we have finally, after decades of playing with fear, ditched the approach and started playing to win. Hopefully Southgate can see that and adpot that approach for England, also because it fits how England naturally want to play. And if you do lose, at least you know it wasn't for want of trying to win.

I am hoping that this win for Italy sparks a revival of trying to win by attacking (as a warning though, if France adopt this approach, we are all fucked)


Maybe Portugal whose 2016 campaign was so woefully uninspiring, but I wouldnt see France that way at all.



France, for all their flair, under Dechamp, sep up to not lose first and use the quality they have to win the match, rather than have an attacking outlook. That's how they al;lowed Switzerland to get back in thew game (cracking day of football that)
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