John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

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Six String
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John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby Six String » 17 Dec 2008, 23:58

Both of these guys have done a lot of recording and they've both done their share of exploring music's boudaries as well as churned out what some might call smooth jazz.

I began listening to Metheny before Scofield, going back to his first solo album on ECM. I owned quite a few albums of his as a jazz newbie. Then he does albums like Song X w/Ornette Coleman mixing in some disonant synth guitar solos on a song or two and then there was Zero Tolerance, a noise-fest that shocked a lot of people. His album with Roy Haynes and Dave Holland is very good. It stays away from the smooth sound he can go to so easily. He's really hit and miss for me but I think he's a good musician who loves what he does. I think I reached an oversaturation with him and have basically stopped actively listening to him and I haven't bought anything by him since Secrets.

Scofield I sort of ignored early in his career as not jazz enough or whatever but then redisovered him in the 90s for some reason. It might have been a glowing review of Hand Jive that drew me in. Recorded with Eddie Harris, it's a got a decided New Orleans funk to it at times. He followed that with Groove Elation, a similar album but without Eddie.

He followed that with an album called Quiet which is exactly that. John playing acoustic guitar with a basic trio or quartet augmented on some songs by horn players such as Wayne Shorter, Howard Johnson, Randy Brecker and up to four other reed players to add a lushness to the arrangements. It's very pretty but it might put some people to sleep.

Then Scofield joins up Medeski, Martin and Wood for A Go Go. It's back to the funk again but with a younger bunch of funkateers.

That's where I left off John.

Oh and Pat and John did an album together which was good for what it was, a jazz rock work out. It could be difficult telling who was playing what which can be part of the problem for some people with these guys.
They do show some creativity and originality from time to time.
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Snarfyguy
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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby Snarfyguy » 18 Dec 2008, 00:06

I have a few Metheny albums, but they must be the wrong ones because they're very smooth-jazz, jazz-Lite, whatever you want to call it. Can you recommend some of the edgier titles?

I saw him live in the 80s and it was one of the most boring concerts I've ever sat through (it was an obligation to the then-girlfriend's family and as such, no getting high before the show happened, which really made the THREE HOURS or whatever it was go slowly. and my seat was really uncomfortable. :x )
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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby TG » 18 Dec 2008, 00:48

I don't know much about Pat Metheny. I always assumed he would be too wimpy for my taste.

However, Scofield's work with Medesky, Martin and Wood (the aforementioned A-Go-Go and Out Louder from a couple of years ago) is highly recommended. About as close as you'll get to The Meters without traveling to NOLA.
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Six String
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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby Six String » 18 Dec 2008, 01:24

Snarfyguy wrote:I have a few Metheny albums, but they must be the wrong ones because they're very smooth-jazz, jazz-Lite, whatever you want to call it. Can you recommend some of the edgier titles?

I saw him live in the 80s and it was one of the most boring concerts I've ever sat through (it was an obligation to the then-girlfriend's family and as such, no getting high before the show happened, which really made the THREE HOURS or whatever it was go slowly. and my seat was really uncomfortable. :x )


He doesn't have many edgy albums but I can recomend Song X with Ornette Coleman, Jack DeJohnette, Charlie Haden and Denardo Coleman if you want to hear him on his wilder side. I saw him in the late 80s too and I can understand what you were going through. I too was on a date of sorts. Someone gave me two tickets they had won from the radio and I had just met this woman at a wine tasting recently so I asked her out to the show. I liked parts of it but it was a little too much of the same sound for a very long time. He's known for pretty long shows. Zero Tolerance is his Metal Machine Music album and certainly his most controversial album. I'm not even curious.

Sometimes Scofield can skate close to that smooth sound but I think he's always been a little grittier than Pat.

I think my favorite Scofield is on the Joe Hendersion Tribute to Miles called So Near, So Far. It really shows all of John's strengths and none of his weaknesses.

I took A Go Go with me to Europe to listen to on the train/plane. I had just bought it so it reminds me of my trip every time I play it.
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Kenji
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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby Kenji » 18 Dec 2008, 09:17

I don't own any albums by these artists but I saw John Scofield's show in 1991 or 1992 after I took LSD!

I remember I enjoyed it a lot but I can't remember his band or sound...

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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby soundchaser » 18 Dec 2008, 09:49

Pat Metheny for me. I don't have many of his albums, but I do love his sound. The more recent The Way Up album, was absolutely brilliant. A friend recently lent me the early eighties Joni Mitchell DVD Shadows & Light, which has both Pat Metheny and Jaco Pastorious. It is dated as hell, but I loved it to bits.

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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby soundchaser » 18 Dec 2008, 09:50

Also, Pat Metheny reminds me of Steve Howe, so that's another reason I like him.

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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby trans-chigley express » 18 Dec 2008, 11:31

I don't know Schofield but I like Metheny despite his tendency to wander into smooth jazz territory. When he's good he very good indeed but I do find myself cherry picking tracks from his albums.

One album of his I wouldn't hesitate in recommending is the As Falls Witchita So Falls Withita Fall with its superb side-long title track that mixes jazz, ambient and prog to great effect. The second half of the album is more traditional Metheny but it's all good stuff.
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I'm also a fan of Secret Story where he dabbles with some world music but creates some wonderfully creative music especially in the first half of the album.
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Albums like Offramp, First Circle, Still Life (Talking) and Imaginary Day all have some great stuff mixed in with some dull moments (all my favourite bits are on an mp3 playlist which is probably the most played thing on my player). Travels is a terrific live album too so I'm surprised people consider his live shows boring. Perhaps it depends on when you see and what the set list is.

I tend to be less keen on the more 'straight' jazz stuff so the albums that appeal to me would probably be labelled as 'jazz for people who don't like jazz' which is probably about right!

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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby Neil Jung » 18 Dec 2008, 13:06

With respect to Pat Metheny, I agree with my learned friend above. As Falls etc is wonderful.

Not sure about his current unpleasant name.
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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby hookfinger » 18 Dec 2008, 16:34

I saw Metheny just a couple of years ago and was not impressed. Thank heavens Christian McBride was on bass and kept me entertained that way.

I can't get behind even Song X. Metheny needs to get rid off the dumb striped shirts as well.
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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby Six String » 18 Dec 2008, 16:54

the mad elf wrote:I saw Metheny just a couple of years ago and was not impressed. Thank heavens Christian McBride was on bass and kept me entertained that way.

I can't get behind even Song X. Metheny needs to get rid off the dumb striped shirts as well.


And get a haircut too! :P

Agree with the general consensus of people here. Metheny is kind of hit and miss but his hits can be pretty good. Of the 1980s period I think the As Wichita Falls... is the best of the bunch even though it is side one that does it for me the most. I lost that one in the flood of '90 so it's been a while, although I can't say I really miss it.
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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby Show Biz Kids » 18 Dec 2008, 20:08

As people have said re: Metheny, a lot of what he does doesn't really appeal to me, but there has been the occasional absolute gem from time to time...
I held out high hopes for his collaborations with Milton Nascimento, after all there couldn't be doubting any of the potential talent between those two, but that did nothing for me whatsoever.

The best thing that I've heard Metheny do is still "Electric Counterpoint" with Steve Reich, which of course is absolutely sublime...

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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby C » 31 Oct 2021, 19:53

In light of the recent Pat Metheny PSL it might be nice to kick this around a bit more




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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby Neil Jung » 31 Oct 2021, 22:53

I was going to contribute then noticed how old the thread was and that I did contribute 13 years ago!
I still haven’t heard any John Scofield.
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Re: John Scofield vs Pat Metheny

Postby trans-chigley express » 01 Nov 2021, 07:56

I was going to contribute too and was surprised to see I already had. I can add that I think Metheny's last album From This Place is marvelous.



Neil Jung wrote:I still haven’t heard any John Scofield.

Me neither.


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