Miles Davis

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Fonz
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Re: Miles Davis

Postby Fonz » 01 Jan 2024, 21:59

Probably got more Miles discs than any other artist, including Zappa-and I must have 150 Zappa discs!

Big fan

Like C, I started with BB. Then worked backwards. Then forwards.
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Re: Miles Davis

Postby LMG » 13 Jan 2024, 11:35

C wrote:.

ONLY TWO LEFT!

C wrote:.
I picked this 2CD set up recently. Very nice it is too

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This is an absolute gem and going second hand for very cheap!

86 minutes of genius!


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Olympia-Mar-20 ... B000063E14

DJF (Amazon) writes:

This is a fascinating, very well recorded 2CD collection featuring both sets from Miles' Spring 1960 tour opening Paris gigs, for the second set is one of the most infamous in Miles' history - the one where John Coltrane gets loudly booed. The first 45 minute set passes uneventfully with just three numbers performed: All Of You, So What and On Green Dolphin Street. There's no hint 0f audience unrest here, with Coltrane taking long solos in his 'Sheets of Sound' style, with excellent playing from the Quintet featuring Wynton Kelly, Paul Chambers and Jimmy Cobb. But that's not the case by the second set. Walkin' is played with no hint of trouble, but during Bye Bye Blackbird Coltrane launches into a solo of such ferociously and length unrest becomes apparent, with loud boos from a large section of the audience protesting at Coltrane's then alien style and that he is taking more time soloing than Davis. This springs up again during Round About Midnight but this time to equally loud cheers in response, and by the time The Theme is played it's a very mixed closing response. The band throughout play extremely well technically and subsequent concerts from this tour show no hint of malice towards Coltrane. However the Sheets of Sound style was so new and technically not what this Paris audience were familiar with style wise that this is a complete one off. The music throughout is largely excellent, just the occasional bum note flys which is understandable at the start of a tour. This set is well presented and well recorded from a radio broadcast and probably the lowest cost way of purchasing these concerts which, together with the Autumn tour Olympia sets with Sonny Stitt can cost a pretty penny. All four concerts are available from this publisher at low cost with these two complementing the "All Of You - The Last Tour 1960" set well. Well worth buying for anyone who likes Miles' acoustic performances.


Unequivocally recommended and at a give away price




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Thanks for the heads up, C.

I ordered one and it arrived this week. Excellent, historic recording.

Coltrane sounds like he is literally bursting out of the Miles Davis Quintet with a different, startling new sound. Coupled with the fact that the booklet notes indicate that Miles would retreat into the shadows when Coltrane was soloing extensively, and I am not surprised that the |French audience were puzzled, shocked even. Nice also to hear them cheering him after his solos, countering the boos.

Interesting that Coltrane was reluctant to join this European tour in 1960, feeling that his destiny was to assemble and record/tour with his own group as soon as possible. He had already released Giant Steps and was months away from recording My Favourite Things.

A rare instance of an historic performance that is also a very enjoyable listen.
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Re: Miles Davis

Postby LMG » 13 Jan 2024, 12:40

Fonz wrote:Probably got more Miles discs than any other artist, including Zappa-and I must have 150 Zappa discs!

Big fan

Like C, I started with BB. Then worked backwards. Then forwards.


I have a lot of MIles. Not as much as the Grateful Dead or King Crimson, but one hell of a lot.

Here is what comes to hand, which I got out to play after the Paris Olympia set:

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I probably have another ten boxed sets such as the Gil Evans, Coltrane, and Second Quintet sets, plus expanded Bitches Brew and several live boxes such as Plugged Nickel and Blackhawk. Plus expanded/remastered editions of the Columbia catalogue sometimes in multiples.

100+ CDs, maybe 200.

One thing that strikes me is that the rookie's error I made was to ignore other jazz trumpet players who were eclipsed by Miles (critically, in terms of popularity, influence, or some combination of all) because with Miles 'you've got that covered'.

In fact, Miles's trumpet was NOT the defining sound of jazz in the bebop age and after. He might be better looked at as an innovator/superstar/leader, but you also need to explore Lee Morgan, Kenny Dorham, Freddy Hubbard, Chet Baker, Clifford Brown, Booker Little, Eddie Henderson, Art Farmer, Don Cherry, Nat Adderley, Blue Mitchell, and a host of others others.

Some Satchmo and Dizzy wouldn't hurt.

Then when you go back to Miles you can appreciate what he did and did differently on his instrument all the more.
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Re: Miles Davis

Postby C » 13 Jan 2024, 14:12

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LMG wrote:Nat Adderley, Blue Mitchell


Coincidentally Chris I am playing this as I type:

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Replete with Nat





Also it occurred to me a few days ago that Blue is on this:

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A fine record

Freddy Robinson - lead guitar
Larry Taylor - bass guitar
John Mayall - vocals, piano, guitar, harmonica
Ron Selico - drums
Blue Mitchell - trumpet
Clifford Solomon - alto & tenor saxophone





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Re: Miles Davis

Postby C » 13 Jan 2024, 14:15

C wrote:.
LMG wrote:Nat Adderley, Blue Mitchell


Coincidentally Chris I am playing this as I type:

Image

Replete with Nat





Also it occurred to me a few days ago that Blue is on this:

Image

A fine record

Freddy Robinson - lead guitar
Larry Taylor - bass guitar
John Mayall - vocals, piano, guitar, harmonica
Ron Selico - drums
Blue Mitchell - trumpet
Clifford Solomon - alto & tenor saxophone





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Rorschach wrote:You, sir, are a destroyer of planets. A BCB Galactus if you will.

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Re: Miles Davis

Postby mudshark » 13 Jan 2024, 23:32

I'm with LMG on Miles. Some before, during and even after him (Marsalis, notably) were better technically, but this man is an almost incomparable giant of music innovation. A fresh vinyl copy of 'Jack Johnson' got delivered to the gate a mere 2 hours ago and the album is already having its 2nd spin, despite the granddaughter saying she hates it. What the hell does she know. She's 5 already, and still thinks that song from "Frozen" is the best ever. Go to your room. "Yesternow" just blows my mind, as it did James Brown's. If I were asked to define music history of the 2nd half of the 20th century, my three main guys would be: Miles Davis, Frank Zappa and Conny Plank. These geniuses have created genres all by themselves and these still reverberate in (good) music today. Some may want to add Fripp as the "Godfather of Prog' or whatever, but since most of what he did pre "League of Gentlemen" is utter rubbish, I can't get myself to do it. Larks Tongues in Aspic still feels and sounds like a disgusting recipe.

That John Mayall album mentioned above is pretty damn good.
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Re: Miles Davis

Postby C » 15 Jan 2024, 12:01

mudshark wrote:Larks Tongues in Aspic still feels and sounds like a disgusting recipe.


My favourite Crimso album



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Re: Miles Davis

Postby Hightea » 16 Jan 2024, 03:21

Got Bitches Brew and Live Evil for my birthday in late 70's and while I knew some Miles prior this put him on my radar. Over the next few years I pick up the usual Kind of Blue, Sketches, Miles Smiles, In a Silent Way, Milestones etc

Favorites: Bitches, Live Evil, King of Blue, Milestones plus some of the older stuff with Lionel and Monk.

In theory I saw him live three times - Once he didn't show up, once he showed up an hour late and only played about 6 or 7 songs, Other time he was amazing.
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Re: Miles Davis

Postby Fonz » 19 Jan 2024, 19:01

I understand the idea of ‘Miles eclipsing everything, to the detriment of others’, but you have to start somewhere.
I take every opportunity to pick up other stuff, mainly grey box sets, but Miles is the de facto ‘standard’ against whom one measures the others.
I think he was SO distinct that he is actually a good comparator.
But then, you have to factor in the guys in his orbit , and suddenly life gets more complicated-in a good way.
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Re: Miles Davis

Postby C » 20 Jan 2024, 11:59

Miles eclipsed others with his trumpet playing

Milt with his vibraphone playing

Trane with his sax playing

Max with his tubs (maybe)

Horses for courses





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Re: Miles Davis

Postby C » 20 Jan 2024, 20:58

C wrote:Max with his tubs (maybe)

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Hmm…

Maybe Jimmy Cobb who played with Cannonball, Miles and Trane to name but three

Les may have other opinions



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Re: Miles Davis

Postby Six String » 20 Jan 2024, 21:15

Max was a master at polyrhythms and one of my favorite drummers along with Tony Williams, Philly Joe Jones and Elvin Jones as far as the usual suspects go. Other drummers who don’t get as much notice like Joe Chambers, Bill Stewart, Billy Hart and Kenny Wollesen. I’m leaving out many other top drummers but you have to stop somewhere….
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Re: Miles Davis

Postby C » 20 Jan 2024, 21:35

Six String wrote:Max was a master at polyrhythms and one of my favorite drummers along with Tony Williams, Philly Joe Jones and Elvin Jones as far as the usual suspects go. Other drummers who don’t get as much notice like Joe Chambers, Bill Stewart, Billy Hart and Kenny Wollesen. I’m leaving out many other top drummers but you have to stop somewhere….


So how do you rate Jimmy…?



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Re: Miles Davis

Postby C » 20 Jan 2024, 21:37

Tony Williams is a good call Les - I love his Lifetime stuff
and his work with Miles



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Re: Miles Davis

Postby Six String » 20 Jan 2024, 22:12

C wrote:
Six String wrote:Max was a master at polyrhythms and one of my favorite drummers along with Tony Williams, Philly Joe Jones and Elvin Jones as far as the usual suspects go. Other drummers who don’t get as much notice like Joe Chambers, Bill Stewart, Billy Hart and Kenny Wollesen. I’m leaving out many other top drummers but you have to stop somewhere….


So how do you rate Jimmy…?



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Jimmy Cobb is a fine drummer but not as interesting as the others I mentioned. By that I mean I don’t think he did anything to push jazz drumming forward but in terms of doing his job of keeping time he excelled at that.
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Re: Miles Davis

Postby Fonz » 20 Jan 2024, 23:08

Art Blakey
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Re: Miles Davis

Postby mudshark » 21 Jan 2024, 04:47

Hmmm, Jimmy Cobb at "Newport" (58) with Miles was breaking new grounds. More a 'traditional' Jazz drummer compared to, inevitably, Tony Williams, but better in the genre of the time (58-63). Lived of his "Kind of Blue" fame for pretty much 60 years. But that was well deserved fame. Miles bless him.
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Re: Miles Davis

Postby C » 21 Jan 2024, 23:44

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NP

Image

Highlights from the Plugged Nickel is a culled version of the Complete Live at the Plugged Nickel 8 CD album released on November 21, 1995

Miles Davis – trumpet
Wayne Shorter – tenor saxophone
Herbie Hancock – piano
Ron Carter – double bass
Tony Williams – tubs

An interesting read from Wiki:

According to Wayne Shorter, by this point the group had "settle[d] back into a groove," causing the musicians to become restless and dissatisfied. Herbie Hancock stated: "we'd gotten so cohesive as a band that it had become easy to play together. We had figured out a formula for making it work, but of course playing by formula was exactly the opposite of what we wanted to do. We needed to put the challenge back in, to figure out ways to take more risks." He recalled: "everybody did things according to certain kinds of expectations. I knew if I did this, Ron would do that, or Tony knew that if he did this, I would do that. It became so easy to do that it was almost boring."On the flight to Chicago, Tony Williams came up with a solution, proposing that the group make "anti-music": "whatever someone expects you to play, that's the last thing you play..."After some discussion, the musicians agreed, but decided not to tell Davis. Hancock added: "Some people have suggested that Tony was trying to sabotage the band by doing this, but really he was only trying to sabotage our comfort level, to break us open again. It was just another step in trying to push our boundaries as musicians and as a band."

The Plugged Nickel set list consisted of mostly standards, with the exception of "Agitation" from E.S.P. Hancock wrote: "from the moment Miles counted off the first song, I started focusing on how I could play against expectation. Whenever a song would build up, getting to a natural peak, the natural inclination would be to push it over the top—but instead I would suddenly bring it down with one quiet note. Tony did the same, building up his playing in volume and intensity, and then, instead of hitting the bass drum, he'd gently tap the cymbal. We did the opposite, too, suddenly ratcheting up the intensity just as a tune was winding down."Shorter recalled: "When I heard those guys dropping the bottom out from under me, I knew it was 'Go for it' time!... I'd been in the band for a little over a year, and the next thing I knew we were way out there. It was like... this is what freedom means. The awareness was that the great responsibility that came with the territory was to push the envelope. You heard responsibility converted into expression that sounded like a great adventure. "During these sets, tempos were shifted and tunes were stretched to the verge of unrecognizability.

Although Davis was still recovering from his ordeals, he seemed to enjoy the unexpected challenge, and allowed the other players extra space. According to Hancock, Davis "never said a word about it. He knew better than anyone that something strange was going on, but he never asked us, and we never told him. He just went with it. And he was brilliant!" At the conclusion of the concerts, according to Shorter, "we were raising so much hell [musically] that when we came off we couldn't say nothing to each other. We were lethargic in a princely way. We weren't trying to put on airs... it was like, 'let's not touch this.' You were in the royalty of the moment, and such royalty need never be tampered with."Hancock wrote that when he finally mustered the courage to listen to the recordings, he was surprised: "There was so much going on, and it sounded so little like what I remembered, that I was shocked. I really liked it, but I'm not even sure I could explain why. I would call it profound, except that the word 'profound,' to me, implies something that's deep and elegant. This was not elegant. This was naked and had guts. It was raw. To this day, when I hear recordings from the Plugged Nickel, I'm knocked out by their sheer raw intensity and honesty."




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