Frank Zappa

Do talk back
User avatar
Fonz
Posts: 4088
Joined: 17 Feb 2014, 14:10
Location: Nevermore

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby Fonz » 04 Apr 2022, 11:38

I’ve had the 200
Motels original(!) cd set since it was released.

Do I need the super delux? It’s £80 at Amazon now.
It’d be a stretch this month. Persuade me one way or the other. Is there lots of stuff that is essential, beyond the original album?
Heyyyy!

"Fonz clearly has no fucks to give. I like the cut of his Cupicidal gib."

User avatar
C
Robust
Posts: 78998
Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 19:06

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby C » 04 Apr 2022, 11:53

Fonz wrote: Is there lots of stuff that is essential, beyond the original album?


No. Save your money




.
Lord Rother wrote:And there was me thinking you'd say "Fair enough, you have a point Bob".

User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 32515
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby Matt Wilson » 04 Apr 2022, 14:22

C wrote:
Fonz wrote: Is there lots of stuff that is essential, beyond the original album?


No. Save your money




.



Have to agree. I did enjoy it - but the box is for die-hards. Had it included a nice blu ray or DVD of the film, then...

User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 32515
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby Matt Wilson » 08 Apr 2022, 14:34

Just announced. Three shows from '76:

https://store.udiscover-music.de/p51-i0 ... index.html

I haven't even received my 1971 box yet. The ZFT is on fire these days.

User avatar
Hightea
Posts: 4364
Joined: 16 Apr 2015, 02:18
Location: NY state

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby Hightea » 09 Apr 2022, 04:25

Fillmore East - June 1971

Spent a month and a half at the stink house - Long Beach Island, NJ and the family only took about 20 albums with us. This was the only Zappa album and we played it to death. I had just about no idea what the songs were about and remember singing "talk about your hemorrhoids" to my mom? :lol:
A bizarre album to have of Zappa considering it was 74. Still love it today.

Think it was a year later but same house:


200 Motels and Just Another Band from LA are rare listens to me. nice albums but not where I turn for Zappa. Loved him picking on society.
Remember getting my hands on 200 Motels and how disappointed it was.
Last edited by Hightea on 09 Apr 2022, 18:46, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Fonz
Posts: 4088
Joined: 17 Feb 2014, 14:10
Location: Nevermore

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby Fonz » 09 Apr 2022, 16:01

C wrote:
Fonz wrote: Is there lots of stuff that is essential, beyond the original album?


No. Save your money




.


I relented.

I am a die hard, MW. Only a small handful of gaps in the collection. I’ve prolly got 115 out of 120.
I suppose this is more about ‘the collection’ than the music, but I saw the box in HMV and it looked and felt great. Fetishism at work! Bought from evil Bezos though. £40 cheaper.

Who’s for ‘Erie’?
Heyyyy!

"Fonz clearly has no fucks to give. I like the cut of his Cupicidal gib."

User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 32515
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby Matt Wilson » 09 Apr 2022, 16:40

Fonz wrote:
C wrote:
Fonz wrote: Is there lots of stuff that is essential, beyond the original album?


No. Save your money




.


I relented.

I am a die hard, MW. Only a small handful of gaps in the collection. I’ve prolly got 115 out of 120.
I suppose this is more about ‘the collection’ than the music, but I saw the box in HMV and it looked and felt great. Fetishism at work! Bought from evil Bezos though. £40 cheaper.

Who’s for ‘Erie’?


I totally get it. I'm the same way. Problem is - with me I'm that way with tons of bands/artists. I buy so much I'm now like a hoarder. Did you see my post above about three new '76 shows?

User avatar
Fonz
Posts: 4088
Joined: 17 Feb 2014, 14:10
Location: Nevermore

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby Fonz » 09 Apr 2022, 16:57

Yeah. Eye-wateringly expensive compared with Roxy, or even the 71 box. I’m hoping the price becomes more reasonable…
Heyyyy!

"Fonz clearly has no fucks to give. I like the cut of his Cupicidal gib."

User avatar
J
Posts: 2063
Joined: 17 Jul 2003, 00:45
Location: all over the place

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby J » 14 Apr 2022, 00:25

Alex Winter's 2020 documentary "Zappa" got a showing on BBC4 last October, but appears to still be available on the BBC iPlayer site

Zappa
(Documentary, 2020 Dir Alex Winter 129 mins - (apparently it...) contains strong sexual images, sex references, (strong) language...)

This description taken from the iPlayer page :
"The first all-access documentary - which was years in the making - about the legendary icon, Frank Zappa. It conveys the scope of his prodigious and varied creative output and the breadth of his extraordinary personal and political life.
The documentary team was granted exclusive access by Frank's wife Gail to a vast collection of unreleased music, movies, incomplete projects, unseen interviews and unheard concert recordings. Much of these were deteriorating and in danger of being lost forever."

link to iPlayer : https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0010rl8
Image
oh the sun is shining
and I'm on that road

User avatar
Fonz
Posts: 4088
Joined: 17 Feb 2014, 14:10
Location: Nevermore

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby Fonz » 14 Apr 2022, 08:19

Worth watching

I need the Blu-ray for the extended interviews etc

It’s on the list
Heyyyy!

"Fonz clearly has no fucks to give. I like the cut of his Cupicidal gib."

User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 32515
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby Matt Wilson » 20 Apr 2022, 16:43

Image
Läther 1977
The story of Läther is complicated. Frank was having issues with Warner Brothers at the time and wanted out of his contract. He owed them four more albums and he was through, or at least he thought that. So he dumped the master tapes of Zappa in New York, Studio Tan, Hot Rats III (Sleep Dirt), and Orchestral Favorites in their laps and expected that to end their association. Only that's not what happened. They claimed it all counted as one LP, and they didn't even release that as such. The resulting lawsuits didn't end until 1982, whereupon Zappa received a settlement as well as ownership of the master tapes. People have debated if he wanted to release this music as individual LPs or as one big set, and he never fully explained the matter. One thing is irrefutable though, and that is that in December of 1977, FZ went to radio station KROQ-FM in Los Angeles and played all eight LP sides of the Läther box set, and encouraged people to tape it for their private collections.

So since this music was out there by the end of '77, and since no official Zappa LP was released that year, I'm going to review this here to represent what he wanted his fans to hear then. The three-disc CD was finally released after his death in 1996, and of course, all four of the records named above saw street dates before the end of the seventies. Further songs from this box were spread out among other LPs too. Had this box been sprung on the public at the time, it would have been his best '70s release. Of course, then he would have been motivated to write more music in '78 and '79 instead of falling back on releasing this stuff piecemeal to fill his obligations. We'll never know what kind of impact this would have had in 1977 or what he would have come up with after that.

I'm going to spend more time reviewing these songs when I get to the upcoming albums they were later included on, but I'll go over all the basics of the tracks here as they would have appeared in 1977 had Läther been released.

Image

Wiki: "Läther (/lɛðɜːr/, or "Leather") is the sixty-fifth official album by Frank Zappa. It was released posthumously as a three-CD set on Rykodisc in 1996. The album's title is derived from bits of comic dialog that link the songs. Zappa also explained that the name is a joke, based on "common bastardized pronunciation of Germanic syllables by the Swiss."

Läther integrates many aspects of Zappa's musical oeuvre — heavy rock, orchestral works, and complex jazz flavored instrumentals, along with Zappa's distinctive electric guitar solos and satirical lyrics, all edited together in a seemingly random way.

The Läther album was intended for release in 1977 as a four-LP box set, but it never appeared officially in this format. A variety of bootleg recordings of this material were widely distributed. One of these was a four-LP box on the "Edison Record" label and appeared to be professionally packaged. Zappa's name did not appear on this album but some fans may have been led to believe that it was authorized.

Background
Zappa's relationship with manager Herb Cohen ended in May 1976. Zappa sued Cohen for skimming more than he was allocated from the DiscReet Records label. The company was co-owned by Zappa and Cohen and distributed by Warner Bros. Records. Zappa was also upset with Cohen for signing acts of which Zappa did not approve.

Cohen filed a lawsuit against Zappa in return, which froze the money Zappa and Cohen had gained from an out-of-court settlement with MGM/Verve over the rights to Zappa's early Mothers of Invention recordings. Legal issues also prevented Zappa having access to any of his previously recorded material during the trials. Zappa then had his contract re-assigned and took his personal master copies of the album Zoot Allures directly to Warner in October 1976 while bypassing DiscReet. Cohen claimed that this action violated the terms of his contract with Zappa, so the final four albums of Zappa's contract were then assigned back to DiscReet.

Recording sessions
Läther was assembled by Zappa in 1977 from a wide variety of recording sessions stretching back as far as eight years, but mostly between 1972 and 1976. The tracks utilize a constantly changing cast of backing musicians. Most of the songs on Läther are linked together with bits of musical sound effects (musique concrète) and comic dialog from Zappa band members, Terry Bozzio, Patrick O'Hearn, and Davey Moire. More of these same bits, or "grouts" as Zappa allegedly called them, appear on other albums such as Sheik Yerbouti.

Basic tracks for "Lemme Take You to the Beach" were recorded during 1969 sessions for Hot Rats. The track was finished in 1976 at the Record Plant in Los Angeles. "Down in De Dew" comes from November 1972 sessions in New York and Los Angeles. "For The Young Sophisticate" is a 1973 studio recording from Bolic Sound and is different from the later live version on Tinsel Town Rebellion.

The album's opener "Re-Gyptian Strut" comes from December 1974 sessions at Caribou Ranch in Colorado. "Flambe'" and "Spider of Destiny" were also recorded at the ranch with additional overdubs in 1976 at the Los Angeles Record Plant. These three are among the songs written by Zappa in 1972 for a stage musical called Hunchentoot. A full script exists, but the recordings of this project were never completed.

The most substantial work is "The Adventures of Greggery Peccary," a story set to music, which lasts over 20 minutes. The piece is scored for a large orchestra and was recorded in Los Angeles between 1972 and 1974. More orchestral works come from a September 1975 session with the 37-piece Abnuceals Emuukha Electric Symphony Orchestra, which was recorded at Royce Hall with conductor Michael Zearott. Zappa said the 1975 orchestral sessions alone cost him about $200,000.

Most of the live tracks were recorded in December 1976 at the Palladium in New York City. The last recordings are live tracks including "Tryin' to Grow a Chin" from a February 1977 London show at the Hammersmith Odeon. This song also appeared in a different later recording on Sheik Yerbouti.

History
In April 1975 Zappa had a one-sided demo acetate disc cut at Kendun Recorders in Burbank, California. This unreleased disc contains "Revised Music for Guitar and Low-Budget Orchestra", "200 Years Old" and "Regyptian Strut". In the notes to the June 1975 album One Size Fits All Zappa mentioned a planned studio album which never appeared. Many fans believe that this was to have included "The Adventures of Greggery Peccary," filling one side, and that the April acetate was to have been the other side.

A complete album titled Six Things was also cut as a demo acetate at Kendun in April 1976. This was an unreleased early edit of music from the orchestral sessions. The same year Zappa tried to negotiate release of an orchestral album with Columbia Masterworks, but the deal fell through when the label did not agree to Zappa's terms.

During the fall 1976 tour the Zappa band performed in front slide projector images, one of which said "Warner Bros. Sucks!" Zappa was upset over inadequate promotion. By late 1976 he was determined to complete his Warner contract as soon as possible. As early as December that year Zappa considered handing multiple individual albums over to Warner and had "more than four" currently in production. Contracts then stipulated that Zappa deliver four new albums to Warner for release on DiscReet. In December 1977 Zappa said:

Between last October and December 31 of this year I was required to deliver to Warner Brothers four completed albums. I delivered all four in March of this year.

Warner was expecting to receive only one album at a time, not four. Upon delivery the label was required to pay Zappa $60,000 per album ($240,000 total) and release the recordings in the United States within six weeks. Warner failed to honor these contractual terms.

A long legal battle between Zappa and Warner occurred, during which no Zappa material was released for more than a year. Most of the material on Läther would be released during 1978 and 1979 on Zappa in New York, Studio Tan, Sleep Dirt (previously titled Hot Rats III), and Orchestral Favorites. In an October 1978 radio interview, Zappa identified these four individual albums as the ones he previously delivered to Warner and added "Läther was made out of four albums. Warners has released two of them already and they have two more that they're probably gonna release."

The first of these four albums was a two-LP live jazz rock album and was produced with Zappa approved cover art. Two others were single disc jazz rock studio albums, while the last was made up of orchestral recordings. Therefore, the complete four individual album collection actually fills a total of five full length LPs.

After having violated the contract with Zappa, Warner scheduled the release of Zappa in New York on DiscReet in mid 1977. A "Dateline Burbank" ad in the June 30, 1977 issue of Rolling Stone magazine described the release of the album as "imminent". A few uncensored full length copies appeared but the album was quickly pulled from stores. Warner and Discreet were forced to withdraw it by November due to legal action. Zappa objected to the release at this time. He also claimed that Warner first began to manufacture the album only when they heard he had negotiated to release the recordings with a competing company.

At approximately the same time Zappa was also planning a four-LP box set titled Läther. The album was completed at the Los Angeles Record Plant and Zappa's handwriting on the tape boxes show either EMI or Arista as the intended client. Frank's wife Gail Zappa claimed that Warner, wary of a four-LP box, had declined to release the material in this format. Both sets of recordings (five-LP and four-LP) have much of the same music, but each also has unique content. Zappa announced Läther in a mid September 1977 interview, following a concert in San Diego. He described it as his "current album". Zappa also wanted to release sides two and four as a single album but this didn't happen. He said "it's only the rock 'n' roll, for people who can't afford the box."

Zappa attempted to get Läther released in the four-LP box configuration as the first release on the Zappa Records label. He briefly negotiated distribution with Capitol/EMI and then Phonogram Inc. At Phonogram the project reached the test pressing stage and was scheduled for a Halloween, October 31, 1977 release. But Warner interfered with these negotiations by claiming rights over the material. By this point Zappa had refused a music copyright license to Warner to reproduce the songs.

In December 1977 Zappa appeared on the Pasadena, California radio station KROQ and played the entire test pressing of Läther. While encouraging listeners to record the broadcast Zappa also counterclaimed that Warner did not have rights to the material. The same month Zappa said his breach of contract suit against Warner Bros. was for five million dollars but he later claimed twenty million was at stake. Bootlegs of Läther soon appeared. Some came directly from the test pressing, but most were lower quality ones sourced from broadcast tapes. Until the album's official release in 1996 the bootlegs circulated widely.

Eventually, Warner issued all four individual albums starting in March 1978 and running through May of 1979. However, the label censored the 1978 version of Zappa in New York by removing the song "Punky's Whips" as well as other references to Punky Meadows, a member of the American glam rock band Angel. The change of album title from Hot Rats III to Sleep Dirt and editing of the material were also done in violation of Zappa's contract. Since Zappa had supplied only the tapes for the final three albums they were released without musician or songwriting credits. Also, the artwork for these albums was not approved by Zappa. Instead, Warner commissioned the designs from cartoonist Gary Panter. All four individual albums went out of print when the DiscReet/Warner distribution agreement ended in 1982."

Disc One, Track 1
Frank Zappa – percussion
George Duke – keyboards
Bruce Fowler – all brass
James "Bird Legs" Youman – bass
Ruth Underwood – percussion
Chester Thompson – drums
Disc One, Track 2; Disc Two, Track 7 & 10
Frank Zappa – guitar
Dave Parlato – bass
Terry Bozzio – drums
Emil Richards – percussion
Orchestra conducted by Michael Zearott
Disc One, Track 3 (Part One)
Frank Zappa – vocal
George Duke – keyboards
Disc One, Track 3 (Part Two)
Frank Zappa – lead guitar
Andre Lewis – keyboards
Roy Estrada – bass
Terry Bozzio – drums
Disc One, Track 4, 7 & 8; Disc Three Track 6
Frank Zappa – guitar, vocals
Ray White – guitar, vocals
Eddie Jobson – violin, keyboards
Patrick O'Hearn – bass
Terry Bozzio – drums, vocals
Disc One, Track 5
Frank Zappa – all guitars, bass
Jim Gordon – drums
Disc One, Track 6
Frank Zappa – lead guitar, vocals
George Duke – keyboards
Tom Fowler – bass
Ralph Humphrey – drums
Ricky Lancelotti – vocals
Disc One, Track 9; Disc Two, Track 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8; Disc Three, Track 2
Frank Zappa – lead guitar, vocals
Ray White – rhythm guitar, vocals
Eddie Jobson – violin, keyboards, vocals
Patrick O'Hearn – bass, vocals
Terry Bozzio – drums, vocals
Ruth Underwood – percussion, synthesizer
Dave Samuels – timpani, vibes
Randy Brecker – trumpet
Michael Brecker – tenor sax, flute
Lou Marini – alto sax, flute
Ronnie Cuber – baritone sax, clarinet
Tom Malone – trombone, trumpet, piccolo
Don Pardo – sophisticated narration
Disc One, Track 10
Frank Zappa – guitar, vocals
Davey Moire – vocals
Eddie Jobson – keyboards, yodeling
Max Bennett – bass
Paul Humphrey – drums
Don Brewer – bongos
Disc One, Track 11; Disc Three, Track 4
Frank Zappa – guitar, vocals
George Duke – keyboards
Bruce Fowler – trombone
Tom Fowler – bass
Chester Thompson – drums
Disc One, Track 12; Disc Three, Track 8
Frank Zappa – guitar
George Duke – keyboards
James "Bird Legs" Youman – bass
Ruth Underwood – percussion
Chester Thompson – drums
Disc Two, Track 5 & 9
Frank Zappa – guitar
George Duke – keyboards
Patrick O'Hearn – bass
Ruth Underwood – percussion
Chester Thompson – drums
Disc Three, Track 1
Frank Zappa – guitar, keyboards
Dave Parlato – bass
Terry Bozzio – drums
Disc Three, Track 3
Frank Zappa – guitar, synthesizer
Patrick O'Hearn – bass
Terry Bozzio – drums
Disc Three, Track 5
Frank Zappa – percussion
George Duke – keyboards
Bruce Fowler – all brass
James "Bird Legs" Youman – bass
Ruth Underwood – percussion
Chad Wackerman – drum overdubs

All tracks are written by Frank Zappa.

Disc one

1. "Re-Gyptian Strut" Sleep Dirt 4:36
The exact same version that's on Sleep Dirt without the talking or the sped-up percussion. There's even a sped-up snippet of the finale of "The Pleated Gazelle" from 200 Motels according to Ulrich.. We have the humorous dialogue, the orchestral music, and Terry Bozio talking to Patrick O'Hearn about the title of the album. If you've ever seen the Baby Snakes video (I haven't), parts of that dialogue are included.

2. "Naval Aviation in Art?" Orchestral Favorites 1:32
Weird-sounding orchestral music which later found its way onto the Orchestral Favorites album. At the end there's more sped-up percussion (Frank loved this kind of stuff), and Bozzio/O'Hearn dialogue. You can hear the same dialogue at the end of "Hog Heaven" on the Shut Up 'N Play Your Guitar LP.

3. "A Little Green Rosetta" Previously unreleased. A reworked version appears on Joe's Garage. This version has a guitar solo that can be heard on "Ship Ahoy" from Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar. 2:48
Okay, so let me break this 'un down for ya: The first 51 seconds are unique to this album, but the rest of it is on the Shut Up 'N Play Your Guitar album as part of "Ship Ahoy." This is basically just a portion of Frank's "Zoot Allures" guitar solo recorded in Osaka, Japan on Feb 3, 1976. I'll talk more about this song when I get to Joe's Garage.

4. "Duck Duck Goose" Previously unreleased 3:01
The first part is a furious, hard-rockin' tune which was never released after this. Frank was soloing over the Zeppelin "Whole Lotta Love" riff. After that all the noise and sound effects are called 'grout' when discussing this LP. There's tons of excerpts from other Zappa recordings but I'll be damned if I'm gonna list them all!

5. "Down in De Dew" Previously unreleased 2:57
This was finally issued on The Guitar World According to Frank Zappa, which was a 1987 cassette that Guitar World magazine released, so I don't know why it says "unreleased" above. Nice little piece of music though, recorded in '72 at Electric Lady Studios. Frank's on a Gibson acoustic-electric guitar, an Acoustic fretless guitar, and a Hofner bass. The title is from the final line in "Uncle Remus" according to Ulrich.

6. "For the Young Sophisticate" Previously unreleased. A different version appears on Tinsel Town Rebellion. 3:14
Yeah, this one is different than the version later issued on the Tinsel Town record. This is a 1973 recording from the Over-Nite Sensation sessions. There's a "Woody Woodpecker theme" quote at around 1:43 or so, and FZ and Ricky Lancelotti sing.

7. "Tryin' to Grow a Chin" Previously unreleased. A different version appears on Sheik Yerbouti. 3:26
This is another one that's different than the version which would later be released on Sheik Yerbouti. It's from a Feb 16, 1977 performance in London with later studio overdubs. This would have been the first track on side two of the vinyl version of Läther. You've got the usual sped-up percussion grout with dialogue by Davey Moire and Terry. Roy Estrada is on vocals too.

8. "Broken Hearts Are for Assholes" Previously unreleased. A different version appears on Sheik Yerbouti. 4:40
The last of the unique-to-disc one cuts is this "Broken Hearts" song which differs from the Sheik Yerbouti track. This one was recorded in Cologne, Germany in '77 with later studio overdubs. At the end you can hear O'Hearn say "I knew you'd be surprised" which foreshadows the same line used later in "Bobby Brown Goes Down."

9. "The Legend of the Illinois Enema Bandit" Zappa in New York 12:41
This is virtually the same cut that they later used for the New York album with some vocal effects added. Since I'm going to be reviewing that record later on, I'll dispense with repeating myself here.

10. "Lemme Take You to the Beach" Studio Tan 2:46
Silly little ditty which would have begun side three of the vinyl version. This LP side would have been almost the exact same as side two of Studio Tan. There's a bit of sped-up percussion here that's not on the Studio Tan version though.

11. "Revised Music for Guitar & Low Budget Orchestra" Studio Tan 7:36
Same thing - pretty much the same Studio Tan track but with a little sped-up percussion at the very end.

12. "RDNZL" Studio Tan 8:14
More of the same. The Studio Tan cut and this time I think it's identical.

Wiki - "CD issues
After contracts with Warner and DiscReet expired Zappa chose to re-issue the four previously released individual albums on CD in 1991 along with the Panter artwork and added credits. Each of them were either remixed and or altered in various ways. The 1991 releases appeared in the US on Zappa's Barking Pumpkin label.

In 1995 Rykodisc again reissued Zappa's entire catalog up to that date. None of the four albums related to Läther were altered from the original CD issues, though new analog to digital transfers were made.

One year later, Läther was released officially through Rykodisc as a three-CD album. This edition used new 1996 artwork and was released in a plastic jewel case. Gail Zappa confirmed that the stereo master tapes for the four-LP Läther box were used as the source. While Zappa's notes from the tape boxes show a slightly different track listing, the 1996 CD version of Läther is musically identical to the 1977 test pressings. The only difference is that four bonus tracks were also added. Among these is commentary from Zappa taken from his KROQ broadcast. Also, the title of the song "One More Time for the World" was changed to "The Ocean is the Ultimate Solution", the title under which the same song appears on the album Sleep Dirt.

Along with most of Zappa's material, a "mini-LP" CD edition was also released by Rykodisc in Japan, with the artwork reformatted to resemble the packaging of a vinyl album.

In December 2012 an official reissue of Läther appeared in cardboard packaging with the original intended 1977 artwork. This version omits the 1996 bonus tracks."

ImageImage

Disc two

1. "Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me?" Zappa in New York 4:56
Basically the same, yet different from the New York version. You have the usual grout featuring sped-up percussion, dialogue from Bozzio/O'Hearn and sped-up sax. The exact same grout is on "Treacherous Cretins" on the Shut Up... LP, and there's even a part of it on the Baby Snakes video. This would have been the start of side four of the vinyl version. So to make it easier to understand, all the songs on this side ended up on Zappa in New York, but not necessarily the same performances.

2. "The Black Page #1" Zappa in New York 1:57
No grout here, and the drum solo on the New York album is absent.

3. "Big Leg Emma" Zappa in New York 2:11
OK, to further confuse you, the mix that appears here matches the original LP version of Zappa in New York, but not the CD. I'll get into that when I review the album soon. The 2012 CD has grout, but the 1996 CD puts it at the beginning of "Punky's Whips."

4. "Punky's Whips" Zappa in New York (1977 edition) 11:06
So this number was on the original New York LP, but a different edit, this time with guitar overdubs, was included on the New York CD. It's difficult for purists to get their heads around all of this stuff, so I usually don't think about it and just enjoy the music. There's the usual grout at the beginning of the track on the '96 CD, with Moire asking "What ever happened to all the fun in the world?" which is on the track with that name on Sheik Yerbouti.

5. "Flambé" Sleep Dirt 2:05
This is an edited version of the Sleep Dirt track, where it's spelled differently. Grout at the end as well. This would have been the start of side five of the vinyl version.

6. "The Purple Lagoon" Zappa in New York 16:20
So the mix that's here matches the first New York album, but not the CD. The applause at the end is edited out here too. Grout at the end. I know I'm going through this stuff fast, but I'll take more time when I get to the actual albums these songs were originally released on. If I reviewed everything now, I'd have nothing to say later on.

7. "Pedro's Dowry" Orchestral Favorites 7:45
Since the stereo image of the Orchestral album was reversed when it made its CD debut, this Läther version matches the original Orchestral LP mix. This would have been the beginning of side six of the vinyl version. The grout at the end is in part on the Baby Snakes video as well.

8. "Läther" Zappa in New York (under the title "I Promise Not to Come In Your Mouth") 3:50
This matches the New York LP version, not the CD one, which has a different edit from the same two performances. There's the usual grout at the end and once again part of it can be heard on the Baby Snakes vid.

9. "Spider of Destiny" Sleep Dirt 2:40
An edit of the version on Sleep Dirt, which I should mention (Sleep Dirt) the twentieth century CDs have overdubbed vocals not found on previous versions. As per usual, I'll get into all of that when I review the LP.

10. "The Duke of Orchestral Prunes" Orchestral Favorites 4:21
So again, this matches the original LP of Orchestral, not the reversed-channel CD mix.

ImageImage

Disc three

1. "Filthy Habits" Sleep Dirt 7:12
Edited version of the same track which ended up on Sleep Dirt. There's a lot of grout at the end containing sped-up orchestral outtakes from the 200 Motels sessions. Zappa loved this kind of thing. Parts of the grout can be heard on "What Ever Happened to All the Fun in the World?" on Sheik Yerbouti, and "Easy Meat" on Tinsel Town Rebellion. This would have been the start of side seven on the vinyl Läther.

2. "Titties & Beer" Zappa in New York 5:23
Edit of the New York CD version. Since that version goes on a bit, I may actually prefer this one.

3. "The Ocean Is the Ultimate Solution" Sleep Dirt 8:31
A lot has been edited out of this version compared to the Sleep Dirt one. That's one thing you can say about the songs here which ended up on later LPs, they're longer elsewhere. So if you want to hear the full-lengths of these tracks, look to the individual albums of '78 and '79.

4. "The Adventures of Greggery Peccary" Studio Tan 21:00
By far the longest song here, this is the same mix as on the Studio Tan LP/CD, but not the twentieth century CDs. Further explanation forthcoming folks. It is a different edit though. This would have been side eight of the vinyl version. Frank loved this cut, and considered it a masterpiece.

"Release and Reception
The official version of Läther was finally released with the authorization of Gail Zappa in September 1996, nearly three years after Frank's death.

It is still debated as to whether Zappa had conceived the material as a four-LP box set from the beginning, or only later when working with Phonogram around September-October 1977. In the liner notes to the 1996 release, Gail states that "As originally conceived by Frank, Läther was always a 4-record box set." Despite this claim, however, there is no evidence that Zappa ever delivered the four-LP Läther set to Warner, only the four individual albums. Zappa himself actually contradicted Gail's posthumous claims that Warner had broken up Läther into other albums. Several interviews published in 1978 and an album review from 1996 explicitly state that Zappa re-edited the four individual albums into the Läther four-LP box and then presented it to Phonogram.

In a January 1978 Zappa interview the British publication New Musical Express said:

"Since his (Warner) contract had allegedly been breached, Zappa took his copy tapes of the four albums, added some new material, subtracted some old, and prepared a four-record set called Läther, but pronounced "Leather".

Allmusic writer Richie Unterberger praised the album, but wrote that it would "appeal far more to the Zappa cultist than the general listener, though the Zappa cult – which has been craving Läther in its original format for years – is a pretty wide fan base in and of itself." - Wikipedia

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
Last edited by Matt Wilson on 21 Apr 2022, 18:19, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 32515
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby Matt Wilson » 20 Apr 2022, 16:53

double post

User avatar
ConnyOlivetti
Probing The Sonic Heritage
Posts: 10588
Joined: 06 Nov 2003, 07:14
Location: Below The North Pole
Contact:

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 21 Apr 2022, 11:18

Läther
a masterpiece
probably my fav of his albums
Charlie O. wrote:I think Coan and Googa are right.


Un enfant dans electronica!
Je suis!

User avatar
mudshark
Posts: 2144
Joined: 25 Jul 2003, 03:51

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby mudshark » 21 Apr 2022, 18:21

I think it's great that it got released, and I'm still hoping it will be properly released on vinyl. There's a limited Japanese pressing from 1996. It does $450.00 on average on Discogs. I'm not going to pay that kind of money for used vinyl. It's a wonderful collage of everything Zappa. Like Matt writes, virtually all of it was released earlier on separate albums and I prefer playing those for some reason.
There's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over

User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 32515
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby Matt Wilson » 21 Apr 2022, 18:27

mudshark wrote:virtually all of it was released earlier on separate albums and I prefer playing those for some reason.

I think I prefer the material spread out on the other albums too. For one thing, there's less of that grout I mentioned above, and the versions of the songs are for the most part longer on the later LPs than they were on Läther.

User avatar
C
Robust
Posts: 78998
Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 19:06

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby C » 21 Apr 2022, 18:45

Matt Wilson wrote:
mudshark wrote:virtually all of it was released earlier on separate albums and I prefer playing those for some reason.

I think I prefer the material spread out on the other albums too. For one thing, there's less of that grout I mentioned above, and the versions of the songs are for the most part longer on the later LPs than they were on Läther.


If somebody just wanted one Zappa album (and was perhaps a novice) then Läther is the one to have.

All the styles are here

A fantastically rich and diverse masterpiece



.
Lord Rother wrote:And there was me thinking you'd say "Fair enough, you have a point Bob".

User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 32515
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby Matt Wilson » 21 Apr 2022, 19:26

C wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:
mudshark wrote:virtually all of it was released earlier on separate albums and I prefer playing those for some reason.

I think I prefer the material spread out on the other albums too. For one thing, there's less of that grout I mentioned above, and the versions of the songs are for the most part longer on the later LPs than they were on Läther.


If somebody just wanted one Zappa album (and was perhaps a novice) then Läther is the one to have.

All the styles are here

A fantastically rich and diverse masterpiece



.


Good point. Like I said, had it been released in its 1977 box set version, Läther would be his best '70s LP.

User avatar
C
Robust
Posts: 78998
Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 19:06

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby C » 21 Apr 2022, 23:22

Matt Wilson wrote: Like I said, had it been released in its 1977 box set version, Läther would be his best '70s LP.


Hmm... Not sure about that




.
Lord Rother wrote:And there was me thinking you'd say "Fair enough, you have a point Bob".

User avatar
Fonz
Posts: 4088
Joined: 17 Feb 2014, 14:10
Location: Nevermore

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby Fonz » 22 Apr 2022, 15:28

Another great write-up.

It’s a great album, whether taken as one, or in chunks.

Inevitably, it could be lightly trimmed, say to two discs, and the result would be truly stellar… but everyone’s editing choices would be different, so it is what it is.

I’ve never liked the cover though, ‘Italian cow hide’ notwithstanding
Heyyyy!

"Fonz clearly has no fucks to give. I like the cut of his Cupicidal gib."

User avatar
mudshark
Posts: 2144
Joined: 25 Jul 2003, 03:51

Re: Frank Zappa

Postby mudshark » 22 Apr 2022, 18:02

It probably would have been seen as his best post-MOI album.
There's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over


Return to “Yakety Yak”