King Crimson

Do talk back
User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 31306
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: King Crimson

Postby Matt Wilson » 15 Nov 2021, 16:28

Image
Red 1974
I don't know what the consensus is as to what the second best KC album would be after In the Court of..., but it's either this or Larks' Tongues I'd wager. This one is less experimental, more listener-friendly, and would probably please the rockist tendencies in much of our collective tastes. Reduced to the trio of Fripp, Bruford, and Wetton, the music is simplified (I don't know if that's the right word, really) or redacted to its core essentials - and every track counts. Having said that, David Cross provides violin on "Providence," Mel Collins does sax on "Starless," and Ian McDonald is back for alto sax on "Starless," and "One More Red Nightmare." So it's not really just the three guys on the LP cover.

Wiki - "Red is the seventh studio album by English progressive rock band King Crimson. It was released on 6 October 1974 through Island Records in the United Kingdom and Atlantic Records in North America and Japan. The album was recorded at Olympic Studios in London in July and August 1974, and produced by the band themselves. The track "Providence" was a free improvisation recorded at their 30 June 1974 concert at the Palace Theater in the city of the same name. Parts of some of the pieces were conceived during previous improvisations performed by the band live. "Starless" was originally considered for their previous album, Starless and Bible Black (1974), but was considered incomplete at the time. The lengthy version included on this album was refined and performed during concerts throughout 1974.

Red is a progressive rock album with a noticeably heavier sound than their previous albums; it was later called one of the 50 "heaviest albums of all time" by Q. This was achieved with the performances of just three band members: guitarist Robert Fripp, bassist and vocalist John Wetton and drummer Bill Bruford. The dense sound of the album was created by use of significant layering, multiple guitar overdubs, and key guest appearances by musicians including founding King Crimson member Ian McDonald, classical oboist Robin Miller and English jazz trumpeter Marc Charig.

Roughly two weeks prior to the release of Red, King Crimson disbanded. The album turned out to be their lowest-charting album at that time, spending only one week in the UK Album Chart at No. 45 and the US Billboard 200 at No. 66. However, it was well received among fans and critics. It has received further praise retrospectively, being recognized as one of the band's best works, and has been re-issued many times."

Robert Fripp – electric guitar (all tracks), acoustic guitar (2), Mellotron (2, 4, 5), Hohner pianet (5)
John Wetton – bass (all tracks), vocals (2–3, 5)
Bill Bruford – drums (all tracks), percussion (3–5)

Former King Crimson personnel
David Cross – violin (4)
Mel Collins – soprano saxophone (5)
Ian McDonald – alto saxophone (3, 5)

Additional personnel
Mark Charig – cornet (2)
Robin Miller – oboe (2)
uncredited – cello (1-2, 5),[2] double bass (5)

1. "Red" (Robert Fripp) 6:20
Great riffage announces our heroes' last studio LP of the '70s with authority. I get this riff stuck in my head sometimes for days. Almost a metal-like flavor to it, really. Crimson didn't need vocals much of the time. Robert had hardened his writing down to its essentials by this time. Pity the band didn't proceed after this. Wikipedia: "Red" was covered by Canadian rock band Glueleg in their 1994 debut Heroic Doses, with this version featuring saxophone and trumpet. "Red" was also ranked as the twentieth best progressive rock song of all time by PopMatters, as well as number 87 in Rolling Stone's list of "The 100 Greatest Guitar Songs". Additionally, "Red" has been considered an influence on avant-garde metal.

Near the conclusion of King Crimson's 1974 US and Canada tour, the decision was made to ask David Cross to leave the band. EG, the band's management, urged Fripp not to tell Cross until after the final date of the tour, but he would not be able to do this anyway as Fripp would not return from the United States until after Cross would return to Europe. Fripp reached an agreement with EG management that they would tell Cross, "on proviso that [Cross] was told that I objected to not telling him personally." Despite reaching this agreement, Cross would not be told by EG until the day before the recording of Red began. In his stead, the band brought back several contributors to past albums: Robin Miller on oboe, Marc Charig on cornet, former King Crimson members Ian McDonald and Mel Collins on saxophones, as well as an uncredited cellist and acoustic bassist.

Red sees King Crimson follow in the direction established by their previous two albums, Larks' Tongues in Aspic and Starless and Bible Black, but in contrast to those albums, Red features more layered production with multiple overdubs, as well as the return of the earlier instrumentation of the guest players. Red's heavier tone was largely due to the influence of the rhythm section, Wetton and Bruford, whom Fripp has referred to as "a flying brick wall". During the recording of the album, Fripp took a "backseat" when making large decisions. He had decided to take "a year's sabbatical ... at Bennett's Institute," and offered the idea of McDonald rejoining the band in his absence to EG. When this idea was met with lack of interest, Fripp abruptly disbanded King Crimson on 24 September 1974, and Red was released two weeks later.

"Red" was composed solely by Robert Fripp. In an analysis of the piece by Andrew Keeling, he describes "Red" as "an instrumental piece scored for electric guitar (multi-tracked in three layers), bass guitar and drums," as well as "one of the more muscular pieces of Robert Fripp's, in particular the deployment of open strings and heavily attacked and syncopated bass and drums." In an online diary from 2012, Robert Fripp speaks about the development of "Red": "A motif; moved from [the missing piece] "Blue" to "Red": the opening and closing theme of "Red" itself. The driving, relentless figure that follows it, and the middle figure played by the basses, weren't enough for a complete piece." Speaking about it in the book accompanying the Larks' Tongues in Aspic: The Complete Recordings box set, he says, "After we had just recorded the track "Red" in [Olympic Studios] ... we played it back and Bill said, 'I don't get it, but if you tell me it's good, I trust you.' ... I said, 'We don't have to use it.' John was in no doubt: 'We'll use it.'" An unused variation of the song's middle section would later emerge in 1983, during the writing rehearsals for Three of a Perfect Pair. Though it went unused, it finally saw light in 1995, more than two decades later, as the middle section of the instrumental "VROOOM VROOOM" on THRAK."

2. "Fallen Angel" (Robert Fripp, John Wetton, Richard Palmer-James) 6:00
What sounds like backwards guitar starts us off and we hear John's vocals for the first time as well. If Greg Lake is my favorite Crimso vocalist, then surely Wetton comes in second. They did these ballads well, with an equal affinity for both rockers and slower numbers. Not that this is really a ballad for its duration, merely not as intense as the first track.

"Much of the material on Red has origins in improvisation. Motifs that would eventually be used for "Fallen Angel" were first played by Robert Fripp in 1972, as part of improvs performed with the quintet lineup that would record Larks' Tongues In Aspic. These improvisations are documented as "Fallen Angel" and "Fallen Angel Hullabaloo" in the Larks' Tongues in Aspic: The Complete Recordings box set, as well as standalone releases of their respective concerts. The distinctive introduction to "One More Red Nightmare" was also deployed by John Wetton and Robert Fripp in various improvs throughout 1974, which can be heard in the Starless (box set) and The Road to Red box sets. One notable performance including this introduction is titled "The Golden Walnut". Lastly, "Providence" itself was an improv, taken from the group's show on 30th June in Providence, Rhode Island. It was included in its uncut form as part of various live sets, such as The Great Deceiver, as well as the 40th Anniversary Edition of Red itself."

3. "One More Red Nightmare" (Robert Fripp, John Wetton) 7:07
More metallic riffage from the guitar of the king of Crimsons. These songs would sound great on the airwaves had any DJ or program director the balls to play them. This combines "Red's" power with "Fallen Angel's" vocals for yet another killer KC cut to end side one. As I listen to this, I feel this LP is tremendous.

Wiki: "Released in October 1974, Red spent only one week on the British charts, at No. 45, whereas all the band's previous studio albums had reached the Top 30. In the United States, it reached No. 66 on the Billboard 200. However, it remained a popular album with fans and critics.

Retrospective reviews were resoundingly positive. In theirs, AllMusic declared Red to be weaker than its two predecessors, but nonetheless a superlative work: "few intact groups could have gotten an album as good as Red together. The fact that it was put together by a band in its death throes makes it all the more impressive an achievement." Robert Christgau also applauded the album, having been generally critical of the group's past work, calling it "Grand, powerful, grating, and surprisingly lyrical" and commenting that "this does for classical-rock fusion what John McLaughlin's Devotion did for jazz-rock fusion." Classic Rock reviewer considered Red "a walk down a lightless corridor and an unhappy and ferocious counterbalance to the frolics of King Crimson's beginnings", and described it as "dark, brooding and laden with heavily distorted sections and a decidedly melancholic vibe".

Image

4. "Providence" (David Cross, Robert Fripp, John Wetton, Bill Bruford) 8:08
Back to naming live tracks after the cities they were recorded in, a practice KC kept on doing for quite some time after the seventies, this begins with Cross' violin playing muted lines for some time before the rest of the band comes barreling in. I tend to enjoy their in-concert improvisational numbers feeling this to be the band's forte, actually. If you can play like this in such a spontaneous manner, why not show off a little, right?

Wikipedia: "The lyrics to the three songs on the album were not originally included as part of the packaging for the album, unlike all previous Crimson studio albums, which always had lyrics printed either on the inside of the gatefold covers, or on the custom innersleeves. This led to some occasional confusion amongst listeners about precisely what was being sung, particularly on the song "One More Red Nightmare." The first printing of the lyrics would occur 26 years after the album's initial release, on the 2000 '30th Anniversary Edition' release.

Like most of King Crimson's catalog, Red has been re-released numerous times since 1974. First issued on Compact Disc in 1986, it has also been released as part of the "Definitive Edition" series in 1989, and the "30th Anniversary Edition" series in 1999. In 2009, Red was chosen, alongside In the Court of the Crimson King and Lizard, to launch the "40th Anniversary Edition" series. As part of this series, each album is presented in a CD/DVD-A package, with new stereo and 5.1 surround mixes crafted by Steven Wilson. Unlike the other editions in the series, however, Red launched with no new stereo mix. In 2013, Wilson and Fripp created a new stereo mix for The Road To Red boxed set, and this mix was also issued separately as part of a 2CD package."


5. "Starless" (David Cross, Robert Fripp, John Wetton, Bill Bruford, Richard Palmer-James) 12:18
A definite highlight in an album full of them. Love everything about this cut - the melody, lyrics, performance, etc. It almost sounds like an upgrade of the sound they achieved on "Epitath" earlier. What a way to go out (until Discipline, of course!).

"Starless" was originally written by Wetton, with the intent of it being the title track for Starless and Bible Black. At the time, the piece consisted only of the vocal section of the song, and Wetton claims that it got a "cold reception" from both Robert Fripp and Bill Bruford. Later, an introductory theme was written by Robert Fripp and performed on violin by David Cross, and two additional sections were added after the vocal, one being contributed by Bruford. The final section reprises various themes from earlier in the song, and it also re-uses a bass part which was originally written for the song "Fracture". This early arrangement of "Fracture" can be heard on discs 1 and 25 of the Starless box set, as well as the standalone releases of their respective concerts. The lyrics went through several iterations, with one early verse later included by Wetton in "Caesar's Palace Blues," a song he would perform with U.K. Since the title "Starless and Bible Black" was already used for an improvisation on the group's previous album, the song's title was shortened to "Starless". On Red, "Starless" is credited to the quartet, as well as lyricist Richard Palmer-James.

Musicologists Eric Tamm and Edward Macan both consider Red, particularly the track "Starless", to be the highlight of King Crimson's recorded output. "Starless" is played over the opening titles of the 2018 horror film Mandy."

Image
it's weird how carlsson has managed to get wilson over a barrel and then persuade him to let the rest of the PROG goons perform anal chugs on him in said position.

my point is that wilson has sold his arse cheaply. it's embarrassing to read.

-skope

User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 31306
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: King Crimson

Postby Matt Wilson » 15 Nov 2021, 17:25

Image
USA 1975
USA is a hell-fire live LP which ranks amongst the best in-concert prog albums I've heard. Up there with Yessongs, Welcome Back My Friends, Seconds Out, or any other one you care to name. it's too bad it wasn't a double LP because it easily could have been. The Road to Red box set gives you many of the shows on the '74 tour of the States, including the two which were used for this record. Some of the songs were edited for release, as you can imagine, so the full concerts give you the complete performances. I highly recommend you get a copy of the box if you're a fan of this platter, you won't be disappointed. Much better than Earthbound, not to mention better-recorded. The group were at an all-time peak in terms of their performance and improvisational abilities and it's in this setting that Crimson's talents should be evaluated. I've already gone over all of the songs, so comments will be shortened.

Robert Fripp – guitar, Mellotron
John Wetton – bass guitar, vocals
David Cross – violin, viola, Mellotron, electric piano (except on 2,3,7 of original release)
Bill Bruford – drums, percussion

Additional musician

Eddie Jobson – violin (2 & 7), electric piano (3)

1. "Walk On... No Pussyfooting" (Brian Eno, Robert Fripp) 0:35
The shows on this tour opened with a bit of No Pussyfooting music as if to advertise Fripp's 'other job' activities. I wonder how much of the audience even knew what they were listening to?

Wiki: "The album opens with a brief excerpt of "The Heavenly Music Corporation" from (No Pussyfooting), an album Robert Fripp recorded with musician and producer Brian Eno. While it was not listed as a separate track on the original album, it is present on all releases."

2. "Larks' Tongues in Aspic (Part II)" (Robert Fripp) 7:03
The heaviest of Rob's riffs always sounded great in concert, like the anvil of the gods was smashing down on listeners. They even have Jobson on overdubbed violin here. So that means Eddie recorded with Zappa, Crimson, UK, Tull, and God knows who else in the '70s.

"USA is a live album by the English band King Crimson, released in 1975. It was recorded at the Casino, Asbury Park, New Jersey, on 28 June 1974, except “21st Century Schizoid Man”, which was recorded at the Palace Theatre, Providence, Rhode Island, United States, on 30 June 1974. Violin and electric piano overdubs by Eddie Jobson were recorded at Olympic Studios, London in 1975.

Live recording was performed by George Chkiantz and David Hewitt using the Record Plant Remote Truck." - Wikipedia

3. "Lament" (Robert Fripp, John Wetton, Richard Palmer-James) 4:21
I don't know why, but these numbers sound really good live, like this is the environment they should be presented in. Crimson could be seen as an exquisite studio band, sure - but they can also be considered in terms of their excellent performances on stage in front of an audience as well.

4. "Exiles" David Cross, Robert Fripp, Richard Palmer-James) 7:09
I think I started to love this song based on all the live versions on the box set rather than the studio cut. Much like a lot of Grateful Dead numbers, frankly.

"There have been four releases of the album:

Original vinyl release in 1975. Includes tracks 1 - 7 (although track 1 & 2 are combined) with Eddie Jobson's overdubs.

30th Anniversary Remaster released 2002. Added tracks 8 & 9 to original release, credited track 1.

2005 mix of original multi-track tapes by Ronan Chris Murphy at DGM. Released as download from dgmlive.com in 2005 and on CD as disc two of The Collectable King Crimson Vol. 1 in 2006. This edition is now the full Asbury Park concert, without overdubs, and in the proper running order. Includes all tracks, with the uncut versions of "Asbury Park" and "Easy Money"; "21st Century Schizoid Man" is moved to be the last track and is now the version from Asbury Park rather than Providence, Rhode Island. Does not include Eddie Jobson's overdubs.

2013 mix by original multi-track tapes by Robert Fripp, Tony Arnold and David Singleton at the Courthouse, Cranborne, Dorset. Same track order and versions as release #3. Splits improv at end of track 6 into its own track. This mix is available on The Road to Red and the 40th Anniversary edition of USA. - Wiki

Image

5. "Asbury Park" (David Cross, Robert Fripp, Bill Bruford, John Wetton) 7:06
There's a lot of improv on this record, but this entire track is improvisational, so it's like "Providence" on Red in that regard, but better. This is one of the numbers severely edited on the LP from its actual in-concert length. You do get the overdubs on the record, but I'm not sure this music needs them. Best case scenario would be to take the unedited performances and put them in the sequence used for the album - for the ultimate USA listening experience.

6. "Easy Money" (Robert Fripp, John Wetton, Richard Palmer-James) 6:41
Another one I grew to love after hearing the endless live versions on the box. There really isn't a mediocre cut to be found here - but one can say that about the last three Crimson albums too. Wiki - "“Asbury Park” and “Easy Money” were edited to about half their original lengths for the LP release. The unedited versions were released digitally on dgmlive.com in 2005, along with the rest of the show in original running order."

7. "21st Century Schizoid Man" (Robert Fripp, Michael Giles, Greg Lake, Ian McDonald, Peter Sinfield) 8:40
No matter how many times you hear this tune, it always seems like the pinnacle of something. Can't tell you how many live versions of this number they've released...

Wiki - "Jobson plays violin on “Larks’ Tongues in Aspic (Part II)” and “21st Century Schizoid Man”, and Fender electric piano on “Lament” to improve the poor sound quality of the original parts played by David Cross.

On the original UK vinyl release, the audience noise after the end of the last track was embedded in a locked groove, leaving the applause to go on as long as the phonograph needle remained on the record."

Image
it's weird how carlsson has managed to get wilson over a barrel and then persuade him to let the rest of the PROG goons perform anal chugs on him in said position.

my point is that wilson has sold his arse cheaply. it's embarrassing to read.

-skope

User avatar
C
Robust
Posts: 66483
Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 19:06

Re: King Crimson

Postby C » 15 Nov 2021, 18:33

The extended version of USA is fantastically robust

Red is a great album but, for me, not as strong as Larks' or Bible Black.

I know I am in the minority.

The last Crimso album then they came back as Discipline




.
DarknessFish wrote:Rother's picture quiz is cool, but I'm losing the will when you end up trying to guess albums by The Pineapple Thief.

John_K wrote:In my 50s I've become an Apprentice Prog Goon, starting with the big-hitters, and working my way to BBT...

User avatar
mudshark
Posts: 968
Joined: 25 Jul 2003, 03:51

Re: King Crimson

Postby mudshark » 15 Nov 2021, 19:54

I thought they were only called Discipline for a brief period, and themselves decided to name then KC again and call their next (excellent, which makes it unique in their entire oeuvre) album Discipline. Is that incorrect?
There's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over

User avatar
ConnyOlivetti
Probing The Sonic Heritage
Posts: 10412
Joined: 06 Nov 2003, 07:14
Location: Below The North Pole
Contact:

Re: King Crimson

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 15 Nov 2021, 20:47

mudshark wrote:I thought they were only called Discipline for a brief period, and themselves decided to name then KC again and call their next (excellent, which makes it unique in their entire oeuvre) album Discipline. Is that incorrect?

Correct!
But C want accept it
Charlie O. wrote:I think Coan and Googa are right.


Un enfant dans electronica!
Je suis!

User avatar
Sneelock
Posts: 14038
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 23:56
Location: Lincoln Head City

Re: King Crimson

Postby Sneelock » 15 Nov 2021, 21:01

"Discipline" is a great name for that record, IMO it's one LOUSY name for a band.
uggy poopy doody.

User avatar
Hightea
Posts: 3451
Joined: 16 Apr 2015, 02:18
Location: NY state

Re: King Crimson

Postby Hightea » 15 Nov 2021, 21:18

C wrote:The extended version of USA is fantastically robust

Red is a great album but, for me, not as strong as Larks' or Bible Black.

I know I am in the minority.





.


yeap I think its better than both those albums although not by much.

Matt Wilson wrote:"that means Eddie recorded with Zappa, Crimson, UK, Tull, and God knows who else in the '70s."

don't forget Roxy Music too.

User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 31306
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: King Crimson

Postby Matt Wilson » 16 Nov 2021, 00:25

Ha, I didn't forget - don't think I ever knew it.
it's weird how carlsson has managed to get wilson over a barrel and then persuade him to let the rest of the PROG goons perform anal chugs on him in said position.

my point is that wilson has sold his arse cheaply. it's embarrassing to read.

-skope

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 36252
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: King Crimson

Postby yomptepi » 17 Nov 2021, 11:01

C wrote:The extended version of USA is fantastically robust

Red is a great album but, for me, not as strong as Larks' or Bible Black.


.


I think they work seamlessly as a trilogy. I really couldn't pick a favourite.

I tend to disregard completely any of the albums with the wretched Belew on them. I have no idea what Fripp was thinking letting him anywhere near the band. For me USA is the last King Crimson album until the new live albums started appearing.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
C
Robust
Posts: 66483
Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 19:06

Re: King Crimson

Postby C » 17 Nov 2021, 12:56

yomptepi wrote:
C wrote:The extended version of USA is fantastically robust

Red is a great album but, for me, not as strong as Larks' or Bible Black.


.


I think they work seamlessly as a trilogy. I really couldn't pick a favourite.

I tend to disregard completely any of the albums with the wretched Belew on them. I have no idea what Fripp was thinking letting him anywhere near the band. For me USA is the last King Crimson album until the new live albums started appearing.


Agree on all counts Michael

Good lad




.
DarknessFish wrote:Rother's picture quiz is cool, but I'm losing the will when you end up trying to guess albums by The Pineapple Thief.

John_K wrote:In my 50s I've become an Apprentice Prog Goon, starting with the big-hitters, and working my way to BBT...

User avatar
The Slider
Self-Aggrandising Cock
Posts: 47667
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:05
Location: I'm only here for the sneer
Contact:

Re: King Crimson

Postby The Slider » 17 Nov 2021, 13:36

Matt Wilson wrote:Ha, I didn't forget - don't think I ever knew it.



He was in Yes for a brief period too - though he never played a live show or recorded with them.
There are 'issues' still

"OK folks... you asked:

I have been thinking about my hesitation in answering in detail about my time with Yes, and have concluded that a full explanation would be incomplete without some understanding of the social background of the London music scene in the ‘70s and ‘80s. To give a thorough and honest answer, I would have to get into some very personal recollections and history… and I have decided that too many personal details, especially of others, would serve nobody well. So, after 23 years of silence on the matter, here is a somewhat abridged version:

I remember, around 1974 and still a fairly fresh teenage transplant to “the South,” observing there to be quite a self-congratulatory social club (of which I was not a member) of successful musicians, moneyed hoorays and fashionistas occupying the trendy upper-end London social tier. They drove Bentleys and Aston Martins, lived in very large houses in Surrey (or trendy apartments within a stone’s throw of Knightsbridge or Chelsea), belonged to the same charities, and met one another for lengthy alcohol-soaked lunches and dinners at London’s most tony restaurants and private clubs. A small subset of this crowd was a sorority of ‘group wives’ who spent large amounts of their husbands’ money shopping on the Kings Road and who effervesced at sharing a charity event with Princess Fergie or being invited to a garden party at McCartney’s mansion.

As a young musician, this social environment formed much of the elite backdrop to the world of the successful ‘art’ bands (Roxy, Genesis, Floyd, Yes, etc…) and I remember vividly—even as Roxy were at the top of their game and at the top of the charts—a strong sense of estrangement from this self-impressed and moneyed social clique. As naïve as it may have been, I really was in it for the music.

However, my Roxy association did allow me some lesser place in the club, and my talent gave rise to many requests for my musical participation, including one call, in 1974, to assess my interest in replacing the newly departed Rick Wakeman in Yes. My impression of Yes was that they were a musically very impressive (and of course, extremely successful) band, but that they, too, were hugely impressed with their own status and were living on a lavishly grand scale. There also was that hippie/cosmic/druggie side that I knew would likely make it even harder for me to connect with them socially. For several years, I had seen Chris Squire showily driving around town in his huge and very distinctive maroon Bentley like some aristocratic Lord, and it seemed obvious that, as dismissively as Roxy and their camarilla were treating me, the Yes milieu would be even more unfriendly to this Northern teenager – so I boldly conveyed my ‘lack of interest’ in the Yes gig (in actual fact, I was somewhat excited by the concept of playing with Yes at their peak, but my instincts told me this would be an unwelcoming situation).

Fast forward almost six years… I had extricated myself from that disturbingly self-important London scene completely, from EG Management and Sun Artists (Yes’ management—who co-managed ‘UK’) and had happily relocated to the U.S., permanently removing myself from what I found to be an uncharitable world of supercilious people and expensive drug habits. Around the same time, I also disbanded U.K.—as part of the same purge. It was a fresh start, and the Green Album would be my solo venture as an independent free-spirit, surrounded by new friends—dare I say ‘all good people,’ with similar values to mine.

However, in early 1983, toward the end of the Green Album period, I received a call from an executive with Atlantic Records who was with Chris Squire and his new band “Cinema” in London. Despite my complete lack of interest in joining Squire’s new band, the phone conversation went on for several hours as he virtually begged me to participate on their new album (the record that would become “90215”) . This time my ‘lack of interest’ was real, I literally had zero enthusiasm for being in Squire’s band back in London. So original Yes keyboardist Tony Kaye was invited in for the album recording (which also apparently didn’t work out either, as he departed at the producer’s request after a very short period, leaving the keyboard duties to the production team.)

Later that year, with the Green Album finally completed, I happened to be visiting London as part of a promotional tour when I received a message (in the U.S.) that ‘Cinema’ was now ‘Yes,’ Jon Anderson had joined the band again, and that the album had come out really well. Oh, and they still needed a keyboard player... When they found out I was actually in London, new boy Trevor Rabin arranged to come round to play me the finished album. Trevor Horn (my favourite producer at the time) had done a fantastic job. All in all, though musically a little superficial, it was a fresh and contemporary recording, and with the ‘Yes’ name, a potential hit song (“Owner of a Lonely Heart”), Atlantic Records, and a well-funded support team behind it, it was clearly destined for considerably more commercial success than my struggling Green Album. With unlimited amounts of money flying around, my living in Connecticut was no problem; Jon was living in France, and Rabin and the new manager were living in Los Angeles. After all these years, maybe it was time for me to finally join Yes?

A couple of days later, we got together in a rehearsal room and thrashed through a few tunes, including ‘Roundabout’ (actually not knowing the song too well, I had to figure out Rick’s tricky keyboard parts on the spot – no easy task). But everyone seemed happy, so I returned to the U.S. as a full member of Yes and with a world tour only two or three months away. There was virtually no contact with anyone for several weeks as I learned all the Yes material in my home studio, although I did attend the mastering of the album with Rabin in New York. In fact, now I think about it, not one single band member ever called me, for any reason, during my entire stint with the group (or since).

The illusion of ‘equal membership’ soon became apparently false, especially once the filming of the “Owner of a Lonely Heart” video took place. Lord Squire’s indulgences (and the ubiquitous Bentley) were back in my face, and money was being squandered at an alarming rate. It was time-warp back to the 1970s. Roadies followed you around making sure you never had to lift even the smallest bag, and Chris was insisting on a private Boeing 707 for the tour! The grand lifestyle was being funded once again and egos were newly inflated. Despite my considerable experiences with Roxy, Zappa, UK, and Tull (a wonderful group of guys who treated me with considerable respect), and with more than 30 albums and a self-managed solo career under my belt, no one was interested in any wisdom I may have been able to impart, on any subject… even on the keyboard rig design which had already been decided upon. It was an inflated ‘Spinal Tap’ on so many levels, and I had unwittingly been sucked back into almost the same world of disregard that I had rejected so many years earlier. But I had made a commitment and I wanted to see it through.

Several weeks later, back in the U.S. where I continued to work on the considerable Yes repertoire, I did finally receive a phone call from someone—it was the manager who had been given the unceremonious task of informing me that Tony Kaye was re-joining the group and would be sharing keyboard duties with me. No discussion, no conferring… a done deal. And the reason? They needed three original members to put to rest a dispute with Brian Lane (their old manager), Steve Howe and Rick Wakeman regarding the legitimacy of the new band using the ‘Yes’ name. My youthful instincts were reawakened, there were red flags waving, and sirens going off... why was I doing this exactly? Still no call from anyone in the band, no discussions of alternate remedies, no apologies, just take it or leave it… so I hearkened to the words of their own song and chose to ‘leave it.’

Of course, the album and world tour went on to enormous success; Tony Kaye’s playing was supplemented by another player hidden off-stage; and the embarrassingly lame video had to be edited at the insistence of the BBC (to remove the disgusting ‘maggot’ scene), during which time they also removed as many of my scenes as possible.

Thanks, guys. All in all, the most disrespectful and unpleasant of all my band experiences (as brief as it was), and, with the occasional derisive remark from Squire or Allan White still showing up on the internet, one that still causes me undeserved anguish, embarrassment, and regret.

Post-script 1: The above description of the smug coterie that made up much of the British music-business elite in the ‘70s and ‘80s also serves the purpose of explaining much of the ill-feeling left percolating in the memories of more than a few of us more music-focused professionals. It also explains, in some part, the continuingly rude behaviour of some of that scene’s most indulgent subscribers (not mentioning any particular Arschlock by name, of course). It is ironic that those most included in that most exclusionary clique, now seem to be the most embittered and malicious.

Post-script 2: Some might ask why I would have a Yes page on the website. My answer is that I don’t have a category for ‘Bands I Didn’t Join and Should Have’ or for ‘Bands I Did Join and Shouldn’t Have.’ It was not a Guest Appearance; I was a member; there is a long history of connectivity (from Bruford to Asia); I am still in the video; I have pictures; it is part of my story.

Post-script 3: Jon Anderson has always been friendly, welcoming and respectful. His only culpability in this hurtful episode was in being so passive.
"
Complete Prince Mp3 set - on a purple usb drive - available in the usual place if anyone wants it
Image

User avatar
Neil Jung
Watcher Of The Skies
Posts: 10786
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 18:36
Location: In the deepest ocean, bottom of the sea

Re: King Crimson

Postby Neil Jung » 17 Nov 2021, 13:44

Interesting. I had his Green album but seem to have sold it.
[indistinct chatter]

User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 31306
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: King Crimson

Postby Matt Wilson » 17 Nov 2021, 14:39

Interesting, and not surprising either. Too bad about Squire though - always liked him.
it's weird how carlsson has managed to get wilson over a barrel and then persuade him to let the rest of the PROG goons perform anal chugs on him in said position.

my point is that wilson has sold his arse cheaply. it's embarrassing to read.

-skope

User avatar
The Slider
Self-Aggrandising Cock
Posts: 47667
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:05
Location: I'm only here for the sneer
Contact:

Re: King Crimson

Postby The Slider » 17 Nov 2021, 14:45

Well, while I don't doubt that any of it is true, I think it says as much about EJ as it does about CS
Complete Prince Mp3 set - on a purple usb drive - available in the usual place if anyone wants it
Image

User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 31306
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: King Crimson

Postby Matt Wilson » 17 Nov 2021, 16:23

Image
Fripp & Eno - Evening Star 1975
Second collaboration between these two, there would be more but they're outside the time frame of this thread, so this will be the last I will review. Crimson was defunct by late '75 when this LP was released, and Evening Star was the last record to list Robert's name on the album cover until 1979. Work with Peter Gabriel and Bowie kept him busy I guess, but it's unfathomable to me that he would let these prime years slip by without more work. It's a fine album as far as ambient platters go, but I almost never play this stuff as I'm never really in this kind of mood. I mean what kind of mood would that be anyway? Mellow, tired, perhaps? LOL

Nevertheless, I'll try to make a game effort at describing the 'music' contained herein.

Robert Fripp – guitar
Brian Eno – tape loops, synthesizer, piano

All tracks written by Brian Eno and Robert Fripp, except "Wind on Wind" by Eno.

"Wind on Water" – 5:30
Sets the pace for the rest of the album. I don't really hear Robert, but maybe I wasn't paying attention. You see - Eno made quite a few LPs like this. They don't all feature Robert Fripp, of course, but that same hazy, ambient vibe which he favors so much permeates at least half a dozen records bearing the Eno moniker. I should know, I've coughed up for almost all of them from this era.

Wiki - "Evening Star is the second studio album by British musicians Robert Fripp and Brian Eno. It was recorded from 1974 to 1975 and released in December 1975 by Island Records."

"Evening Star" – 7:48
My fave cut, because you can definitely hear Fripp all over it. Despite its length, it goes by like no time has passed at all. Nice.

"This album's recording and the preceding seven-show European tour by Fripp and Eno marked Fripp's first output after disbanding King Crimson and his last before temporarily retiring from music (at the time thought to be permanently) to study at the International Academy for Continuous Education in Sherborne House." - Wikipedia

"Evensong" – 2:53
Difficult to find words to describe this track. I assume that's Robert making the noises which fill this shortest of cuts, but it doesn't really sound like him so... who knows?

Wiki: "AllMusic described Evening Star as "a less harsh, more varied affair, closer to Eno's then-developing idea of ambient music than what had come before in (No Pussyfooting)". The first three tracks are serene, gentle tape-looped guitar textures performed by Fripp and accented with treatments, synthesizer and piano by Eno. Track four, "Wind on Wind", is a short excerpt from Eno's solo project Discreet Music, released a week after Evening Star. It is not an exact duplication from that release, being mixed slightly differently. Eno had originally intended Fripp to use the material which became Discreet Music as a backing tape to play over in improvised live performances."

Yes, Discreet Music, I have that one too. Even less engaging than this one. LOL, sorry, Stephen.

"Wind on Wind" – 2:56
So this is the one without Robert's contributions. Wish I could say it's very different from the rest of the tracks, but... "Tracks from Evening Star were used as music in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Primary Phase. "Wind on Water" and "Wind on Wind" were included on the soundtrack to the 1983 film Breathless. - Wiki

Image

"An Index of Metals" – 28:36
This is divided up into six tracks on my CD, but it was the entire side two of the original LP. It ebbs and flows - sometimes Fripp is clearly audible, like on the title track, sometimes it's purely Brian put-putting away with his tape loops. I dunno, I'm a rock guy - so I don't really know what to do with stuff like this. I certainly wouldn't put it on at a party (can you imagine?), or driving around (I'd want something rhythmic). "Music to fuck by?" Hardly - though that would've been a great album title for Eno. Doubtless someone more enlightened will chime in to say how their life was enriched by Evening Star or similar albums. Kudos, you're a better man than I. :D

Wiki - "The second half of the album is a twenty-eight-minute piece of drone music titled "An Index of Metals", in which guitar notes are accumulated in a loop, with distortion increasing as the track progresses.

The album's cover is a painting by the artist Peter Schmidt."

Postscript: Okay, so I'm reading reviews of this on progachives.com. They're mostly positive of course. One guy had a great phrase: Celestial to the extent of vapor." LOL, love that one. Another review says this:

"Side 1 saw the duo exploring the more melodic possibilities of the guitar/tape loops/synth set up. Wind on Water, taken from a widely bootlegged French concert (Air Sculptures: the sound quality is appalling, don't bother) opens the proceedings with Fripp unleashing barrages of high speed clusters of notes over a backdrop of what would later be known as Frippertronics. For a piece created largely by tape delay systems it's a joyous, life affirming noise, which segues neatly into the gorgeous title track."

What, did I read that right? The first track has "high speed clusters of notes?" Christ, I must have missed it...

Image
it's weird how carlsson has managed to get wilson over a barrel and then persuade him to let the rest of the PROG goons perform anal chugs on him in said position.

my point is that wilson has sold his arse cheaply. it's embarrassing to read.

-skope

User avatar
C
Robust
Posts: 66483
Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 19:06

Re: King Crimson

Postby C » 17 Nov 2021, 22:28

Evening Star is a wonderful album



.
DarknessFish wrote:Rother's picture quiz is cool, but I'm losing the will when you end up trying to guess albums by The Pineapple Thief.

John_K wrote:In my 50s I've become an Apprentice Prog Goon, starting with the big-hitters, and working my way to BBT...

User avatar
Hightea
Posts: 3451
Joined: 16 Apr 2015, 02:18
Location: NY state

Re: King Crimson

Postby Hightea » 18 Nov 2021, 15:30

although I have to admin I don't listen to Evening Star it was an interesting album for the time period and led to so much more in music. Really is a shame that Fripp/Eno don't get more credit to modern music for these two albums.

So Matt the question is are you going to take the next step and review the Adrian KC years (AKA the years many folks here hate). Note I'm not one of them :D

User avatar
The Slider
Self-Aggrandising Cock
Posts: 47667
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:05
Location: I'm only here for the sneer
Contact:

Re: King Crimson

Postby The Slider » 18 Nov 2021, 15:43

If Belew is in, I'm out
I can't bear him
Complete Prince Mp3 set - on a purple usb drive - available in the usual place if anyone wants it
Image

User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 31306
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: King Crimson

Postby Matt Wilson » 18 Nov 2021, 15:49

Hightea wrote:although I have to admin I don't listen to Evening Star it was an interesting album for the time period and led to so much more in music. Really is a shame that Fripp/Eno don't get more credit to modern music for these two albums.

So Matt the question is are you going to take the next step and review the Adrian KC years (AKA the years many folks here hate). Note I'm not one of them :D


Yeah, I said in my first post I would examine the '70s and '80s. There's only the three albums in the '80s so it'll be easy. I usually do three LPs a week, so I'm done for now. Next week I'll look at Exposure, and probably a brief examination of those two Fripp records from the early '80s. So figure two more weeks of this thread and I'm out.

I'll have to figure out what prog group to write about next as it seems to upset our fine friends at preludin so.
it's weird how carlsson has managed to get wilson over a barrel and then persuade him to let the rest of the PROG goons perform anal chugs on him in said position.

my point is that wilson has sold his arse cheaply. it's embarrassing to read.

-skope

User avatar
Hightea
Posts: 3451
Joined: 16 Apr 2015, 02:18
Location: NY state

Re: King Crimson

Postby Hightea » 18 Nov 2021, 17:04

Matt Wilson wrote:
Hightea wrote:although I have to admin I don't listen to Evening Star it was an interesting album for the time period and led to so much more in music. Really is a shame that Fripp/Eno don't get more credit to modern music for these two albums.

So Matt the question is are you going to take the next step and review the Adrian KC years (AKA the years many folks here hate). Note I'm not one of them :D


Yeah, I said in my first post I would examine the '70s and '80s. There's only the three albums in the '80s so it'll be easy. I usually do three LPs a week, so I'm done for now. Next week I'll look at Exposure, and probably a brief examination of those two Fripp records from the early '80s. So figure two more weeks of this thread and I'm out.

sweet! Your doing a wonderful job enjoy reading them.

Matt Wilson wrote:I'll have to figure out what prog group to write about next as it seems to upset our fine friends at preludin so.

:lol: