The Prog Premier League - The Final League Table

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robertff
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The Prog Premier League - The Final League Table

Postby robertff » 06 Oct 2021, 09:29

Following on from some discussion on Reap Corner here is a new thread, not for those not interested in prog.

Okay all, there are 20 teams in the premier league, so who makes it into the prog premier league (20 only) with positions from 1 - 20? Will we ever agree?


So who would be top of the league, who's the best, Yes, Jethro, Genesis ............?


Send me a PM with your top 5 prog acts in order of importance, no half baked orders, but ordered 1-5. Consider the acts in order of importance and influence to the world of prog and not just your personal favourites, otherwise this will become a pretty useless exercise.

Post your top 5 here as well but I shall only tally the ones that come to me by PM. You've got until Monday 10th October, no later than 1:00 p.m. GMT.

Off you go.


.
Last edited by robertff on 23 Oct 2021, 17:48, edited 9 times in total.

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby Neil Jung » 06 Oct 2021, 13:43

Yes
Genesis
ELP
King Crimson
Focus
Gentle Giant
Jethro Tull
Pink Floyd
Steven Wilson / Porcupine Tree
Marillion
Camel
Caravan
Moody Blues
PFM
Rush
UK
VDGG
Mike Oldfield
Tangerine Dream
Steve Hackett
[indistinct chatter]

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C
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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby C » 06 Oct 2021, 13:58

Neil Jung wrote:Yes
Genesis


That's a very interesting start!

Yes. Yes, up to a point.
Genesis. Yes, up to a point.

However, if I had to listen to that Invisible Touch nonsense my answer would be no.

That's the trouble with some of these bands that have been around for centuries is that their work often falls below the line of acceptability. Strawbs might be another. Crimso definitely

Gentle Giant got it right

So, how do we sort that out....?



.
slightbreeze wrote:
C wrote:Will Barclay James Harvest feature well.....?

If we get as far as a top 100, I'd certainly consider it

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby slightbreeze » 06 Oct 2021, 14:30

1. YES
2. GENESIS
3. JETHRO TULL
4. KING CRIMSON
5. V.D.G.G.
6. GENTLE GIANT
7. THE NICE
8. P.F.M.
9. E.L.P.
10. FOCUS
11. PINK FLOYD
12. PROCOL HARUM
13. CAMEL
14. GREENSLADE
15. CURVED AIR
16. COLOSSEUM
17. MANFRED MANN'S EARTH BAND
18. MARILLION
19. CARAVAN
20. TRIUMVERAT

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby Matt Wilson » 06 Oct 2021, 14:38

C wrote:
Neil Jung wrote:Yes
Genesis


That's a very interesting start!

Yes. Yes, up to a point.
Genesis. Yes, up to a point.

However, if I had to listen to that Invisible Touch nonsense my answer would be no.

That's the trouble with some of these bands that have been around for centuries is that their work often falls below the line of acceptability. Strawbs might be another. Crimso definitely

Gentle Giant got it right

So, how do we sort that out....?



.


Concentrate mostly on the '70s, or maybe just acknowledge the best albums.


Yes ('70 - '83)
Genesis ('70 - '82)
Pink Floyd ('67 - '79) Some caveats: They were psych until '69, but the '67 - '68 stuff is still great. Don't mind the two eighties albums either.
Jethro Tull ('68 - '82) There's the question of how much of this is really prog, but who cares? Mostly a great run of albums.
King Crimson ('69 - '84) And beyond, I guess. But this is the core catalog for me.
Zappa ('66 - ?) Probably peters out sometime in the mid eighties, and then it's for die-hards only. Not all of it prog either.
ELP - ('70 - '74) The shortest amount of great years. Possibly second-tier?
Gentle Giant ('70 - '77) But not including The Missing Piece.
Moody Blues ('67 - '78)
Rush ('75 - '82 or thereabouts) Scattered albums after that.
Soft Machine ('68 - '78) At least half of these albums are jazz fusion though. The first two are psych.
Caravan ('68 - '75) First one is psych, Cunning Stunts barely makes the grade.
Van der Graaf Generator ('69 - '78)
Marillion ('83 - ?) Only know the Fish era, then Brave and Afraid of Sunlight.
Camel ('73 - ?) Don't know enough of their post '76 albums.
Henry Cow ('73 - '79) More avant garde than prog?
Barclay James Harvest ('70 - '76) Maybe some LPs after that, but I've not heard them.
Renaissance - ('69 - ?) I listed three albums of theirs on Reap Corner and no comments. No fans here?

I'm sure I'm forgetting some. I don't have enough Italian prog to issue an opinion.

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby Neil Jung » 06 Oct 2021, 14:58

C wrote:
Neil Jung wrote:Yes
Genesis


That's a very interesting start!

Yes. Yes, up to a point.
Genesis. Yes, up to a point.

However, if I had to listen to that Invisible Touch nonsense my answer would be no.

That's the trouble with some of these bands that have been around for centuries is that their work often falls below the line of acceptability. Strawbs might be another. Crimso definitely

Gentle Giant got it right

So, how do we sort that out....?

.


I think you have to consider their best work and forget about the sub standard stuff like Invisible Touch, The Missing Piece, Con Proby, Tormato, Love Beach etc etc.

Whilst I’d forgotten about Greenslade I think they were definitely second tier, Soft Machine surely weren’t Prog and I’m not sure about Colosseum either. Curved Air would also be second division for me. The Nice… did they make any great records? Triumvirate … I had a copy of one of theirs which I thought was just an ELP rip off; you’ll be suggesting Starcastle next!
[indistinct chatter]

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby robertff » 06 Oct 2021, 16:38

Perhaps as has been mentioned earlier, we just concentrate on their better albums for the period they were at their best, which would I guess go hand in hand, at least we would have a starting point.

So for me Yes would be the champions in the number 1 spot for producing the string of good to superb albums from Time And A Word, where they really began to show their true prog intentions, through to Going For The One.

Can any other band match that?

Here's a list of 'prog bands' that might jog some memories, although one or two might appear to be dubious choices.


https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best ... sprog.html

.
Last edited by robertff on 06 Oct 2021, 16:42, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby Matt Wilson » 06 Oct 2021, 16:41

robertff wrote:Perhaps as has been mentioned earlier, we just concentrate on their better albums for the period they were at their best, which would I guess go hand in hand, at least we would have a starting point.

So for me Yes would be the champions in the number 1 spot for producing the string of good to superb albums from Time And A Word, where they really began to show their true prog intentions, through to Going For The One.

Can any other band match that?



.


Genesis

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby slightbreeze » 06 Oct 2021, 16:45

Neil Jung wrote:
C wrote:
Neil Jung wrote:Yes
Genesis


That's a very interesting start!

Yes. Yes, up to a point.
Genesis. Yes, up to a point.

However, if I had to listen to that Invisible Touch nonsense my answer would be no.

That's the trouble with some of these bands that have been around for centuries is that their work often falls below the line of acceptability. Strawbs might be another. Crimso definitely

Gentle Giant got it right

So, how do we sort that out....?

.


I think you have to consider their best work and forget about the sub standard stuff like Invisible Touch, The Missing Piece, Con Proby, Tormato, Love Beach etc etc.

Whilst I’d forgotten about Greenslade I think they were definitely second tier, Soft Machine surely weren’t Prog and I’m not sure about Colosseum either. Curved Air would also be second division for me. The Nice… did they make any great records? Triumvirate … I had a copy of one of theirs which I thought was just an ELP rip off; you’ll be suggesting Starcastle next!

Damn, I forgot Starcastle! Let's face it, the Yanks just CAN'T do prog (apologies to any American posters.....but you just CAN'T

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby robertff » 06 Oct 2021, 16:48

Matt Wilson wrote:
robertff wrote:Perhaps as has been mentioned earlier, we just concentrate on their better albums for the period they were at their best, which would I guess go hand in hand, at least we would have a starting point.

So for me Yes would be the champions in the number 1 spot for producing the string of good to superb albums from Time And A Word, where they really began to show their true prog intentions, through to Going For The One.

Can any other band match that?



.


Genesis



Might well be Matt, I'm not a fan as you know, but realise that they are well thought of by many who enjoy prog music. Do you think their best period is better than Yes' though?

If it came down to chart placings, sales figures and popularity I'm pretty sure Yes would win easily but it's not necessarily about that is it?


.

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby Matt Wilson » 06 Oct 2021, 16:56

It's a judgement call, as always with these things. I might give it to Yes by a hair as well, but you certainly can't deny that Genesis were consistent from '70 - '76. Yes only beat them by one year with Going for the One coming out in '77. Then again - there were no Yes albums in '75 - '76 either. Duke is better than Drama in '80 as well, but on the other hand I like 90125 more than Genesis in '83.

I don't think we're going too far out on a limb in saying Yes and Genesis were the two greatest exponents of progressive rock in the '70s.

If we're all in agreement that Pink Floyd is prog, then they might be in contention as well. Their run of records from '70 - '77 (or '79 depending on one's views of The Wall) are as unimpeachable as the other two bands.

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby robertff » 06 Oct 2021, 17:04

Matt Wilson wrote:It's a judgement call, as always with these things. I might give it to Yes by a hair as well, but you certainly can't deny that Genesis were consistent from '70 - '76. Yes only beat them by one year with Going for the One coming out in '77. Then again - there were no Yes albums in '75 - '76 either. Duke is better than Drama in '80 as well, but on the other hand I like 90125 more than Genesis in '83.

I don't think we're going too far out on a limb in saying Yes and Genesis were the two greatest exponents of progressive rock in the '70s.

If we're all in agreement that Pink Floyd is prog, then they might be in contention as well. Their run of records from '70 - '77 or '79 depending on one's views of The Wall are as unimpeachable as the other two bands.



No, I agree with you about Genesis, even though I don't like their music they must be up there close to the top, Floyd as well, but what about King Crimson and Jethro Tull, particularly JT both of those must be up there in the mix for top spot?

Perhaps chart placings, record sales and overall popularity should be considered just to separate the inseparable?

.

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby Matt Wilson » 06 Oct 2021, 17:13

If you're going to bring sales into the mix, then a band like Crimson is going to suffer. Tull were very consistent for that entire era. My only issue with putting them along side Yes or Genesis is that Tull weren't as proggy. Only TAAB and Passion Play are prog through and through, with Minstrel getting a mention, but after that...? I mean - we all love Aqualung, but is it really prog? I guess it is, and maybe I'm just quibbling.

Back to Crimson - genius stuff, but Fripp stopped the band in 1974 and didn't start up again until Discipline in 1981. Love that album, but the African rhythms remind me an awful lot of Talking Heads, and the American vocals take some getting used to. Again, I'm probably just making much ado about non-issues.

Regardless, certainly Tull and Crimson are in the top five along with Genesis, Floyd, and Yes in my estimation.

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby robertff » 06 Oct 2021, 17:31

Matt Wilson wrote:If you're going to bring sales into the mix, then a band like Crimson is going to suffer. Tull were very consistent for that entire era. My only issue with putting them along side Yes or Genesis is that Tull weren't as proggy. Only TAAB and Passion Play are prog through and through, with Minstrel getting a mention, but after that...? I mean - we all love Aqualung, but is it really prog? I guess it is, and maybe I'm just quibbling.

Back to Crimson - genius stuff, but Fripp stopped the band in 1974 and didn't start up again until Discipline in 1981. Love that album, but the African rhythms remind me an awful lot of Talking Heads, and the American vocals take some getting used to. Again, I'm probably just making much ado about non-issues.

Regardless, certainly Tull and Crimson are in the top five along with Genesis, Floyd, and Yes in my estimation.



And then there’s ELP, absolutely huge and Queen.


.

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby C » 06 Oct 2021, 17:35

Matt Wilson wrote:Concentrate mostly on the '70s, or maybe just acknowledge the best albums


Agreed.

I'd say '69 into 70s output




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slightbreeze wrote:
C wrote:Will Barclay James Harvest feature well.....?

If we get as far as a top 100, I'd certainly consider it

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby C » 06 Oct 2021, 17:36

slightbreeze wrote:1. YES
2. GENESIS
3. JETHRO TULL
4. KING CRIMSON
5. V.D.G.G.
6. GENTLE GIANT
7. THE NICE
8. P.F.M.
9. E.L.P.
10. FOCUS
11. PINK FLOYD
12. PROCOL HARUM
13. CAMEL
14. GREENSLADE
15. CURVED AIR
16. COLOSSEUM
17. MANFRED MANN'S EARTH BAND
18. MARILLION
19. CARAVAN
20. TRIUMVERAT


Greenslade...?

A nice list though




.
slightbreeze wrote:
C wrote:Will Barclay James Harvest feature well.....?

If we get as far as a top 100, I'd certainly consider it

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby Matt Wilson » 06 Oct 2021, 17:37

Love ELP, but their peak years are only '70 - '73 (or '74, depending on your views on Welcome Back My Friends...)
I must admit I never thought of Queen as a progressive band, though I suppose you could see them that way.

ELP were listed in my top ten though.

Anyway, we need more people discussing this. Where's Stephen when you need him? LOL. Slightbreeze, Rother, Neil Jung?

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby C » 06 Oct 2021, 17:38

Neil Jung wrote: The Nice… did they make any great records?

Wash your mouth out lad!


you’ll be suggesting Starcastle next!

:lol:


ooooof!



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slightbreeze wrote:
C wrote:Will Barclay James Harvest feature well.....?

If we get as far as a top 100, I'd certainly consider it

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby slightbreeze » 06 Oct 2021, 17:41

C wrote:
slightbreeze wrote:1. YES
2. GENESIS
3. JETHRO TULL
4. KING CRIMSON
5. V.D.G.G.
6. GENTLE GIANT
7. THE NICE
8. P.F.M.
9. E.L.P.
10. FOCUS
11. PINK FLOYD
12. PROCOL HARUM
13. CAMEL
14. GREENSLADE
15. CURVED AIR
16. COLOSSEUM
17. MANFRED MANN'S EARTH BAND
18. MARILLION
19. CARAVAN
20. TRIUMVERAT


Greenslade...?

A nice list though




.

The instrumental sections are usually excellent, the singing not so. Still better than BJH, though ;) :D

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Re: The Prog Premier League - Create

Postby slightbreeze » 06 Oct 2021, 17:42

Matt Wilson wrote:Love ELP, but their peak years are only '70 - '73 (or '74, depending on your views on Welcome Back My Friends...)
I must admit I never thought of Queen as a progressive band, though I suppose you could see them that way.

ELP were listed in my top ten though.

Anyway, we need more people discussing this. Where's Stephen when you need him? LOL. Slightbreeze, Rother, Neil Jung?

Queen prog? More like cabaret. As for ELP, never really a fan although I do own debut, Tarkus and Trilogy.
Last edited by slightbreeze on 06 Oct 2021, 17:46, edited 1 time in total.