Genesis

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C
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Re: Genesis

Postby C » 02 Sep 2021, 13:32

The first album doesn't count.

Anything after Wind & Wuthering is nonsense

1. Nursery Cryme
2. Foxtrot
3. Selling England by the Pound
4. Wind & Wuthering
5. Trick of the Tail
6. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

I know Trick is possibly better than W&W but I prefer the latter

I don't think I have played The Lamb more than half a dozen times. My loss, I know



.
LMG wrote:Everyone I have ever met was at Baker's Airforce show where it was recorded. My boss, various ex-girlfriends, my postman was reminiscing about it the other day. My Mum went, my Dad and both sets of grandparents. I got stuck at home with a babysitter!

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Lord Rother
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Re: Genesis

Postby Lord Rother » 02 Sep 2021, 14:19

Neige wrote:
Lord Rother wrote:I like Steve Hackett’s guitar work well enough but I always found the solo on The Knife on Genesis Live to be an absolute mess.

Last night I watched a live version recorded a few years ago and was similarly underwhelmed. It just seems like a random string of notes and flashy hand movements without any sense of melody to my cloth ears.

Shame because the studio version is great.



I agree, 100%... but that was Anthony Phillips .


I knew that.... :oops:

Well, I did once upon a time anyway. (Old brain syndrome!)

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Re: Genesis

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 02 Sep 2021, 15:11

C wrote:
I don't think I have played The Lamb more than half a dozen times. My loss, I know



.


Well, I played it 400 times during that first year upon its release.
Do I like it, guess so :D
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C
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Re: Genesis

Postby C » 02 Sep 2021, 15:26

ConnyOlivetti wrote:
C wrote:
I don't think I have played The Lamb more than half a dozen times. My loss, I know



.


Well, I played it 400 times during that first year upon its release.
Do I like it, guess so :D


Some disagreements go on ad infinitum old friend....




:lol:
LMG wrote:Everyone I have ever met was at Baker's Airforce show where it was recorded. My boss, various ex-girlfriends, my postman was reminiscing about it the other day. My Mum went, my Dad and both sets of grandparents. I got stuck at home with a babysitter!

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Re: Genesis

Postby trans-chigley express » 02 Sep 2021, 15:37

C wrote:The first album doesn't count.

Anything after Wind & Wuthering is nonsense

1. Nursery Cryme
2. Foxtrot
3. Selling England by the Pound
4. Wind & Wuthering
5. Trick of the Tail
6. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

I know Trick is possibly better than W&W but I prefer the latter

I don't think I have played The Lamb more than half a dozen times. My loss, I know



.

No love for Trespass? :(

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C
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Re: Genesis

Postby C » 02 Sep 2021, 15:57

Lord Rother wrote:
Neige wrote:
Lord Rother wrote:I like Steve Hackett’s guitar work well enough but I always found the solo on The Knife on Genesis Live to be an absolute mess.

Last night I watched a live version recorded a few years ago and was similarly underwhelmed. It just seems like a random string of notes and flashy hand movements without any sense of melody to my cloth ears.

Shame because the studio version is great.



I agree, 100%... but that was Anthony Phillips .


I knew that.... :oops:

Well, I did once upon a time anyway. (Old brain syndrome!)


A senior moment dear boy

Yes, a senior moment




:lol:
LMG wrote:Everyone I have ever met was at Baker's Airforce show where it was recorded. My boss, various ex-girlfriends, my postman was reminiscing about it the other day. My Mum went, my Dad and both sets of grandparents. I got stuck at home with a babysitter!

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Re: Genesis

Postby Jimbly » 02 Sep 2021, 16:14

ConnyOlivetti wrote:Great write up Matt
As I wrote before, the album is a masterpiece.
Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats, one of my favs.
Bought it upon its release and played it every day for a year.
Rarely play it now, as any Genesis albums, but when I want to liste to them,
this is the album I go for.


Is fantastic till it dies on "its" arse at the end.
So Long Kid, Take A Bow.

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Re: Genesis

Postby C » 02 Sep 2021, 16:22

ConnyOlivetti wrote:Rarely play it now, as any Genesis albums.


Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot get a regular bi-monthly outing at my gaff





.
LMG wrote:Everyone I have ever met was at Baker's Airforce show where it was recorded. My boss, various ex-girlfriends, my postman was reminiscing about it the other day. My Mum went, my Dad and both sets of grandparents. I got stuck at home with a babysitter!

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Hightea
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Re: Genesis

Postby Hightea » 02 Sep 2021, 17:03

C wrote:The first album doesn't count.

Anything after Wind & Wuthering is nonsense

1. Nursery Cryme
2. Foxtrot
3. Selling England by the Pound
4. Wind & Wuthering
5. Trick of the Tail
6. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

I know Trick is possibly better than W&W but I prefer the latter

I don't think I have played The Lamb more than half a dozen times. My loss, I know



.

no no no :lol:
yes know your feelings on these albums but your order is all wrong.
I believe I've played the first two sides of Lamb more than any other album ever. While I don't listen to it often anymore it still gets played.
Funny I've been hanging with two old high school (actually junior high) friends lately and we break into a song from Lamb and we can all sing it word for word.

Matt- nice write up on Lamb and Genesis Live. Always liked Genesis Live more than Seconds out.
I always thought In the Cage was a bad acid trip. "I've got sunshine in my stomach", I'll always have a memory of this song as the first time we drove into Yellowstone National Park (1982) we all took a hit of acid and we put on "In the Cage".

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C
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Re: Genesis

Postby C » 02 Sep 2021, 18:11

Hightea wrote:
C wrote:The first album doesn't count.

Anything after Wind & Wuthering is nonsense

1. Nursery Cryme
2. Foxtrot
3. Selling England by the Pound
4. Wind & Wuthering
5. Trick of the Tail
6. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

I know Trick is possibly better than W&W but I prefer the latter

I don't think I have played The Lamb more than half a dozen times. My loss, I know



.

no no no :lol:
yes know your feelings on these albums but your order is all wrong.
I believe I've played the first two sides of Lamb more than any other album ever. While I don't listen to it often anymore it still gets played.
Funny I've been hanging with two old high school (actually junior high) friends lately and we break into a song from Lamb and we can all sing it word for word.

I will give the album another go tomorrow.

I promise.

Maybe


;)






Matt- nice write up on Lamb and Genesis Live. Always liked Genesis Live more than Seconds out.


Yes and yes. Great write ups as always from Matt





.
LMG wrote:Everyone I have ever met was at Baker's Airforce show where it was recorded. My boss, various ex-girlfriends, my postman was reminiscing about it the other day. My Mum went, my Dad and both sets of grandparents. I got stuck at home with a babysitter!

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Re: Genesis

Postby Neil Jung » 03 Sep 2021, 07:24

Neige wrote:
Lord Rother wrote:I like Steve Hackett’s guitar work well enough but I always found the solo on The Knife on Genesis Live to be an absolute mess.

Last night I watched a live version recorded a few years ago and was similarly underwhelmed. It just seems like a random string of notes and flashy hand movements without any sense of melody to my cloth ears.

Shame because the studio version is great.



I agree, 100%... but that was Anthony Phillips .


Not on Genesis Live it wasn’t.
[indistinct chatter]

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Re: Genesis

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 03 Sep 2021, 07:41

Neil Jung wrote:
Neige wrote:
Lord Rother wrote:I like Steve Hackett’s guitar work well enough but I always found the solo on The Knife on Genesis Live to be an absolute mess.

Last night I watched a live version recorded a few years ago and was similarly underwhelmed. It just seems like a random string of notes and flashy hand movements without any sense of melody to my cloth ears.

Shame because the studio version is great.



I agree, 100%... but that was Anthony Phillips .


Not on Genesis Live it wasn’t.


Well, thats what mr. Rother said, he compared Hackett's solo
from the live album with Anthony Phillips solo on the studio.
Although he thought Hackett did the studio version, but as mr. Neige
pointed out, it was Phillips.
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C
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Re: Genesis

Postby C » 03 Sep 2021, 08:59

trans-chigley express wrote:
C wrote:The first album doesn't count.

Anything after Wind & Wuthering is nonsense

1. Nursery Cryme
2. Foxtrot
3. Selling England by the Pound
4. Wind & Wuthering
5. Trick of the Tail
6. Trespass
67. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

I know Trick is possibly better than W&W but I prefer the latter

I don't think I have played The Lamb more than half a dozen times. My loss, I know



.


No love for Trespass? :(


Damn!

A senior moment Ray - I've left it out!

D'oh

[I love it]




.
LMG wrote:Everyone I have ever met was at Baker's Airforce show where it was recorded. My boss, various ex-girlfriends, my postman was reminiscing about it the other day. My Mum went, my Dad and both sets of grandparents. I got stuck at home with a babysitter!

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Re: Genesis

Postby Matt Wilson » 04 Sep 2021, 17:42

Image
Voyage of the Acolyte - Steve Hackett 1975
Well there was no Genesis album that year, and we lost Peter, so the band was in disarray after the Lamb tour. Steve graced us with his first solo record (the first solo Genesis album?) and in the words of C, "It's a corker." Hackett wasn't utilized to his full potential in the band, and it's really a wonder he stuck around as long as he did. He's released many LPs, I think more than Genesis even. But this first one is still his most renowned (though any votes for Spectral Mornings will be considered), and it's as fine a stop gap for a year when the group wasn't releasing any records as you could hope for. Much like Chris Squire's Fish out of Water album serves that function in the Yes discography from the same year. This is Steve's George Harrison moment, to be sure, and you don't even need to be aware of its Tarot card concept to enjoy it. He's got Mike and Phil onboard, so it's almost like a group effort.

Steve Hackett – electric and acoustic guitars, Mellotron, harmonium, bells, autoharp, vocals on "The Hermit", effects
John Hackett – flute, ARP synthesizer, bells
Mike Rutherford – bass guitar, fuzz-bass, 12-string guitar, bass pedals
Phil Collins – drums, vibes, percussion, vocals on "Star of Sirius"
John Acock – Elka synthesizer, Mellotron, harmonium, piano
Sally Oldfield – vocals on "Shadow of the Hierophant"
Robin Miller – oboe on "Hands of the Priestess, Part 2" and "The Hermit", English horn on "Star of Sirius"
Nigel Warren-Green – cello on "The Hermit"
Percy Jones – additional bass guitar on "A Tower Struck Down"
Johnny Gustafson – bass guitar on "Star of Sirius"

All songs written by Steve Hackett, except where indicated.

1. "Ace of Wands" 5:23
Wow, the music comes blasting out of your speakers in a most unGenesis-like manner and it's GREAT! "Ace of Wands" is very progressive-sounding and like the Harrison allusion I made above, I can see why he was frustrated not being able to get stuff like this on a group LP. A great mixture of electric and acoustic guitars, synths and drums. Better than a lot of the songs on The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. It becomes an entirely different song right before the 3:30 point - as so many prog songs do.

2. "Hands of the Priestess, Part I" 3:28
Beautiful acoustic sounds, synths, flute, etc. That pastoral vibe so prevalent on Trespass (before Steve was even in the band) is present. There's a 5.1 disc of this album which you'd think I'd own - but apparently it's an upmix as the original multis couldn't be located, so I won't bother. Pity though, as this is a well-recorded LP and would sound wonderful in surround.

3. "A Tower Struck Down" (Steve Hackett, John Hackett) 4:53
Riff-laden number which again - doesn't sound much like Genesis. Still dig it though. These are instrumental tracks and since I've expressed time and again how silly lyrics virtually ruin some prog rock for me, I never complain when there's no words. Heavy bass permeates which I assume is from Rutherford. It stops around the three-minute mark like a Zappa song for a brief moment of sounds which have nothing to do with the melody, before resuming again. There's an experimental aspect to this cut which the first two tracks didn't have.

4. "Hands of the Priestess, Part II" 1:31
Return to the feel of song 2. Might as well take time for this:

Wiki: "By 1975, Hackett had been the guitarist in the progressive rock band Genesis for four years. He began to write sections of different songs while recording albums with Genesis, specifically at moments when his "services weren't really called upon, and I found I had a lot of spare time". By this time, Hackett had become increasingly frustrated from the band's packed touring schedule which had affected his creativity, and had a growing desire to work with a new set of musicians. He had written pieces without any specific project in mind, including those for instruments other than the guitar and another for a female vocalist, but after a while of this he had assembled enough ideas to form an album. Development was put on hold in late 1974 due to Genesis touring commitments with their album The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974), but Hackett remained productive and continued to write in his hotel room each night which kept him "sane" and helped calm his stage nerves."

5. "The Hermit" 4:49
Little Tolkien-type ditty which warranted an illustration reproduced below. There's a medieval aspect to the melody which is attractive. There's vocals but I'm scared to read the words. It can't be pretty. There's an elongated solo which I'll bet Tony Banks would have done quite well with.

Image

6. "Star of Sirius" 7:08
More acoustic guitar-with-flute(?)-accompaniment. Words, as well. Wonder if he was hoping for radio exposure? Phil on vocals - sounds just like him too. Before three minutes it's become something else entirely before slipping back into the mellow mood of the beginning. Ah, these proggers and their time signatures, eh? A nice track to be sure. Moody and reflective.

7. "The Lovers" 1:50
Not quite as short as "Hands of the Priestess, Part II," but probably more memorable. Steve alone with his acoustic until the keys come in.

Wikipedia: "When it came to a direction of the album, Hackett thought of a loose concept from his newfound interest in Tarot cards, which he used to title the album's tracks, and their lyrics, based on various cards in a deck. He took the cards that had conjured the strongest feeling and "mapped out a way of working", such as having "Star of Sirius" a "poppy" track to reflect the optimism that the corresponding Tarot card depicts. A track left off the album was one named "The Fool", which had Hackett play in a style similar to that of Pete Townshend to a song that was like "ELO meets The Who", but he chose not to use it. Some of Hackett's material originated from his pre-Genesis days. Hackett had convinced Genesis to rehearse "Shadow of the Hierophant" as a potential song for Foxtrot, but it fell through. It also marked a first collaboration with his brother John on an album, which has continued through Steve Hackett's solo career. The album also signified Hackett's first attempts at playing keyboards, and aimed for an album that had a more layered sound.

The album's original title was Premonitions, but management at Charisma disliked it and suggested Voyage of the Acolyte, to which Hackett agreed."

8. "Shadow of the Hierophant" (Steve Hackett, Mike Rutherford) 11:44
I guess that's Sally Oldfield singing in a very high vocal range. This is one of the better numbers on the record and it goes from that medieval/pastoral thing to a more rocking, synth-based color fairly well. By about five-and-a-half minutes, it's become an entirely different song as you might have guessed.

"The album's cover is a Chinese watercolour painting by Brazilian artist Kim Poor, whom Hackett later married and produced many of his future album covers. Hackett dedicated Voyage of the Acolyte to Poor." - Wiki. She's quite the looker, too.

Image

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ConnyOlivetti
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Re: Genesis

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 04 Sep 2021, 18:10

Great album, my fav together with ”Please don’t touch”
Don’t care for the others

As usual, great write up
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Re: Genesis

Postby Neil Jung » 04 Sep 2021, 18:38

Robert John Godfrey of The Enid reckons Charisma stole his idea of an album based on the Tarot and gave it to Steve Hackett.
I really like some of the album but find the long instrumentals and the Sally Oldfield vocals a bit plodding and repetitive.
Please Don’t Touch is one of my all time favourite albums as is Spectral Mornings.
[indistinct chatter]

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Re: Genesis

Postby slightbreeze » 04 Sep 2021, 20:31

His most consistent (not saying much, though). Too many ideas and nobody to tell him to look at the music objectively

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Re: Genesis

Postby Mike Boom » 05 Sep 2021, 06:54

Keep your fingers out of my eye !

Lamb is definitely their masterpiece, I can only think that those not liking it are put off by the story because the playing and tunes are stellar throughout.
Its definitely harder and darker than anything else they have done, when you listen to things like the Waiting Room and Fly On A Windshield but it also has some of there most beautiful melodies in Hairless Heart and Lamia and even the distorted pop of Counting and Grand Parade and then there is the title track and Carpet Crawlers that stand even outside of the story. Its certainly there most impressive achievement, and it blows away most concept albums to be honest, its way better than Tommy for a start.

Its only knock and know all but I like it …

Voyage is great, my fave of Hackett solo

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Re: Genesis

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 05 Sep 2021, 08:39

Mike Boom wrote:Keep your fingers out of my eye !

Lamb is definitely their masterpiece, I can only think that those not liking it are put off by the story because the playing and tunes are stellar throughout.
Its definitely harder and darker than anything else they have done, when you listen to things like the Waiting Room and Fly On A Windshield but it also has some of there most beautiful melodies in Hairless Heart and Lamia and even the distorted pop of Counting and Grand Parade and then there is the title track and Carpet Crawlers that stand even outside of the story. Its certainly there most impressive achievement, and it blows away most concept albums to be honest, its way better than Tommy for a start.


Hear, hear

the reason could also be that they want their Genesis
to be pastoral, english wimsy dimsy, or as Gabriel put it
"prancing around in fairyland was rapidly becoming obsolete" :D
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Re: Genesis

Postby slightbreeze » 05 Sep 2021, 09:59

ConnyOlivetti wrote:
Mike Boom wrote:Keep your fingers out of my eye !

Lamb is definitely their masterpiece, I can only think that those not liking it are put off by the story because the playing and tunes are stellar throughout.
Its definitely harder and darker than anything else they have done, when you listen to things like the Waiting Room and Fly On A Windshield but it also has some of there most beautiful melodies in Hairless Heart and Lamia and even the distorted pop of Counting and Grand Parade and then there is the title track and Carpet Crawlers that stand even outside of the story. Its certainly there most impressive achievement, and it blows away most concept albums to be honest, its way better than Tommy for a start.


Hear, hear

the reason could also be that they want their Genesis
to be pastoral, english wimsy dimsy, or as Gabriel put it
"prancing around in fairyland was rapidly becoming obsolete" :D

Exactly, and that is why "The Lamb" kicks "Selling England" up the arse and round the block.