Genesis

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Neil Jung
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Re: Genesis

Postby Neil Jung » 28 Sep 2021, 15:18

OK I’ll play.
I saw PG for each of his first 4 solo album tours. I lost interest after that.
I’ve seen Steve Hackett more than any other artist. Probably close to 20 times.
I saw Genesis for the first time on the Wind & Wuthering tour then every tour up to and including Invisible Touch, plus the 1982 reunion with Peter Gabriel at Milton Keynes.
I saw Mike & The Mechanics once. It was a bit dull.
I’m trying to remember but I’m pretty sure I saw Phil Collins tour for his first 3 solo albums.
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Re: Genesis

Postby C » 28 Sep 2021, 15:59

Neil Jung wrote:I’ve seen Steve Hackett more than any other artist. Probably close to 20 times.


Wow!

That's a lot of Firth of Twentieth....





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Re: Genesis

Postby The Slider » 28 Sep 2021, 18:59

trans-chigley express wrote:I'd have I Missed Again in there too. Just noticed its absence


he did that stuff much better on the second album
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Re: Genesis

Postby trans-chigley express » 29 Sep 2021, 05:19

The best chance I had to see Genesis was on the Abacab tour as my brother went to their Deeside show but I was 12 or 13 and deemed too young to go to a rowdy rock concert with punks like Genesis :roll: . By the time I was old enough to not need my parents permission I'd lost interest in them, The Abacab tour would have been a good time to see them too just before they went totally commercial (Three Sides Live era)

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Re: Genesis

Postby trans-chigley express » 29 Sep 2021, 05:38

Neil Jung wrote:I saw Mike & The Mechanics once. It was a bit dull.

Why does this not surprise me in the least? :lol:

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Re: Genesis

Postby trans-chigley express » 29 Sep 2021, 05:58

Matt Wilson wrote:Image
The Geese & The Ghost - Anthony Phillips 1977
Ant Phillips was the Peter Banks of Genesis - their original guitarist long consigned to the dustbin of history until a solo release years later. And he recorded many LPs after this. You like symphonic medieval prog? This could be your album then. Sometimes similar to Trespass and even Nursery Cryme, Phillips gets an assist from Mike and Phil (and a shitload of others, dig the credits below) and the entire endeavor has a certain charm. I have this album in 5.1, and any time I can get a progressive rock disc (especially a good one) in surround, I'm in. Therefore, if I've got it - you're getting a review!



I'm surprised at how many Anthony Phillips albums I have. They are a real mixed bag and he seems to try his hand at pretty much everything: acoustic, rock, electronic, piano, pop, classical, ambient....etc. He has 11 volumes of his Private Parts and Pieces collections which are most successful when he mixes things up with a little of everything. Vol VIII: New England is a favourite because of this and the high standard of the material throughout, but Vol II: Back to the Pavilion is also good. Most of the others have some very fine moments but it's better to cherry pick your own playlist.

As for his other albums along with The Geese and the Ghost I also like Wise After The Event, Sides and Slow Dance most, the latter being his attempt at one long form Mike Oldfield style instrumental. His acoustic playing is exemplary but I do find whole albums of it too samey but his duet album with fellow guitarist Enrique Berro "Private Parts & Pieces III: Antiques" is very good.

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Re: Genesis

Postby The Slider » 29 Sep 2021, 14:13

trans-chigley express wrote:The best chance I had to see Genesis was on the Abacab tour as my brother went to their Deeside show but I was 12 or 13 and deemed too young to go to a rowdy rock concert with punks like Genesis :roll: . By the time I was old enough to not need my parents permission I'd lost interest in them, The Abacab tour would have been a good time to see them too just before they went totally commercial (Three Sides Live era)



The Abacab tour was kind of good - but a definite downturn from the Duke one.
Not such good venues either as they did arenas rather than theatres.
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Re: Genesis

Postby Matt Wilson » 29 Sep 2021, 16:56

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Abacab 1981
You would be forgiven if you decided to get off the bus at this stop. I don't mind Abacab at all, and its highs are pretty much on the same level as those of Duke's to these ears, but the slide into commercial realms continues as now both the band and their singer have enjoyed popularity with listener-friendly songs, and once musicians taste the acclaim and the money which follows from popular radio hits, they rarely decide they don't like it. But I'm not going to denounce the group in 1981, there's still enough quality material on the record to justify its acquisition. Besides, I remember getting a kick out of hearing Genesis on the airwaves driving around in high school, and the slippery slope which comes from chasing fame and fortune was only just beginning.

Tony Banks – keyboards
Phil Collins – drums, vocals
Mike Rutherford – guitars, basses

Additional musicians
EWF Horns – horns on "No Reply at All"
Thomas "Tom Tom 84" Washington - horn arrangement on "No Reply at All"

All songs written by Tony Banks, Phil Collins, and Mike Rutherford, except where noted. All songs arranged and performed by Genesis.

1.. "Abacab" 6:58
Love this one, no matter how many times I've heard it. The long, jammy passages are my favorites, and it's more jazzy than it is progressive - though the soloing doesn't sound like jazz. I would have enjoyed this had they done it in similar fashion with Gabriel, but I can't imagine they would have done it any better.

Wikipedia: "Abacab" is a song by the British rock band Genesis, released on 14 August 1981. It was produced by Genesis and distributed in the United States by Atlantic Records and Warner Music Group. The song, written by Tony Banks, Phil Collins, and Mike Rutherford, was featured on Genesis' album of the same name and was a top 10 hit on the British pop chart, where it peaked at No. 9. The song was the second single from the album in the US, where it peaked at No. 26 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart in early 1982. It stayed in the Top 40 for six weeks. The title is taken from the structure of an early version of the song. Guitarist Mike Rutherford explained in an interview in 2006:

[There are] three bits of music in "Abacab" and we refer to them as 'bit A', [correcting self] 'Section A', 'Section B', and 'Section C'. And at different times they were in a different order. We'd start with section A and then have section C and then have section [pauses] and at one point in time, it spelt "ABACAB". And you've got the final version where it's not that at all, it's like "ACACACUCUBUBUGA".

The track was regularly performed on the band's 1981 Abacab tour, the 1982 Three Sides Live Encore Tour, the 1983/84 Mama Tour and the 1986/87 Invisible Touch tours. On the first two tours, Phil Collins would sing the chorus in a high falsetto while Banks and Rutherford sang the lower harmonies. For the later tours, Collins would sing the chorus in a lower octave while Rutherford sang the higher falsetto harmonies. Genesis rehearsed the song for the 2007 reunion, but it was not included in the final setlist."

2. "No Reply at All" 4:33
This sounds like one of Phil's R&B numbers, but here it really works. A perfect marriage of prog and African-American influences with the horns providing the necessary funk. Another deserved hit before said songs became cloying.

"This song, like Phil Collins' solo track "I Missed Again" (recorded at around the same time), makes prominent use of a horn section, arranged by Tom Tom 84 (i.e. Thomas Washington, horn arranger for Earth, Wind & Fire) and played by that band's wind players, credited on the song as "EWF Horns". The song marks a step toward the mainstream pop direction Genesis was taking at the time, yet it still contains elements of their past: complex, melodic bass riffs, and a cross-hand technique on a Prophet-5, similar to the style used for the intro to "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway."

The song was released as the first single from Abacab in the U.S., and reached the U.S. Top 30 in the fall of 1981. "No Reply at All" spent 18 weeks on the Billboard Hot 100, longer than most of their hits which reached the Top 10, including "Invisible Touch", which spent only 17 weeks on the chart. It was the second single in the U.K. When the song was performed on tour the band was booed October 3 1981 in Leiden, The Netherlands."

:lol: Interesting... Here's more:

"No Reply at All" is a rhythm and blues style track that features the Phenix Horns of the American band Earth, Wind & Fire. This marked the first instance of Genesis using outside musicians for one of their tracks since a string section was used on their debut album, From Genesis to Revelation (1969). The band wanted to emulate the brass keyboard sound that was used on some parts on Duke, and Collins had used the Phenix Horns on Face Value and suggested to Banks and Rutherford that they use them for the track. Collins thought the horns was a good move to "suddenly jar people and take them off automatic pilot" from the predictable ideas they had considered Genesis to be. Their involvement created some initial reservations from Banks, but he grew to enjoy the track by the time it was complete. In rehearsal, Banks played a drum machine while Rutherford and Collins played a guitar and drum part, respectively, and played until they found ideas and sequences that worked. Collins had the idea of writing a song that The Jackson 5 would have wanted to record, and direct the band in a direction that they never had before. Collins wrote the lyrics."

Were the Jackson Five still around in the early eighties?

3. "Me and Sarah Jane" (Tony Banks) 6:02
This semi-reggae track is a decent Tony song which is probably one of the more well-known deep cuts on the album, but it's not quite good enough for lasting impact to these ears. There's really not too much I can think of to say about it. LOL "Me and Sarah Jane" originated from takes that the group had recorded from as early as the second day of recording. - Wiki

4. "Keep It Dark" 4:33
Another rocker, which means there were no ballads on side one. Rare for these guys when you consider it. They weren't ready to leave the sci fi themes alone it seems. "Keep It Dark" tells the story of a man who gets taken to a surreal and peaceful alien planet but does not tell anyone as he thinks no one would believe him. Its original working title was "Odd", and became a favorite for Banks. It features the band taking two bars of a drum pattern previously recorded and playing the song on top of it. The song's structure is unusual: the rhythm is in a 6/4 time signature, with a distinctly syncopated rhythm guitar part. Lead singer Phil Collins sings in falsetto for certain lines of the song. The pace overall, particularly the drums, is similar to the album's title track." - Wikipedia

Image Image

5. "Dodo"/"Lurker" 7:31
The bombast feels like what Genesis do when they're opening an album rather than being the first song on side two. I like this one as well, but I'm not concerned with the lyrical content. Even though there's beginning to be a sense of being on auto pilot, I enjoy what the band comes up with, so even the slight cod reggae vibe doesn't annoy.

Wiki: "Dodo"/"Lurker" features lyrics written by Banks, who included a riddle in "Lurker" that had fans wondering what the answer is. In a 1997 interview, he said: "There is no real solution [...] It was a bit of a joke [...] I honestly didn't really have a specific idea in mind." - Go get 'em, Tony.

6. "Who Dunnit?" 3:22
There's that gated drum sound again, but with irritating vocals from Phil which ruin the impact of the song. Ahmet Ertegun liked it though:

"Banks described "Who Dunnit?" as a "real one-off piece". Featuring drums, guitar, and a Prophet-5 analogue synthesizer, he obtained the track's distorted keyboard sound by changing its presets as he played the notes. He pushed Collins and Rutherford to record what ideas he had for the track, to which Collins wrote a lyric. The band improvised on top of the track for 30 minutes, which was cut into a three-minute arrangement. Padgham wanted the drums on the track to sound loud and exciting, and not like typical drum recording sounds of the 1970s. Rutherford played the drums alongside Thompson during live performances of the song on the album's tour. While the group were deciding the final track listing for Abacab, Atlantic Records president Ahmet Ertegun believed "Who Dunnit?" should be included. At one point, Genesis considered releasing "Who Dunnit?" as a single." - Wikipedia

7. "Man on the Corner" (Phil Collins) 4:28
A Collins ballad that succeeds on atmosphere alone. The melody is nice too. Don't know if it would make a Genesis compilation, but it stands out on side two of this record.

Wiki: "The lyrics describe a man who spends his days on a street corner, shouting at passersby. According to the radio show In the Studio with Redbeard (which spotlighted the making of the Abacab album), the song was composer Collins' first song about the homeless epidemic and society's reluctance to help the homeless or find a resolution. Near the end of the 1980s, Collins would revisit the theme of homelessness in "Another Day in Paradise".

Backed by a simple drum machine beat, the song takes a musically dark tone. This song makes a prominent feature of the Roland TR-808 drum machine at the beginning, then switches to a drum set during the bridge while the drum machine continues to run in the background throughout the entire song."

8. "Like It or Not" (Mike Rutherford) 4:58
This is what I'd call a typical number for the band at this point in their career. Neither a ballad, nor a rocker, neither prog, nor quite the slight pop they would specialize in shortly after, either. If you have a predisposition towards this group, you'll appreciate it. If you long for the days of a Gabriel-fronted Genesis with all the instrumental embellishments and changing tempos inherent in progressive rock of the first half of the seventies, then this ain't for you.

"Genesis recorded Abacab in 14 weeks, and they typically worked between 12 and 14 hours a day while making it. The new studio environment had a productive effect on the writing process and the band had enough material for a double album, but they discarded one hour of music because they considered the songs were too similar to their past albums. Though the band did not alter the way in which they approached the songwriting for Abacab, Banks said a conscious effort was made by the group to avoid "Genesis cliches" such as using tambourines during a chorus, reprises, extended solos, lengthy instrumental passages, and keeping melodies simple, which signaled further changes in their direction. Because of this, Banks considered Abacab to be the least technical Genesis album at the time of its release. Rutherford said the omission of songs that were too familiar to what they had done previously was required to avoid Genesis becoming a caricature of itself, and so the change in direction was therefore necessary. He picked the songwriting periods for Duke and Abacab as a "rethink" of Genesis' approach. Collins said the group adopted what they had done for Duke and took it further for Abacab, specifically with group improvisational jams and writing with the aid of electronics such as a drum machine. The home studio allowed the group to stop working on a track if a rehearsal failed to produce any desired results and switch to another, which was not possible at a professional facility due to the limited time available." - Wikipedia

9. "Another Record" 4:38
Well, I wish I could say Abacab ends with some stunning tuneage like Duke did, but what we get is pretty much more of the same. Mid tempo music touching upon prog and pop with a Phil Collins-directed approach which would dominate from here on. This is my last review of a Genesis studio album for this thread, friends. I'll continue through 1982 and then it's on to a King Crimson thread!

Wiki - "In a review for Melody Maker, reporter Paul Colbert thought the album was the band's least consistent and therefore, least predictable in three years. He recognized a "heavy PC [Phil Collins] twist to the sound" on "Man on the Corner" and "No Reply at All", but "he does not have it all his own way". Colbert, however, thought Genesis had produced "a couple of Frankensteins" such as the latter half of "Abacab", which he deemed "unstructured" and "uninspired" compared to their past instrumentals. He named "Keep It Dark" and "Who Dunnit?" as "the most exciting and innovative music" the band had produced for several years, and concluded with the album is "by far more promising" than Duke or ...And Then There Were Three.... Ken Kubernik of the Los Angeles Times wondered if the success of Collins' solo album Face Value was an influence on the group, to which he replied, "Yes and no." He praised the album for its "thick, resonant instrumental passages, quaint imagery in the lyrics, and superb production", but "beneath the surface are some new wrinkles in the trademark Genesis sound", noting a reduction in harmonies for more simple vocals and Collins' drum sound replacing Banks's keyboards as their "vortex". Kubernik did, however, praise Collins' vocals. Jim Bohen for Daily Record recognized Abacab had largely taken its direction from Collins's Face Value with its structure based around a "a huge, booming drum sound". He noted the instrumentation is less restrained than previous Genesis albums. "Who Dunnit?" was described as "an Ian Dury like tongue-twister", yet deemed "Dodo/Lurker", "Like It or Not", and "Another Record" as "less noteworthy". Bohen concludes, however, that the album "drags this trio of art-rockers into the 80s at last". A positive review was published in The Pittsburgh Press by Pete Bishop. He named Abacab a "state-of-the-art" album and picked "Abacab" and "No Reply at All" as particularly good tracks despite Collins's vocals not being "the world's strongest". Bishop said "Who Dunnit?" was the album's only "dud", yet believed overall the album would please Genesis fans. An uncredited review in The Coshocton Tribune in Ohio predicted the album would be Genesis's first top ten album in the US due to its similarity to Face Value, but rated it ahead of "the dreary Duke".

David Fricke of Rolling Stone praised the album for shedding the "ivory-tower artistry" of their previous albums, turning to sparse arrangements and "highly rhythmic interplay" and drawing inspiration from popular contemporaries such as XTC and The Police. In his retrospective review for AllMusic, critic Stephen Thomas Erlewine echoed this sentiment with greater emphasis, declaring "Duke showcased a new Genesis... but Abacab was where this new incarnation of the band came into its own." He also argued that although the album is far richer in pop hooks and accessibility than the band's previous works, at its heart Abacab "is truly modern art rock, their last album that could bear that tag comfortably."

Image
it's weird how carlsson has managed to get wilson over a barrel and then persuade him to let the rest of the PROG goons perform anal chugs on him in said position.

my point is that wilson has sold his arse cheaply. it's embarrassing to read.

-skope

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Re: Genesis

Postby Neil Jung » 29 Sep 2021, 18:32

I loathe and detest Who Dunnit. I hated it then and hate it now. Frankly it’s rubbish. Easily my least favourite Genesis song.
This album is so poor compared with what came before it. They should have been ashamed.
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Re: Genesis

Postby The Slider » 29 Sep 2021, 19:24

Who Dunnit is horrible but it's The Cinema Show next to Illegal Alien
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Re: Genesis

Postby Matt Wilson » 29 Sep 2021, 19:38

:lol:
That's the second time in as many days that you've made me laugh, John. It's songs like "Illegal Alien" which are making me stop reviewing at 1982. Don't think I could stomach the Genesis album.
it's weird how carlsson has managed to get wilson over a barrel and then persuade him to let the rest of the PROG goons perform anal chugs on him in said position.

my point is that wilson has sold his arse cheaply. it's embarrassing to read.

-skope

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Re: Genesis

Postby Neil Jung » 29 Sep 2021, 19:44

Matt Wilson wrote::lol:
That's the second time in as many days that you've made me laugh, John. It's songs like "Illegal Alien" which are making me stop reviewing at 1982. Don't think I could stomach the Genesis album.


I certainly couldn’t....
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Re: Genesis

Postby Matt Wilson » 29 Sep 2021, 19:49

Neil Jung wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote::lol:
That's the second time in as many days that you've made me laugh, John. It's songs like "Illegal Alien" which are making me stop reviewing at 1982. Don't think I could stomach the Genesis album.


I certainly couldn’t....


I dunno, maybe I'd think it wasn't so bad if I made the effort, but I'd rather move on to another band in a different thread.

I do like Abacab more than you do though.
it's weird how carlsson has managed to get wilson over a barrel and then persuade him to let the rest of the PROG goons perform anal chugs on him in said position.

my point is that wilson has sold his arse cheaply. it's embarrassing to read.

-skope

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Re: Genesis

Postby Mike Boom » 29 Sep 2021, 22:30

No Reply At All is great tho, Mike Rutherford plays his ass off on the bass, its really quite an astounding track.

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Re: Genesis

Postby trans-chigley express » 30 Sep 2021, 00:52

The Slider wrote:
trans-chigley express wrote:The best chance I had to see Genesis was on the Abacab tour as my brother went to their Deeside show but I was 12 or 13 and deemed too young to go to a rowdy rock concert with punks like Genesis :roll: . By the time I was old enough to not need my parents permission I'd lost interest in them, The Abacab tour would have been a good time to see them too just before they went totally commercial (Three Sides Live era)



The Abacab tour was kind of good - but a definite downturn from the Duke one.
Not such good venues either as they did arenas rather than theatres.

Yes, the Duke tour looked better and I was becoming a fan of them at that time.

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Re: Genesis

Postby trans-chigley express » 30 Sep 2021, 05:53

Matt Wilson wrote:
1.. "Abacab" 6:58
Love this one, no matter how many times I've heard it. The long, jammy passages are my favorites, and it's more jazzy than it is progressive - though the soloing doesn't sound like jazz. I would have enjoyed this had they done it in similar fashion with Gabriel, but I can't imagine they would have done it any better.


They more fully explored the jazz/jam elements on the b-side Naminanu which has a very loose jazzy feel. Throwaway but in a good way.


I feel Abacab does tail off badly towards the end with the last couple of tracks and of course Whodunnit is an abomination too. It's always fun to create your own version with the superior tracks left off the album (3x3 ep songs, B-sides)

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Re: Genesis

Postby The Slider » 30 Sep 2021, 13:30

Mike Boom wrote:No Reply At All is great tho, Mike Rutherford plays his ass off on the bass, its really quite an astounding track.


Banks ruins it with his hamfisted and totally inappropriate white-boy jangling
If he were taken out of the equation it would be the finest thing they recorded post Duke.
It is a wonderful song and a lovely arrangement - keyboards aside.
That middle eight is miraculous.
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Re: Genesis

Postby The Slider » 30 Sep 2021, 13:36

trans-chigley express wrote:Yes, the Duke tour looked better and I was becoming a fan of them at that time.


The Duke tour was the last one where they were mostly about the playing - old school Genesis - rather than about the pop songs.
I was stood dead centre - about five people back - at the Lyceum and it was an amazing experience.
Abacab tour was a trial, quite frankly.
Sat on the floor half way back at Wembley Arena while Mike played the drums and they sang Who Dunnit?
No ta.
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Re: Genesis

Postby trans-chigley express » 30 Sep 2021, 13:49

The setlist for the Duke tour was pretty stellar:

"Deep in the Motherlode"
"Dancing with the Moonlit Knight [Excerpt]"
"The Carpet Crawlers"
"Squonk"
"One for the Vine/The Story of Albert"
"Behind the Lines"
"Duchess"
"Guide Vocal"
"Turn It On Again"
"Duke's Travels"
"Duke's End"
"Say It's Alright Joe"
"The Lady Lies
"Ripples..."
Medley:"In The Cage""The Colony of Slippermen (Part C: The Raven)"
"Afterglow"
"Follow You Follow Me"
"Dance on a Volcano" / "Drum Duet"
"Los Endos"
"I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)"
"The Knife" [Abridged version]

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Re: Genesis

Postby The Slider » 30 Sep 2021, 13:52

The one thing that the Abacab tour had that Duke didn't was Firth of Fifth.
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