Yes

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Re: Yes

Postby C » 17 Aug 2021, 10:56

Neil Jung wrote:Asia. I only ever play the first two tracks. It was downhill after that.


That long...



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Re: Yes

Postby trans-chigley express » 18 Aug 2021, 05:14

I've always liked 90125 and its follow up Big Generator which is pretty much "son of 90125" but lacks any single cuts as strong as 90125's big 3 singles, but it does have some very strong album tracks. I think both albums are far superior to anything Asia did.

The covers to both albums are a bit shit though, at least Asia got Roger Dean to do theirs.

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Re: Yes

Postby C » 09 Sep 2021, 13:34

Did anybody mention the Steve Howe Trio?

Jazz/jazz fusion - Roland Kirk, Kenny Burrell, Miles Davis and some Yes stuff [plus his own]

His son Dylan is on tubs

Guitar/tubs/organ

They made a couple of albums I recall




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Re: Yes

Postby C » 12 Sep 2021, 20:34

Did you know that in 2016, after four years of study, Bill Bruford earned a PhD degree in Music at the University of Surrey?




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Re: Yes

Postby Matt Wilson » 12 Sep 2021, 20:37

Nope, I did not.

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Re: Yes

Postby Matt Wilson » 20 Jan 2022, 16:23

Image
Keys to Ascension 1996 - 1997
In the mid '90s, Anderson, Howe, Squire, Wakeman, and White reunited for the first time since Tormato for a series of shows and new studio recordings. two Ascension double-disc sets were released (there never were vinyl editions I don't think), and Yes fans the world over rejoiced. The box I posted above contains both Ascension sets plus a live DVD and is the way to go if you're interested in this phase of Yes' career. Immaculately recorded, the in-concert stuff is stunning considering these guys hadn't played together in almost twenty years. Both live and studio recordings are from San Luis Obisbo, and though I'm not going to bother with a track-by-track review of mostly live material I've already written about on this thread, I'd definitely say it's worth your time to check this set out if you're so inclined. Yes were about to be on a roll for a few years after with their Ladder and Magnification albums and the Symphonic Live, Songs from Tsongas, and Live at Montreux sets, but it began here.

Image
The Ladder 1999
Again, too lazy to do a song-by-song analysis, but this is the best post-90125 Yes album in my estimation. Not all cuts work, of course, but for a band to still be this interesting thirty years after their debut is worth noting. Genesis, for instance, had done the Calling All Stations project without Collins only a couple of years prior, and this is definitely better than that. Wakeman isn't present, and the disc is about an hour. I'd say if you removed about fifteen minutes from this and brought it down to a more manageable 45-minute length like most LPs in the '70s, I could recommend it wholeheartedly.

Image
Magnification 2001
In full disclosure, some fans actually like this one better than The Ladder. Progarchives ranks it higher, for instance. I'd say about half of it works just fine - and again, this is a twenty first century album. I can't think of too many prog bands who had begun in the late '60s who were still able to make a listenable recording of new material this late in the game. I haven't heard any more recent Yes albums after this, and truth be told - don't really want to either. I have enough music by the band. There's an orchestra on all of the songs on this disc, and the subsequent live shows performed after were also great. All things considered, I might even prefer this (or at least the best songs here) to Time and a Word, which was the last time they had worked with an orchestra, but I'm probably in the minority with that one. One thing that is different about this disc is that there's no keyboard player at all.
Last edited by Matt Wilson on 29 Apr 2022, 03:42, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Yes

Postby frimley_greener » 15 Feb 2022, 11:00

I only like the debut album...and that on the strength of seeing them live but a few days before said release.
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Re: Yes

Postby Deebank » 15 Feb 2022, 11:11

I have come to the conclusion recently that And You And I might be my favourite song

I can take or leave much of the Yes stuff I've heard and really like only a handful of their tunes but And You And I is like an old friend I'm always pleased to bump in to. And it sounds so contemporary despite the instrumentation (Minimoog, Mellotron, Hammond - all very 'vintage') it doesn't sound at all dated to me. Fair play.

Nice work Matt W, by the way.
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Re: Yes

Postby trans-chigley express » 16 Feb 2022, 04:34

Matt Wilson wrote:
Image
The Ladder 1999
Again, too lazy to do a song-by-song analysis, but this is the best post-90125 Yes album in my estimation. Not all cuts work, of course, but for a band to still be this interesting thirty years after their debut is worth noting. Genesis, for instance, had done the Calling All Stations project without Collins only a couple of years prior, and this is definitely better than that. Wakeman isn't present, and the disc is about an hour. I'd say if you removed about fifteen minutes from this and brought it down to a more manageable 45-minute length like most LPs in the '70s, I could recommend it wholeheartedly.



I have this but I've not been grabbed by it the 2 or 3 times I've bothered to play it. For me the best post 90125 album is Fly From Here-Return Trip which gets a lot of plays.

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Re: Yes

Postby Matt Wilson » 16 Feb 2022, 15:53

Never heard it. The only one without Anderson I own/have heard is Drama.

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Re: Yes

Postby C » 26 Apr 2022, 11:49

Matt Wilson wrote:The only one without Anderson I own/have heard is Drama.


I have been giving Yes a bashing over the last couple of days and reappraising!

I have even rebought Tormato after all these decades of slagging it off!

It has some very good stuff on it and the musicianship is exemplary

I really have a soft spot for Drama - another I have only 'discovered' recently. A very fine album indeed.

I have to say that the Anderson, Bruford, Howe Wakeman album was a little too far.

Bruford's electronic tubs are just awful throughout.

Whatever was he thinking - trying to disrupt...?

No. Not good.

If only they could remake the album with proper keyboards and tubes then the strength of the material would shine.

Anderson et alia must have been pissed of that it need the South African lad in the band to help them have a hit in the USA...!

oooof!





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Re: Yes

Postby trans-chigley express » 29 Apr 2022, 01:08

C wrote:.

I have to say that the Anderson, Bruford, Howe Wakeman album was a little too far.

Bruford's electronic tubs are just awful throughout.

Whatever was he thinking - trying to disrupt...?

No. Not good.

If only they could remake the album with proper keyboards and tubes then the strength of the material would shine.

.

Completely agree about the electronic drums. It spoils what otherwise is a decent album

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Re: Yes

Postby C » 29 Apr 2022, 10:57

Matt Wilson wrote:Image
The Ladder 1999
Again, too lazy to do a song-by-song analysis, but this is the best post-90125 Yes album in my estimation. Not all cuts work, of course, but for a band to still be this interesting thirty years after their debut is worth noting. Genesis, for instance, had done the Calling All Stations project without Collins only a couple of years prior, and this is definitely better than that. Wakeman isn't present, and the disc is about an hour. I'd say if you removed about fifteen minutes from this and brought it down to a more manageable 45-minute length like most LPs in the '70s, I could recommend it wholeheartedly.



thanks Matt



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Re: Yes

Postby C » 29 Apr 2022, 10:57

trans-chigley express wrote:
C wrote:.

I have to say that the Anderson, Bruford, Howe Wakeman album was a little too far.

Bruford's electronic tubs are just awful throughout.

Whatever was he thinking - trying to disrupt...?

No. Not good.

If only they could remake the album with proper keyboards and tubes then the strength of the material would shine.

.

Completely agree about the electronic drums. It spoils what otherwise is a decent album


After one or two plays it is just unlistenable

Bill-lad

Bill......




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Re: Yes

Postby C » 01 Mar 2023, 19:40

ConnyOlivetti wrote:
Carlsson wrote:
Neil Jung wrote:I love Yessongs.


It is most robust. Trouble is it sounds like it has been recorded six feet under water.

They spent all that money on the elaborate cover as well - whatever were thy thinking


[Enter Conny...!]
.


For those interested in what went wrong during the recording of this album....

PROGENY Excerpts with technical notes from producer Brian Kehew



Read more at yesworld.com/2015/03/yes-progen…rom-seventy-two/#5

Needless to say, it was extremely promising to hear there were unreleased 1972 Yes shows in the vaults. These tapes documented the band’s North American tour for Close To The Edge, when the audience was hearing this new material live for the first time. A few of the recordings had already been used as sources for the legendary Yessongs triple-album. So the tapes held staggering potential – 12 hours of unheard Yes concerts – if they proved to be good enough to use.

Ideally, a single live show recording can capture enough material for a live album, but that rarely happens. Most live albums are made from a series of concerts, and the “best of” selections are chosen and combined to create a simulated single show. The same was true for Yessongs. Yes had recorded a concert weeks earlier in Hartford, but the tape revealed too much feedback, a rough crowd, and a lackluster performance. Consequently, the recording was completely unusable.

Recognizing the need for better tape, the band recorded seven full concerts in Toronto, Ottawa, Durham, Greensboro, Knoxville, Athens, and Uniondale, and these are the shows we present here. (In the short period these performances were taped, the band actually played 16 dates in a row, followed by only one day off, and then seven more on—it was an intense and brutal schedule.)

When we played these tapes for the first time, the quality was poor, muddy and strange, yet they did sound like the famous Yessongs album. Producer/engineer Eddie Offord has said the original recordings were of compromised quality, but he did a stellar job mixing the original Yessongs. (Offord was mixing the live concert sound for the audience during these shows; he did not record them.)

After a day or so of trying to mix from poor sound, it became clear to us that the Dolby units (used to reduce tape hiss) had been misaligned during the original recordings, and this had resulted in a murkiness.

By calibrating each track’s Dolby setting (for guitar, snare drum, vocal etc.) by ear, it was possible to clarify every recorded part. And each show needed a different setting since they had all been done incorrectly. With this adjustment, we were able to restore the tracks to their original clarity and power, something that had been lost even during the original Yessongs mixing.

As a result, these recordings now sound open and immediate, giving us some of the best-sounding performances of the band during their heyday.

Still, there were other problems—besides the Dolby issues (which also caused the thin sound on the Tormato album) – that had to be resolved before we could use these shows as sources.
For example, Chris Squire’s bass tone: It has always been unique and defining, and in some ways the key component to the band’s sound. But this was not captured on tape, probably because the recording equipment had been improperly set up at almost every show. At times, the bass track sounds too distorted, with no low end (the critical feature for his instrument!). It was also recorded with a single microphone that might have been poorly placed, with no “direct” sound, which is a separate channel used to give fullness and presence. Sadly, on the treble/top, the bass was also missing the distinctive stringy snap and sizzle of the famous Squire Rickenbacker.

And at one show, the bass was mixed accidentally with the piano track, making it very difficult to place in the mix.

Clearly, if there was one thing on these tracks that needed improvement, it was the bass recording.

So many “tricks” were used to make the bass sound fuller and stronger—sometimes with excellent results. In addition to special EQ and compression, the bass channel was rerecorded through an old 1970s bass amplifier and speaker to get a true low end. This now-deep tone was added to the rather thinly recorded bass sound to create a full and sharp tone. The technique worked so well that it was also used on the thin kick drum track, which the bass amp filled out nicely.

Rick’s keyboard rig was a continuous source of problems, not surprising given its extensive (and cutting-edge) collection of technologies. As Jon says during one concert, the rig had broken down almost every show that week, most notably in Toronto. On that tape Jon announces Rick’s keyboard solo as “a duet with the local radio station” since the infamous Mellotron keyboard had been intercepting a local broadcast all night. In a classic Spinal Tap moment, the disc jockey can be heard clearly saying, “It’s half-past 10 on CJRT 91.1, I’ve got music for you . . . Les McCann . . .” and Chuck Mangione can be heard playing along with the band in their mix! We managed to remove almost all the radio leakage from the performance, although a bit of it can be detected during the Toronto keyboard solo.

Rick’s ample collection of organs, Mellotrons, Minimoogs and two pianos was augmented by a custom set of sound-effects boxes, built by another soon-to-be-famous keyboardist, Larry Fast (Peter Gabriel, Synergy, Nektar). With the exception of Toronto’s late-night jazz radio show, Rick’s nightly solo usually ends with the sonic fireworks of Larry’s custom-made synthesized bombs, sirens, and (sometimes) Mellotron church bells.

Most concert recordings reserve a track or two for ambient sound—the clapping, cheering, and music in the room. For the first show in Toronto, the sound engineer placed the audience microphones too close to the crowd, so instead of registering a useful pair of ambient tracks, he got individual voices yelling and talking throughout the show. Most of this was removed except for the between-song clapping and ambiance. The crowd noises during the music were not only distracting, but also revealed some bizarre and insulting comments. Thankfully, after Toronto, someone set the audience mics more carefully, and the remaining shows have a more general and distant audience sounds.
You’ll note at the opening of each night’s performance of “Close To The Edge,” the audience gasps. They are reacting to a simple lighting effect: a spinning disc was mounted to a ladder erected behind the band, and when put in the spotlight, it cast hundreds of pinpoints of light around the room. Not that different from the mirror-balls of dancehall days, but unexpected in a 1972 rock show. This was combined with the incredible film visuals later seen in the “Close To The Edge” performance on the Yessongs concert film. It’s hard to imagine a time when “Close To The Edge” and “And You And I” were not yet fully appreciated, but the audience response on these tapes shows us that these newly released songs were as impressive as the previous Yes concert classics.

The snare drum is a critical aspect of any drummer’s kit, but the recording of it from the Nassau Coliseum date was horribly distorted. Normally, losing such a pivotal track would have made the show unusable in its entirety. But luckily there was enough audible snare on the other drum microphones to make it workable, even functionally good. This was wonderful news, as the Uniondale show held some stellar performances, especially from Alan.

The crowd grows excited as the lights dim and the traditional Stravinsky/Ozawa “Firebird Suite” opens the show. We’ve let you hear the group tuning and preparing for their musical entrance, a small “overture” of sounds from the coming show. Jon’s voice is rock-solid and dependable throughout, even when fighting the flu, as he admits on one show. In Uniondale, the microphone cuts out momentarily, and Jon struggles to be heard. His longer song introductions here—full of details (and sometimes the eating habits of the band before the show!)—are a perfect reminder of Yes shows’ pacing back in the day.

For those of you imagining the performances visually, Rick did not yet have his spectacular silver cape, but Chris was certainly a wiry winged creature, leaping and twisting to accent the music. Steve Howe, as was often the case, is the busiest and most wide-ranging of the musicians. Meanwhile, this was Alan White’s first tour with the band. He also plays some early electronic drum bits, audible as percussion during the Roundabout breakdown section. Alan’s command of the newly learned music is spectacular; at times he drives the music as forcefully as we’ve ever heard.

Our approach was to give a realistic and historically accurate portrayal of each show, including the talking, tuning, and other stage moments whenever possible. Mixing enabled us to give a realistic “front-row seat” perspective. Steve Howe is far to the left, Alan White is center, Rick Wakeman is far to the right, and Chris Squire is between the drums and keyboard. With this in mind, you’ll no doubt hear the difference as the players are positioned distinctly apart, allowing you to hear each more clearly. Rick Wakeman certainly benefits most from this—his dexterous parts on “Heart Of The Sunrise” and “Close To The Edge” are prominent for the first time, and they are brilliant! When each musician solos, it comes from their natural side of the stage, as opposed to the centered positions given on Yessongs. Eddie Offord had added some phasing sounds to the drum fills during the live shows, but this was not recorded to tape. Here, the drums are heard as recorded, to present a more natural representation of Alan’s playing.

Fans will appreciate how this package represents the evenings as they really happened, and shows an objective view of the group’s many strengths. Modern technology makes it possible to fix buzzes and hums. However, this box set avoids many modern concepts of “fixing,” allowing the true shows to be heard.

While some of these very tracks were used for the Yessongs album, they often had minutes of music taken out to shorten the track time; here they are presented in their full-length. Although there are flaws here and there, the truths revealed in this more-literal approach show the band in incredible form. The original Yessongs tracks had even been repaired in the studio with newly recorded and doubled parts, but we made only two brief edits to repair these performances. Unlike most modern recordings, the full range of volume changes was left intact. From stunning loudness to gentle quietness, one of the hallmarks of progressive music is the extreme use of volume, and it is rare to hear that range on records today.

In the fall of 1972, the musicianship, writing and singing of Yes were inarguably strong and exciting—as you’ll hear in these seven full concerts.
— PROGENY producer, Brian Kehew
Brian Kehew is an American, Los Angeles-based, musician and record producer. He is a member of The Moog Cookbook and co-author of the Recording The Beatles book, an in-depth look at the Beatles’ studio approach.


How can a professional unit like the band and those around them make such a string of elementary cock-ups…..?

I rarely play it despite the excellent music!





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Re: Yes

Postby C » 01 Mar 2023, 19:49

Matt Wilson wrote:Should've reviewed this before Relayer, but I wasn't sure I was going to use it because Moraz wasn't in the band yet. Then someone posted it on 'Now Playing' and I thought, 'why not?'

Image
Refugee
I don’t recall if these guys had their fifteen minutes AFTER Yes came calling and snatched Patrick Moraz up, or if Refugee had acquired some degree of fame pre-Relayer. I suspect the former but maybe someone can enlighten me. A pretty good prog album from a time when labels gave money to musicians for recording this kind of music. As always, I’m no fan of Lee Jackson’s voice, but he doesn’t sing all that much on this record, and the music does the talking. Not a masterpiece, but some like it and since I own it – you’re getting a review.

• Patrick Moraz - mini-moog, AKS synthesiser, piano, electric piano, clavinet, organ, pipe organ, marimbaphone, alpine horn, electronic slinky, mellotron, occasional vocals
• Lee Jackson - bass, electric cello, guitar, 12-string acoustic guitar, lead vocals
• Brian Davison - drums, tympani, gongs, Tibetan temple bells, African drums, kabassa, broken glass

1. "Papillion" (instrumental) – (Patrick Moraz) 5:10
“Papillion” is a dazzling display of virtuosity. Moraz wasn’t really allowed to dominate the keys in Yes the way he able to here. Spacey sound effects, a rapid clip, and furious drumming make this as good an instrumental as anything on Six Wives of Henry VIII. One can imagine Jackson approaching Patrick and hoping for another Keith Emerson-type player, and being gobsmacked when he realized he’d practically got one. This one cut is worth the price of the LP.

2. “Someday” (Patrick Moraz, Lee Jackson) 5:03
And there’s Lee singing again and we have the same issues we had with The Nice. Oh, well, I’m used to it. Can’t help thinking what a real vocalist could do with this material. Naturally, I’m hearing Jon Anderson in my head, but it’s not really fair to do that so I’ll desist. Lee almost sounds like Shane MacGowan sometimes on this song. LOL. Now I can’t get that thought out of my head.

3. "Grand Canyon Suite" – (Lee Jackson, Patrick Moraz) 16:54
A very new-agey vibe permeates the beginning of this track until after a few minutes when things pick up. What does this remind me of? “Devil’s Triangle” by Crimson perhaps in places. But when the piano begins there’s a cocktail lounge jazzy thing which is most pleasant. Then, um, singing. It all is supposed to make you think of the Grand Canyon, see, and the words paint a picture in your mind and… Oh well, other bands do this kind of thing better, but it doesn’t offend either. “The Rapids” section throws a spanner in the works a bit for some progtastic playing. I always like it when excellent musicians play well rapidly, and I have to admit I never noticed what a good drummer Brian Davison was. Almost sounds like ELP in places now.

Image

4. “Gatecrasher” (Lee Jackson, Patrick Moraz) 1:03
Too short to create an impression but I rather liked it while it lasted.

5. "Ritt Mickley" (instrumental) (Patrick Moraz) - 5:57
Another highlight to go along with “Papillion” and the way they pound away (almost like Yes in places) makes one realize Refugee could have had a future. A mixture of progressive rock and jazz fusion maybe?

Wiki: “The title of the track "Ritt Mickley" originated from Moraz's strong French Swiss accent when he asked the other band members to play the track again but more "rhythmically"”


6. "Credo" - (Patrick Moraz,j Lee Jackson) 18:08
The longest track on a long album begins with more jazzy piano with Moraz’ Gershwinesque noodling providing forward momentum to his overdubbed synths. Before the five-minute mark though Jackson comes in like Peter Hammill and the effect changes. I think overall, I like this more than “Grand Canyon Suite” but neither are truly transcendent either. I can definitely see what the guys in Yes saw in Moraz though and why he was invited to audition. It was a wise decision to accept the offer too. After the eleven-minute mark I’m digging the cacophony of this song now. Wait, now there’s more words, dammit… Just kidding. I can see how some would see this as a highlight.

Image


A tremendously robust album with sterling vocals from the lad Lee



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Re: Yes

Postby Matt Wilson » 01 Mar 2023, 20:07

C wrote: with sterling vocals from the lad Lee



.


Bet you won't get too many who agree with you on that one.

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Re: Yes

Postby C » 01 Mar 2023, 21:50

Matt Wilson wrote:
C wrote: with sterling vocals from the lad Lee



.


Bet you won't get too many who agree with you on that one.


:lol:

Matt really needs to be commended again for this body of comprehensive prog analysis threads

Sterling work lad

Yes, sterling work




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Re: Yes

Postby Jimbly » 02 Mar 2023, 01:06

C wrote:
A tremendously robust album with sterling vocals from the lad Lee



.



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Re: Yes

Postby C » 02 Mar 2023, 10:56

I played Tales of Topographic Oceans completely yesterday for then first time.

The proverbial penny might be eventually dropping....




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