Genesis

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Hightea
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Re: Genesis

Postby Hightea » 24 Sep 2021, 18:56

The Slider wrote:I just watched a couple of clips and it was pitiful

my thought too. Collins needs to hang it up. You have money go enjoy life and stop grabbing money from your fans. If Banks and Mike want to continue do some solo tours.

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Re: Genesis

Postby Hugh » 25 Sep 2021, 12:23

Hightea wrote:
The Slider wrote:I just watched a couple of clips and it was pitiful

my thought too. Collins needs to hang it up. You have money go enjoy life and stop grabbing money from your fans. If Banks and Mike want to continue do some solo tours.


Collins comes over as a workaholic, in the true sense of the word, in his autobiography. I think hat is what has caused him to go out again. He has said this is the end, and I suspect it will be, but who knows.

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Re: Genesis

Postby C » 25 Sep 2021, 16:48

Hightea wrote:I find the first 4 Gabriel solo albums all excellent and way better that anything Genesis did after Trick/W & W.


Spot on lad.

The Genesis video clips are sad.

That is not how I want to remember Phil...

Pull the plug. Please





:(
slightbreeze wrote:
C wrote:Will Barclay James Harvest feature well.....?

If we get as far as a top 100, I'd certainly consider it

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Re: Genesis

Postby never/ever » 26 Sep 2021, 02:29

Saw a full gig uploaded to YouTube and managed to sit through 30 minutes off it (after Second Home By The Sea)...good lord, it was bad!
Phil in a chair is so badly off-key it hurts. Banks just goes through the motions. Dreadful stuff
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Lord Rother
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Re: Genesis

Postby Lord Rother » 26 Sep 2021, 19:13

It’s interesting - I couldn’t watch / listen to any more than about 10 mins of the YouTube clip I happened upon but I’m yet to see a bad review.

Maximumvolume said this:

Firstly let me deal with the elephant in the Genesis room. It gives me great pleasure to advise that the demise of Philip David Charles Collins has been greatly exaggerated. Whilst it is fair to say that physically he has been in much finer fettle, but then spinal injuries and other health conditions will do that to you, the fears of some fans that he would be wheeled out in a chair like some old decrepit shadow of himself and then painfully warble his way through a Genesis greatest hits set. None of this is accurate on last night’s performance. Yes, as he has done on more recent solo shows, he sits down for the entirety of the show, using a walking stick to assist him on and off the stage. Obviously this is not what fans want to see and I don’t suppose Phil wishes it either but thanks to some outstanding video and set design work it is not anywhere near the distraction or issue that you think it would be. Vocally he is on fine form, with only the occasional noticeable struggle, and is backed by the voices of Patrick Smyth and Daniel Pearce which helps amplify the vocals and gives Phil some support.

All that said then what about the music? As you would expect it is astonishingly magnificent. Alongside messrs Rutherford, Banks & Collins there is longtime live cohort Daryl Stuermer and Phil’s talented son Nic on drums. Phil’s health means that he has passed the baton, or drumsticks over to his uber-talented son, and although it is clearly a shame not to see Phil behind the kit once the gig starts you would not know the difference. The drumming apple has not fallen from the tree.

A roar greets the dimming of the lights. A roar that is reserved for only an elite few bands and artists. This is no teenage scream that welcomes the latest popstar off the conveyor belt. This is a throaty roar of music lovers who have spent many, many years waiting for the return of their heroes. The band open up with the instrumental duo “Behind The Lines” & “Duke’s End” which sets up a stunning version of “Turn It On Again”. It is a mighty fine start to a 2hr plus set that will remind all in attendance that they ae in the presence of greatness, potentially for the final time.

The quality just keeps on coming but not necessarily how you might expect. For the following 30 minutes or so the band reveal in great performances of “Mama”, “Land of Confusion” and a stunningly atmospheric “Home By The Sea” illuminated by the video screens. The first surprise of the evening comes in the form of a three-track acoustic set which sees the rest of the band join Phil in taking a seat and running through a triple whammy of “That’s All”, for the first time since 1998, “The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway”, also not heard live since 1998 and the first real signs of Phil’s vocal limitations and to finish off a beautiful version of “Follow You Follow Me”.

The next surprise comes straight after the intimate acoustic mini-set with a live rendition of “Duchess” which has not been played since 1981!! If that was not enough the band then ramp up the energy for the final sprint and knock out classic hit after classic hit. From “No Son of Mine to Invisible Touch” there is a raging torrent of awesome Genesis material that cements their status as one of the greatest bands of all time.

After two hours of some of the best music ever written it is left to the final trio of “I Can’t Dance”, “Dancing with the Moonlit Knight” and “The Carpet Crawlers” to send the prog masses home happy. And happy they most certainly are. Whilst those who decided, foolishly in my opinion, to give this tour a miss are harking back to the glory days the fans in attendance last night are living in the now and enjoying Genesis 2021 for everything it’s worth.

Donnie Rating: 10/10


Can’t paste them in but Manchester Evening News gave a glowing report, Tim De Lisle Of Event Magazine in the Daily Mail loved it....

This one’s a touch more balanced but still positive. https://atthebarrier.com/2021/09/26/gen ... ve-review/

It’s the comments that Collins still has a powerful voice despite his frailty that make me wonder whether they actually went.

Or maybe our judgement is too wrapped up in what they used to be.

I dunno, what is painful to us seems to be a delight for others.

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Re: Genesis

Postby trans-chigley express » 27 Sep 2021, 05:28

Lord Rother wrote:
Or maybe our judgement is too wrapped up in what they used to be.

I dunno, what is painful to us seems to be a delight for others.


This could be it exactly. I have to say if I had to chance to see this show I would almost certainly go as I have never seen them live and it's a huge regret and a show with them long past their peak is probably better no nothing at all. I'd just accept it for what it is. I'd go and see Hackett's show too if I could.

Youtube clips are not really a good advert but I may view some just out of curiosity. I'd like to know how well Nic Collins does. If he's anywhere as good as his brother Simon I can't see there would be any real problem with the drumming.

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Re: Genesis

Postby trans-chigley express » 27 Sep 2021, 05:41

Matt Wilson wrote:Image
Duke 1980
Some say the last fully-satisfying Genesis album, others say that it was Wind & Wuthering. The more persnickety among us say it was The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. Regardless, I like it more than ...And Then There Were Three... One has to take into account that by the dawn of the new decade, things looked dour for the progressive rock genre, and that there really weren't too many great or even good prog LPs being released. Permanent Waves, Drama, Caravan did one called The Album which I didn't even bother to review in my thread, etc. So an LP as good as Duke by a band who'd been releasing them since the late 60s was cause for celebration. This was also the first long-player by the group that US rock stations paid attention to. Sure, "Follow You, Follow Me" had some airplay previously, but "Misunderstanding," and "Turn it On Again" were all over FM stations. And then the momentum was further established by the acceptance of Abacab the next year. After eleven years, Genesis were finally on their way to superstardom on both sides of the pond, but they would have to more-or-less leave the progressive thing behind to grab the brass ring. This record has one foot in the prog camp, and one in the more commercial realm that they would be so comfortable in. I can enjoy it for what it is, but don't rank the album up there with the '71 - '76 camp. Having said that however, none of their peers were releasing anything this good in 1980 - so credit is due. Phil's relationship songs give the endeavor a very human vibe which I like.

Tony Banks – keyboards, backing vocals, 12-string guitar, duck
Mike Rutherford – guitars, bass guitar, bass pedals, backing vocals
Phil Collins – drums, vocals, drum machine, percussion, duck

1. "Behind the Lines" (Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Mike Rutherford) 5:31
I must say I like these big, opening numbers with all the fanfare and sturm and drang. They all three worked on this one and it's a highlight for sure. Sounds like the first number to some concept LP or something. Phil would reexamine this song on his solo LP next year.

Wikipedia: The Genesis version of the track is a dramatic art-rock piece, while the Collins version is lighter and played in a funk style. Lyrically, the song is about pleading to a former lover, a subject that fitted smoothly into Collins's post-divorce solo album. There were a few minor changes to the words, however.

Collins revealed on the Classic Albums documentary on Face Value that his solo remake came about after "recording Behind the Lines, we ran the tape back at double speed and suddenly this other song appeared". Collins then set out to re-record the song on Face Value as a Michael Jackson Off the Wall-era disco track featuring the Earth, Wind and Fire horn section, the Phenix Horns."

Probably should have saved that for when I review Face Value, but what the hell...

2. "Duchess" (Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Mike Rutherford) 6:40
Cool percussion to start this UK single. All very pretty and the vocals don't start until 2:22. One of the better songs on the album, too.

"Duchess" is a song by the English rock band Genesis, appearing as the second track on their 1980 album, Duke. It peaked at number 46 in the UK Singles Chart. The song is a part of the album's "hidden suite" which included "Behind the Lines," "Guide Vocal," "Turn It On Again," "Duke's Travels," and "Duke's End." It was the first Genesis song to use a drum machine.

The lyrics tell the story of the rise and fall of an ambitious soul singer. At the start of her career, she dreams of singing to large crowds, but cares more about her music than the prospect of fame. Increasingly successful, her dream comes true and she becomes a superstar, adored by ecstatic audiences. However, after several years at the top, she struggles to stay relevant; by caring too much about what her audience wants, the quality of her music is negatively impacted. Unable to stay in spotlight, she chooses to end her music career and fondly remember her former superstardom.

The video for the song shows Phil Collins, Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford playing at various points around the Liverpool Empire Theatre. The drum machine used in the song (Roland CR-78) is shown at the beginning of the video."

3. "Guide Vocal" (Tony Banks) 1:18
Short piece functioning as a link to the next track. Rather affecting though, and perhaps more time should have been afforded its development. Since there's not much to say about this track, it might be a good time for some stats: "Duke was positively received by music critics, who praised the album for bridging the band's progressive rock-oriented past, via experimental pieces such as the closing ten-minute "Duke's Travels"/"Duke's End" suite, with their more pop rock-oriented, commercially accessible direction, as displayed on the hit singles "Turn It On Again", "Duchess", and "Misunderstanding". It reached No. 11 in the US, and it was the first album by the group to reach No. 1 on the UK charts. It has since been certified Platinum in both the UK and US." - Wiki

4. "Man of Our Times" (Mike Rutherford) 5:35
Okay Rutherford tune which neither diminishes nor enhances the effort for me. Simple, but effective synth lines and serviceable words.

More background: "Duke received a mostly positive reception from music critics. In his review for Rolling Stone, David Fricke noted that "Turn It On Again" is "vibrant rock & roll" and thought that "Man of Our Times", "Duchess", "Duke's Travels", and "Duke's End" "possess a refreshing urgency". Fricke points out the band's losses without Gabriel and Hackett in the line-up, yet summarised Duke as "comforting: a reassurance that Genesis aren't for an exodus yet." Sounds' Hugh Fielder gave the album four stars out of five, enjoying the opening of "Behind the Lines" and considering Collins's vocals to be "more convincing than ... before". He felt the first side was better than the second, and criticised some lyrics, but concluded "no Genesis fan could be disappointed". The Los Angeles Times' Steve Pond described the album's music as "identifiably Genesis, but it is toned-down" and a "a more confident and successful album than ...And Then There Were Three...". He criticised the album as inconsistent with a lack of "melodic invention" on side one, but thought "Duke's Travels" and "Duke's End" were "one of the best and most consistent pieces of music that band has made in some time". - Wikipedia

5. "Misunderstanding" (Phil Collins) 3:11
One of their most well-known songs in the States. Very catchy and memorable - though it sounds more like a Collins solo cut to me. Wiki - "Originally written by Phil Collins during the production of his debut solo album Face Value, the song ended up being donated (along with "Please Don't Ask") for Duke. According to Collins, the song was modeled after The Beach Boys' "Sail On, Sailor", Sly and the Family Stone's "Hot Fun in the Summertime" and Toto's "Hold the Line". Tony Banks said of the song: "All three of us were fans of The Beach Boys, so when Phil brought the song to the writing sessions, we thought it would be a fun one to work on. It has a California, summertime, surfer vibe to it that was unlike anything else we'd worked on in the past."

Hmm, if you say so, Tony.

6. "Heathaze" (Tony Banks) 5:00
No less than four tracks on side one exceed five minutes. Or maybe I shouldn't count this one since it's exactly 5:00. The requisite ballad, and you know how I feel about most of these kinds of songs. LOL. It's okay, of course. I guess I don't know Tony's style well enough, because this reminds me more of Phil.

"In autumn 1979, Banks and Rutherford moved in with Collins in Shalford to start rehearsals on Duke. Collins had written a large number of songs, but he felt many of them would not suit Genesis, while Banks and Rutherford were short of material having just recorded their solo albums. The three decided each member should contribute two of their own songs for the band to work on. Banks put forward "Heathaze" and "Cul-de-Sac", Rutherford used "Man of Our Times" and "Alone Tonight", and Collins had "Misunderstanding" and "Please Don't Ask". The remainder of the songs were written together in rehearsals. Banks later regretted not choosing Collins' "In the Air Tonight" for the album. His track "Cul-de-Sac" became a problem for Collins to get into as its overall style and lyrical content no longer interested him, and realised that he should have kept the song for his solo output.

The group found the writing process easier and more enjoyable than ...And Then There Were Three..., which was primarily songs written in advance individually by the members. Rutherford summarised his time writing songs for Duke as "getting back to the basic stage of ideas being worked on jointly". Banks reasoned much of the band's refreshed attitude was "down to not having worked together in a while", which resulted in "good ideas" being put forward, something that he said had not "happened for some time". Collins felt the band interacted "as a group much better ... there's definitely a side to us coming out which wasn't on the last album; the playing side". Rutherford would later describe the writing process for the album, alongside the one for Abacab, as a "rethink" of Genesis' approach, refocusing their output to group writing and improvisation. In contrast to earlier Genesis albums, most tracks were short with the exception of the ten-minute "Duke's Travels"/"Duke's End" suite that closed the album. The group went to Polar Studios to record the album, starting on 12 November 1979, and recording up to the end of the year. As with several earlier albums, production duties were shared by the band and regular co-producer David Hentschel. Collins used the Roland CR-78 drum machine for "Duchess"; the first time he used one on a Genesis song.

The cover art was drawn by French illustrator Lionel Koechlin [fr] and taken from his book L'Alphabet d'Albert, published in 1979. The band liked his work and decided to use it as the cover, but Collins maintained the character depicted is neither the album's titular character nor related to any song on it." - Wiki

Image Image

7. "Turn It On Again" (Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Mike Rutherford) 3:50
Easily my fave Genesis hit of this era. Sounds great in an ear-worm kind of way and originally part of the "Duke Suite." "Behind the Lines" was the first song arranged for the album and "Duchess" came about from rhythms that Collins had played on his set of drum pads. In its original form, "Behind the Lines", "Duchess", "Guide Vocal", "Turn It On Again", "Duke's Travels", and "Duke's End" were one 30-minute track that told a story of a fictional character named Albert which had a working title of "Duke". The group chose this name because the fanfare melodies on "Behind the Lines" and "Duke's End" conjured an image of royalty. The band decided against sequencing the tracks this way on the album, partly to avoid comparisons to their 23-minute track "Supper's Ready" from Foxtrot, but also to have certain segments of the suite, such as "Duchess" and "Turn It On Again", released as singles. The six tracks were performed live on the album's supporting tour with Collins introducing it as "The Story of Albert". "Turn It On Again" was originally a short connecting piece in the middle of this medley, but the band enjoyed playing it so much, they decided to double its length and make it more of a standout track. It came from a piece that Rutherford discarded from Smallcreep's Day and a separate piece from Banks that they joined together. The group considered placing the band-written songs on side one and the individually written tracks on the other, but this was rejected. Rutherford described the final running order as "a very balanced album". - Wikipedia

8. "Alone Tonight" (Mike Rutherford) 3:54
Mike can write a Phil-sung ballad just as easily as Tony it seems. Ho hum... Just kidding, it's affecting.

Wiki: Duke is the tenth studio album by English rock band Genesis, released in March 1980 on Charisma Records. The album followed a period of inactivity for the band in early 1979. Phil Collins moved to Vancouver, Canada, in an effort to salvage his failing first marriage, while Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford recorded solo albums. Collins returned to the UK after his marriage ended and wrote a significant amount of material, some of which was used for Duke and some was later reworked for his first solo album, Face Value. Duke contained a mix of individually-written songs and tracks that evolved from jam sessions in mid-1979, while recording took place at the end of the year. The break in activity rejuvenated the band, and they found the album an easy one to work on."

9. "Cul-de-sac" (Tony Banks) 5:02
This is the one mentioned above that Phil wasn't really into. It's a testament to his humble personality that he recorded it then. Bit of bombast musically, and Tony's war-themed lyrics probably didn't appeal to Collins who was writing about the disillusion of his marriage.

10. "Please Don't Ask" (Phil Collins) 4:00
This is more in line with what Collins wanted to sing in '79 - '80. One of my favorites in the 'Phil's ballads' category where admittedly, not many songs reside. At least he was writing about real things which I applaud.

11. "Duke's Travels" (Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Mike Rutherford) 8:41
Their sop to prog works quite well I reckon. Majestic music, no vocals until well after six minutes - almost like it's a few years earlier, really. The opening synth lines are reminiscent of Emerson, Lake and Palmer to these ears, but once the drumming starts - there's no doubt who's behind the tubs. Glorious, and truly a group effort.

12. "Duke's End" (instrumental) (Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Mike Rutherford) 2:04
Coda to the previous number, and a fine way to call an end to the activities. I dug this album more today than I have in years!

Image


I've being enjoying reading your reviews but haven't had much time to respond but I'll quickly give my 2 cents on this. It's their last great album for me and I really do regard it as great even if I'd ditch a couple of songs to reduce the length. The album starts and finishes incredibly strongly kicking off with Behind The Line/Duchess/Guide Vocal and closing with the magnificent Duke's Travels/Dukes End, one of their finest instrumentals (although a brief reprise of Guide Vocal does appear, I still think of it as an instrumental). Inbetween those my favourite moments are Man of Our Times and Turn it on Again but I still have time for much of the rest including Misunderstanding which does have a Sail on Sailor vibe even if it's not half as good as that Beach Boys track. Please Don't Ask would have been more at home on Face Value and seems a little out of place but nevertheless I do like the song. I think Alone Tonight is the only track that has never clicked with me.

It's their last album to have a decent cover too. I do like the simple cartoon design here. Abacab's simple modern art design works too but isn't as good as this. Every cover after is just awful.

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Re: Genesis

Postby trans-chigley express » 27 Sep 2021, 09:54

The Slider wrote:
Neil Jung wrote:My recollection of Face Value is that it was a surprise to many including me just how bloody good it was!


I loved it at the time and still hold it in high regard now.
He got better at the whole pop music thing on the second one though.
You could make an absolute 5 star album out of the two

In The Air Tonight 5:27
I Cannot Believe It's True 5:14
The Roof Is Leaking 3:15
Droned 2:49
Hand In Hand 5:20


I Don't Care Anymore 5:00
It Don't Matter To Me 4:12
Thru These Walls 5:02
The West Side 4:59
If Leaving Me Is Easy 4:54


No love for Do You Know, Do You Care? One of my favorites from Hello and would drop It Don't Matter To Me in favour of it, even it does make side 2 somewhat heavy. Maybe I'd juggle the sequencing. Other than that I like your choices and I'm happy you kept The Roof is Leaking in, it makes a great sequence with Droned and Hand in Hand. It was the B-side to In The Air Tonight and I was taken aback by how different it was when I first bought the single. In fact the whole album is remarkably varied.

I'd have I Missed Again in there too. Just noticed its absence

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Re: Genesis

Postby C » 27 Sep 2021, 10:01

trans-chigley express wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:Image
Duke 1980
Some say the last fully-satisfying Genesis album, others say that it was Wind & Wuthering. The more persnickety among us say it was The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. Regardless, I like it more than ...And Then There Were Three... One has to take into account that by the dawn of the new decade, things looked dour for the progressive rock genre, and that there really weren't too many great or even good prog LPs being released. Permanent Waves, Drama, Caravan did one called The Album which I didn't even bother to review in my thread, etc. So an LP as good as Duke by a band who'd been releasing them since the late 60s was cause for celebration. This was also the first long-player by the group that US rock stations paid attention to. Sure, "Follow You, Follow Me" had some airplay previously, but "Misunderstanding," and "Turn it On Again" were all over FM stations. And then the momentum was further established by the acceptance of Abacab the next year. After eleven years, Genesis were finally on their way to superstardom on both sides of the pond, but they would have to more-or-less leave the progressive thing behind to grab the brass ring. This record has one foot in the prog camp, and one in the more commercial realm that they would be so comfortable in. I can enjoy it for what it is, but don't rank the album up there with the '71 - '76 camp. Having said that however, none of their peers were releasing anything this good in 1980 - so credit is due. Phil's relationship songs give the endeavor a very human vibe which I like.

Tony Banks – keyboards, backing vocals, 12-string guitar, duck
Mike Rutherford – guitars, bass guitar, bass pedals, backing vocals
Phil Collins – drums, vocals, drum machine, percussion, duck

1. "Behind the Lines" (Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Mike Rutherford) 5:31
I must say I like these big, opening numbers with all the fanfare and sturm and drang. They all three worked on this one and it's a highlight for sure. Sounds like the first number to some concept LP or something. Phil would reexamine this song on his solo LP next year.

Wikipedia: The Genesis version of the track is a dramatic art-rock piece, while the Collins version is lighter and played in a funk style. Lyrically, the song is about pleading to a former lover, a subject that fitted smoothly into Collins's post-divorce solo album. There were a few minor changes to the words, however.

Collins revealed on the Classic Albums documentary on Face Value that his solo remake came about after "recording Behind the Lines, we ran the tape back at double speed and suddenly this other song appeared". Collins then set out to re-record the song on Face Value as a Michael Jackson Off the Wall-era disco track featuring the Earth, Wind and Fire horn section, the Phenix Horns."

Probably should have saved that for when I review Face Value, but what the hell...

2. "Duchess" (Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Mike Rutherford) 6:40
Cool percussion to start this UK single. All very pretty and the vocals don't start until 2:22. One of the better songs on the album, too.

"Duchess" is a song by the English rock band Genesis, appearing as the second track on their 1980 album, Duke. It peaked at number 46 in the UK Singles Chart. The song is a part of the album's "hidden suite" which included "Behind the Lines," "Guide Vocal," "Turn It On Again," "Duke's Travels," and "Duke's End." It was the first Genesis song to use a drum machine.

The lyrics tell the story of the rise and fall of an ambitious soul singer. At the start of her career, she dreams of singing to large crowds, but cares more about her music than the prospect of fame. Increasingly successful, her dream comes true and she becomes a superstar, adored by ecstatic audiences. However, after several years at the top, she struggles to stay relevant; by caring too much about what her audience wants, the quality of her music is negatively impacted. Unable to stay in spotlight, she chooses to end her music career and fondly remember her former superstardom.

The video for the song shows Phil Collins, Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford playing at various points around the Liverpool Empire Theatre. The drum machine used in the song (Roland CR-78) is shown at the beginning of the video."

3. "Guide Vocal" (Tony Banks) 1:18
Short piece functioning as a link to the next track. Rather affecting though, and perhaps more time should have been afforded its development. Since there's not much to say about this track, it might be a good time for some stats: "Duke was positively received by music critics, who praised the album for bridging the band's progressive rock-oriented past, via experimental pieces such as the closing ten-minute "Duke's Travels"/"Duke's End" suite, with their more pop rock-oriented, commercially accessible direction, as displayed on the hit singles "Turn It On Again", "Duchess", and "Misunderstanding". It reached No. 11 in the US, and it was the first album by the group to reach No. 1 on the UK charts. It has since been certified Platinum in both the UK and US." - Wiki

4. "Man of Our Times" (Mike Rutherford) 5:35
Okay Rutherford tune which neither diminishes nor enhances the effort for me. Simple, but effective synth lines and serviceable words.

More background: "Duke received a mostly positive reception from music critics. In his review for Rolling Stone, David Fricke noted that "Turn It On Again" is "vibrant rock & roll" and thought that "Man of Our Times", "Duchess", "Duke's Travels", and "Duke's End" "possess a refreshing urgency". Fricke points out the band's losses without Gabriel and Hackett in the line-up, yet summarised Duke as "comforting: a reassurance that Genesis aren't for an exodus yet." Sounds' Hugh Fielder gave the album four stars out of five, enjoying the opening of "Behind the Lines" and considering Collins's vocals to be "more convincing than ... before". He felt the first side was better than the second, and criticised some lyrics, but concluded "no Genesis fan could be disappointed". The Los Angeles Times' Steve Pond described the album's music as "identifiably Genesis, but it is toned-down" and a "a more confident and successful album than ...And Then There Were Three...". He criticised the album as inconsistent with a lack of "melodic invention" on side one, but thought "Duke's Travels" and "Duke's End" were "one of the best and most consistent pieces of music that band has made in some time". - Wikipedia

5. "Misunderstanding" (Phil Collins) 3:11
One of their most well-known songs in the States. Very catchy and memorable - though it sounds more like a Collins solo cut to me. Wiki - "Originally written by Phil Collins during the production of his debut solo album Face Value, the song ended up being donated (along with "Please Don't Ask") for Duke. According to Collins, the song was modeled after The Beach Boys' "Sail On, Sailor", Sly and the Family Stone's "Hot Fun in the Summertime" and Toto's "Hold the Line". Tony Banks said of the song: "All three of us were fans of The Beach Boys, so when Phil brought the song to the writing sessions, we thought it would be a fun one to work on. It has a California, summertime, surfer vibe to it that was unlike anything else we'd worked on in the past."

Hmm, if you say so, Tony.

6. "Heathaze" (Tony Banks) 5:00
No less than four tracks on side one exceed five minutes. Or maybe I shouldn't count this one since it's exactly 5:00. The requisite ballad, and you know how I feel about most of these kinds of songs. LOL. It's okay, of course. I guess I don't know Tony's style well enough, because this reminds me more of Phil.

"In autumn 1979, Banks and Rutherford moved in with Collins in Shalford to start rehearsals on Duke. Collins had written a large number of songs, but he felt many of them would not suit Genesis, while Banks and Rutherford were short of material having just recorded their solo albums. The three decided each member should contribute two of their own songs for the band to work on. Banks put forward "Heathaze" and "Cul-de-Sac", Rutherford used "Man of Our Times" and "Alone Tonight", and Collins had "Misunderstanding" and "Please Don't Ask". The remainder of the songs were written together in rehearsals. Banks later regretted not choosing Collins' "In the Air Tonight" for the album. His track "Cul-de-Sac" became a problem for Collins to get into as its overall style and lyrical content no longer interested him, and realised that he should have kept the song for his solo output.

The group found the writing process easier and more enjoyable than ...And Then There Were Three..., which was primarily songs written in advance individually by the members. Rutherford summarised his time writing songs for Duke as "getting back to the basic stage of ideas being worked on jointly". Banks reasoned much of the band's refreshed attitude was "down to not having worked together in a while", which resulted in "good ideas" being put forward, something that he said had not "happened for some time". Collins felt the band interacted "as a group much better ... there's definitely a side to us coming out which wasn't on the last album; the playing side". Rutherford would later describe the writing process for the album, alongside the one for Abacab, as a "rethink" of Genesis' approach, refocusing their output to group writing and improvisation. In contrast to earlier Genesis albums, most tracks were short with the exception of the ten-minute "Duke's Travels"/"Duke's End" suite that closed the album. The group went to Polar Studios to record the album, starting on 12 November 1979, and recording up to the end of the year. As with several earlier albums, production duties were shared by the band and regular co-producer David Hentschel. Collins used the Roland CR-78 drum machine for "Duchess"; the first time he used one on a Genesis song.

The cover art was drawn by French illustrator Lionel Koechlin [fr] and taken from his book L'Alphabet d'Albert, published in 1979. The band liked his work and decided to use it as the cover, but Collins maintained the character depicted is neither the album's titular character nor related to any song on it." - Wiki

Image Image

7. "Turn It On Again" (Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Mike Rutherford) 3:50
Easily my fave Genesis hit of this era. Sounds great in an ear-worm kind of way and originally part of the "Duke Suite." "Behind the Lines" was the first song arranged for the album and "Duchess" came about from rhythms that Collins had played on his set of drum pads. In its original form, "Behind the Lines", "Duchess", "Guide Vocal", "Turn It On Again", "Duke's Travels", and "Duke's End" were one 30-minute track that told a story of a fictional character named Albert which had a working title of "Duke". The group chose this name because the fanfare melodies on "Behind the Lines" and "Duke's End" conjured an image of royalty. The band decided against sequencing the tracks this way on the album, partly to avoid comparisons to their 23-minute track "Supper's Ready" from Foxtrot, but also to have certain segments of the suite, such as "Duchess" and "Turn It On Again", released as singles. The six tracks were performed live on the album's supporting tour with Collins introducing it as "The Story of Albert". "Turn It On Again" was originally a short connecting piece in the middle of this medley, but the band enjoyed playing it so much, they decided to double its length and make it more of a standout track. It came from a piece that Rutherford discarded from Smallcreep's Day and a separate piece from Banks that they joined together. The group considered placing the band-written songs on side one and the individually written tracks on the other, but this was rejected. Rutherford described the final running order as "a very balanced album". - Wikipedia

8. "Alone Tonight" (Mike Rutherford) 3:54
Mike can write a Phil-sung ballad just as easily as Tony it seems. Ho hum... Just kidding, it's affecting.

Wiki: Duke is the tenth studio album by English rock band Genesis, released in March 1980 on Charisma Records. The album followed a period of inactivity for the band in early 1979. Phil Collins moved to Vancouver, Canada, in an effort to salvage his failing first marriage, while Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford recorded solo albums. Collins returned to the UK after his marriage ended and wrote a significant amount of material, some of which was used for Duke and some was later reworked for his first solo album, Face Value. Duke contained a mix of individually-written songs and tracks that evolved from jam sessions in mid-1979, while recording took place at the end of the year. The break in activity rejuvenated the band, and they found the album an easy one to work on."

9. "Cul-de-sac" (Tony Banks) 5:02
This is the one mentioned above that Phil wasn't really into. It's a testament to his humble personality that he recorded it then. Bit of bombast musically, and Tony's war-themed lyrics probably didn't appeal to Collins who was writing about the disillusion of his marriage.

10. "Please Don't Ask" (Phil Collins) 4:00
This is more in line with what Collins wanted to sing in '79 - '80. One of my favorites in the 'Phil's ballads' category where admittedly, not many songs reside. At least he was writing about real things which I applaud.

11. "Duke's Travels" (Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Mike Rutherford) 8:41
Their sop to prog works quite well I reckon. Majestic music, no vocals until well after six minutes - almost like it's a few years earlier, really. The opening synth lines are reminiscent of Emerson, Lake and Palmer to these ears, but once the drumming starts - there's no doubt who's behind the tubs. Glorious, and truly a group effort.

12. "Duke's End" (instrumental) (Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Mike Rutherford) 2:04
Coda to the previous number, and a fine way to call an end to the activities. I dug this album more today than I have in years!

Image


I've being enjoying reading your reviews but haven't had much time to respond but I'll quickly give my 2 cents on this. It's their last great album for me and I really do regard it as great even if I'd ditch a couple of songs to reduce the length. The album starts and finishes incredibly strongly kicking off with Behind The Line/Duchess/Guide Vocal and closing with the magnificent Duke's Travels/Dukes End, one of their finest instrumentals (although a brief reprise of Guide Vocal does appear, I still think of it as an instrumental). Inbetween those my favourite moments are Man of Our Times and Turn it on Again but I still have time for much of the rest including Misunderstanding which does have a Sail on Sailor vibe even if it's not half as good as that Beach Boys track. Please Don't Ask would have been more at home on Face Value and seems a little out of place but nevertheless I do like the song. I think Alone Tonight is the only track that has never clicked with me.

It's their last album to have a decent cover too. I do like the simple cartoon design here. Abacab's simple modern art design works too but isn't as good as this. Every cover after is just awful.


Pass.

As my dear friend Johnny Slider once said: 'too robust for me'




.
slightbreeze wrote:
C wrote:Will Barclay James Harvest feature well.....?

If we get as far as a top 100, I'd certainly consider it

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Re: Genesis

Postby slightbreeze » 27 Sep 2021, 11:25

"Turn it on again" is their last decent recording. I like it because you can actually imagine Gabriel singing it.

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Re: Genesis

Postby trans-chigley express » 27 Sep 2021, 12:00

Matt Wilson wrote:
5. "Family Snapshot" 4:28
If I'm not partial to the slower Genesis numbers, then I feel the same way about Peter's dirges. My least fave thing on side one, even if the tempo does pick up.

I'd agree with that. It kind of spoils the momentum of side 1 and sounds like it came from a completely different album. It would fit on his first or second album more comfortably. I can't fault anything else on that album though.

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Re: Genesis

Postby C » 27 Sep 2021, 15:42

trans-chigley express wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:
5. "Family Snapshot" 4:28
If I'm not partial to the slower Genesis numbers, then I feel the same way about Peter's dirges. My least fave thing on side one, even if the tempo does pick up.

I'd agree with that. It kind of spoils the momentum of side 1 and sounds like it came from a completely different album. It would fit on his first or second album more comfortably. I can't fault anything else on that album though.


I love this song - you can stick it on any of the first four as far as I'm concerned!




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slightbreeze wrote:
C wrote:Will Barclay James Harvest feature well.....?

If we get as far as a top 100, I'd certainly consider it

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Re: Genesis

Postby Sneelock » 27 Sep 2021, 20:53

great thread but I'd like to raise my hand and be counted as someone who LOVES "Family Snapshot". I love the album front to back and still consider it a highlight.

...the way the music picks up during the "motorcade" part of the song I find exciting and effective. I think it's one of his best lyrics and vocals. sure, the "anti-gun" message might be a little obvious but, why not? I happen to think that Pop Psychology is something that rock and roll can do well.

I saw him only once -on the "Security" tour with that Tony Levin/Larry Fast band.I thought this tune was a highlight. It was theatrical but not gimmicky. He's quite a performer. you can't take your eyes off the guy even when he's just standing there.
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Re: Genesis

Postby Hightea » 27 Sep 2021, 21:40

Sneelock wrote:great thread but I'd like to raise my hand and be counted as someone who LOVES "Family Snapshot". I love the album front to back and still consider it a highlight.

...the way the music picks up during the "motorcade" part of the song I find exciting and effective. I think it's one of his best lyrics and vocals. sure, the "anti-gun" message might be a little obvious but, why not? I happen to think that Pop Psychology is something that rock and roll can do well.

I saw him only once -on the "Security" tour with that Tony Levin/Larry Fast band.I thought this tune was a highlight. It was theatrical but not gimmicky. He's quite a performer. you can't take your eyes off the guy even when he's just standing there.


I'm in agreement with Sneelock and C, Family Snapshot is a jem. Don't get the hate of Gabriel or Genesis's slow songs there are quite a few I like.

I'll also state the current affairs regarding live Genesis member tours.
Genesis - god awful can't believe Tony Banks has simplified his keyboards to a lame level along with Phil's awful singing.
Hackett- his tours have been amazing and the new second out's tour looks grand.
Gabriel - I've seen every tour since his second album and will continue to see them esp. if Tony Levin is involved.

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Re: Genesis

Postby mudshark » 28 Sep 2021, 00:37

Saw PG Live once in 2004, I think it was. Round stage which I think was spinning and he got in a plastic ball in which he could roll around. His face was projected all over the audience, He looked like some sort of shaman. My wife and I lasted 4 or 5 songs. I can't listen to him without thinking about that downright traumatic experience. It was more a religious service than a concert, and I despise religion. Saw Genesis on their W&W tour. That was OK-ish, not very memorable.
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Re: Genesis

Postby trans-chigley express » 28 Sep 2021, 01:04

Hightea wrote:

I'm in agreement with Sneelock and C, Family Snapshot is a jem. Don't get the hate of Gabriel or Genesis's slow songs there are quite a few I like.


I should point out that I don't dislike the song at all, just that it feels like the odd one out on the album. Put it on his 1st or 2nd album and it would fit right in.

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Re: Genesis

Postby trans-chigley express » 28 Sep 2021, 01:07

Hightea wrote:I'll also state the current affairs regarding live Genesis member tours.
Genesis - god awful can't believe Tony Banks has simplified his keyboards to a lame level along with Phil's awful singing.
Hackett- his tours have been amazing and the new second out's tour looks grand.
Gabriel - I've seen every tour since his second album and will continue to see them esp. if Tony Levin is involved.

I saw Gabriel twice and he was excellent both times. Also seen Hackett twice but never one of his Genesis shows. Never seen Genesis.

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Re: Genesis

Postby Positive Passion » 28 Sep 2021, 08:08

I have seen Pete twice. The first time was in 1988 on the Amnesty International Human Rights Now tour - he was the headliner,after Tracy Chapman, Youssou N'Dour, Sting withe the jazz band, and Bruce Springsteen. Pete was really good, though of course the whole thing was quite amazing.
The second time was in the 2000s, one of those in the round gigs, with the Blind Boys of Alabama It was alright.

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Re: Genesis

Postby Jimbly » 28 Sep 2021, 08:43

I've saw pg everytime he's played Glasgow going back to his first solo tour. As with his albums, technology now gets on the way of his live shows. He has a song called Upside Down, so he spends time getting strapped into a harness to sing upside down hanging from the lighting rig. Cycles a bike, jumps in a zorb ball, wears a jacket full of lights like the video for Sledgehammer, rides a Segway.

All take time to set up and take down destroying any momentum. The last tour was dull beyond belief, let's start an arena show with a song I haven't finished yet.
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Re: Genesis

Postby Matt Wilson » 28 Sep 2021, 14:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1rqSmvVWFw

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