Climate Change. Real or hoax?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks

Do you believe the Al Gore climate change narrative?

No
2
9%
Somewhat
0
No votes
Entirely
21
91%
 
Total votes: 23

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Jimbo
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Jimbo » 30 Sep 2019, 00:39

Sneelock wrote:In Dahl Jamail’s latest “climate disruption dispatch” he starts with Iceland having a funeral for the first Iceberg lost completely to the climate crisis. Then he makes his case.
https://truthout.org/articles/alaskas-s ... d-history/

It’s so discouraging that people still need to be convinced.


"climate grief"

No. I'm sorry but need we invent a new neurosis? The solution to hotter weather and potentially flooding cities is more air conditioning and sea walls - if we must. I contend, however, that the climate is doing what climates have done which is change - like the weather. No need to panic and frighten the children, unless that is what "they" want us to do, panic and raise frightened children.

“Taken all together, the value of the total global ecosystem services
has been estimated at USD 125 trillion per year, which is almost
twice the world’s gross domestic product.”
—Natural Capital Coalition, July 12, 2018


The World Resources Institute (WRI) is a global research non-profit organization that was founded in 1982 by James Speth [5] with a fifteen million dollar grant from the MacArthur Foundation. It is an international powerhouse “that works in more than 50 countries, with offices in Brazil, China, Europe, India, Indonesia, Mexico and the United States. WRI’s more than 500 experts work with leaders to address six urgent global challenges at the intersection of economic development and the natural environment: food, forests, water, climate, energy and cities.”

The WRI advisory board represents the absolute upper echelons of power within the matrix of the non-profit interlocking directorate – with a staggering amount of overlap with the hegemonic powerhouse, the Council on Foreign Relations.

With USD 98.5 million in funding in 2017, the exhaustive list of WRI donors [6] represent many of the most powerful and influential entities on Earth, including

Alcoa Foundation, Bloomberg Philanthropies,
Cargill, Caterpillar Foundation, Citi Foundation,
ClimateWorks Foundation, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation,
William and Flora Hewlett Foundation,
John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation,
Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Oak Foundation,
Rockefeller Brothers Fund, Rockefeller Foundation, Shell Foundation,
USAID, and the World Bank. [WRI 2017 Annual Report]




The WRI board of directors include:

David Blood: Co-founder and senior partner of Generation Investment
Felipe Calderón: Former president of Mexico, chair of the Global Commission that oversees the New Climate Economy, honorary chairman of the Green Growth Action Alliance
Christiana Figueres: Executive secretary of the UNFCCC, The B Team leader, vice-chair of the Global Covenant of Mayors for Climate and Energy, board member of ClimateWorks, World Bank Climate Leader, Mission2020 Convenor, member of the Rockefeller Foundation Economic Council on Planetary Health, credited with delivering the Paris Agreement [Full bio]
Jennifer Scully-Lerner: Vice president, private wealth management at Goldman Sachs
James Gustave Speth: Founder of WRI, former administrator of the United Nations Development Programme, honorary director at the Natural Resources Defense Council and WRI, serves on the board of The Climate Reality Project, advisory board member at 350.org, member of the Council on Foreign Relations
Andrew Steer: President and CEO of the WRI. Formerly with the World Bank, serves on the sustainable advisory groups of both IKEA and the Bank of America, serves on the Executive Board of the UN Secretary General’s Sustainable Energy For All Initiative
Kathleen McLaughlin: Senior vice president and chief sustainability officer at Walmart Inc., president of Walmart Foundation
Nader Mousavizadeh:Co-Founder and partner of Macro Advisory Partner, former chief executive of Oxford Analytica, a leading global analysis and advisory firm, former investment banker at Goldman Sachs, member of the Council of the European Council on Foreign Relations, member of the World Economic Forum’s Global Future Council on Geopolitics, WEF Global Leader for Tomorrow
James Harmon: Chairman and CEO of Caravel Management, member of the Council on Foreign Relations
Afsaneh M. Beschloss: Founder and CEO of RockCreek. Former managing director and partner at the Carlyle Group and president of Carlyle Asset Management, treasurer and chief investment officer at the World Bank, formerly with Shell International and J.P. Morgan, member of the World Economic Forum’s Investor Governors, member of the Council of Foreign Relations, recognized as one of American Banker’s Most Powerful Women in Banking
Joke Brandt: Secretary General of The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of The Netherlands
Jamshyd N. Godrej: Chairman of Aspen Institute – India. He is the Vice President of World Wide Fund for Nature – International and was the President of World Wide Fund for Nature – India from 2000 to 2007
Caio Koch-Weser: Chairman of the Board of the European Climate Foundation. Former vice chairman of Deutsche Bank Group, held high-level positions in the World Bank, member of the Global Commission on the Economy and Climate(NCE) and a Member of the Board of the Centre for European Reform (CER) in London


Unilever is a member of WRI’s Corporate Consultative Group. WRI member companies include; Abbott Laboratories, Bank of America, Cargill Corporation, Caterpillar, CitiGroup, Colgate-Palmolive, DuPont, General Motors, The Goldman Sachs Group, Google, Kimberly-Clark, PepsiCo, Pfizer, Shell, Walmart, Walt Disney Company, and Weyerhaeuser.


http://www.theartofannihilation.com/the ... of-nature/
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Sneelock
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Sneelock » 30 Sep 2019, 02:11

More air-conditioning? :lol:
Congratulations, dude. You’ve lost it.
Small wonder though, First Tulsi supports impeachment, now Putin believes in Global Warming.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... der-threat
Poor Jimbo. You still have Caitlin Johnstone!
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Mike Boom
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Mike Boom » 30 Sep 2019, 15:14

Evangelical Robert Jeffress spiritual adviser to Trump (when he is not promoting Civil War) ...

"Somebody needs to read poor Greta Genesis, Chapter 9," he said, "and tell her the next time she worries about global warming, just look at a rainbow. That’s God’s promise that the polar ice caps aren’t going to melt and flood the world again.” :?

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Diamond Dog
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Diamond Dog » 30 Sep 2019, 15:51

Mike Boom wrote:Evangelical Robert Jeffress spiritual adviser to Trump (when he is not promoting Civil War) ...

"Somebody needs to read poor Greta Genesis, Chapter 9," he said, "and tell her the next time she worries about global warming, just look at a rainbow. That’s God’s promise that the polar ice caps aren’t going to melt and flood the world again.” :?



Well that's convinced me!

Safe at last, safe at last, great God Almighty, safe at last!
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.
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Mike Boom
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Mike Boom » 30 Sep 2019, 16:49

"Just look at a Rainbow" and everything will be ok - I feel this is a strategy that even Jimbo can get behind, similar to his "the weather is fine outside in my back garden so everything is ok" theory.

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Jimbo
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Jimbo » 03 Oct 2019, 16:06

Rather than the wily oil companies paying off a few hapless climate scientists to say what the oil companies would like us to think, that it isn't they who are causing the climate to change, it is rather (as I had said) the worlds biggest corporations all banking on climate change and the trillions they plan to make exploiting our fear and stupidity.

Climate and the Money Trail
F. William Engdahl

Climate. Now who wudda thought. The very mega-corporations and mega-billionaires behind the globalization of the world economy over recent decades, whose pursuit of shareholder value and cost reduction who have wreaked so much damage to our environment both in the industrial world and in the under-developed economies of Africa, Asia, Latin America, are the leading backers of the “grassroots” decarbonization movement from Sweden to Germany to the USA and beyond.

Is it pangs of guilty conscience, or could it be a deeper agenda of the financialization of the very air we breathe and more?

https://off-guardian.org/2019/10/03/cli ... ney-trail/
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Diamond Dog
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Oct 2019, 16:17

Who knows?
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.
When I was a kid, I inhaled. Frequently. That was the point.

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Deebank
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Deebank » 03 Oct 2019, 16:34

Jimbo wrote:Rather than the wily oil companies paying off a few hapless climate scientists to say what the oil companies would like us to think, that it isn't they who are causing the climate to change, it is rather (as I had said) the worlds biggest corporations all banking on climate change and the trillions they plan to make exploiting our fear and stupidity.

Climate and the Money Trail
F. William Engdahl

Climate. Now who wudda thought. The very mega-corporations and mega-billionaires behind the globalization of the world economy over recent decades, whose pursuit of shareholder value and cost reduction who have wreaked so much damage to our environment both in the industrial world and in the under-developed economies of Africa, Asia, Latin America, are the leading backers of the “grassroots” decarbonization movement from Sweden to Germany to the USA and beyond.

Is it pangs of guilty conscience, or could it be a deeper agenda of the financialization of the very air we breathe and more?

https://off-guardian.org/2019/10/03/cli ... ney-trail/


In the short term and possibly the mediu, term, adjusting to a carbon free way of doing things will cost these companies far more than they will make I would suggest.

The companies that I deal with day to day (mainly diesel construction equipment manufacturers) are investing heavily in renewables but that trend is being driven by legislation, they don't do anything they don't have to. I reckon certain Lithium-ion battery manufacturers stand to make a killing but for the most part it is currently costing - although a lot of that cost is of course passed-on. They do get to crow about how green they are, but that is not much of an upside all things considered.
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Copehead
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Copehead » 03 Oct 2019, 23:20

Jimbo wrote:Rather than the wily oil companies paying off a few hapless climate scientists to say what the oil companies would like us to think, that it isn't they who are causing the climate to change, it is rather (as I had said) the worlds biggest corporations all banking on climate change and the trillions they plan to make exploiting our fear and stupidity.

Climate and the Money Trail
F. William Engdahl

Climate. Now who wudda thought. The very mega-corporations and mega-billionaires behind the globalization of the world economy over recent decades, whose pursuit of shareholder value and cost reduction who have wreaked so much damage to our environment both in the industrial world and in the under-developed economies of Africa, Asia, Latin America, are the leading backers of the “grassroots” decarbonization movement from Sweden to Germany to the USA and beyond.

Is it pangs of guilty conscience, or could it be a deeper agenda of the financialization of the very air we breathe and more?

https://off-guardian.org/2019/10/03/cli ... ney-trail/


I am sorry to have to be the one to break this to you Jimbo but the move to a "green" economy is unstoppable because, brace yourself, hydro-carbons are a finite resource and the sun isn't.

Tough one to deal with but take it on the chin.

So the idea that backing a green economy is some underhand conspiracy is just bonkers, it is happening because it has to happen.

Otherwise you would be the guy cornering the market in horseshoes and rough oats just as those underhand corporations started opening car factories, the swine!
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Jimbo
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Jimbo » 04 Oct 2019, 10:22

It is, nonetheless, bullshit.

I know. I know. Climate isn't weather. (It is.) My wife had an early morning meeting with a friend and the weather report predicted heavy rain and so she wore her rain boots and a coat. The morning weather was fine. It's been fine all day. Now, (Here comes the stupid question.) if the meteorologists at NHK could get a 10 hour forecast so wrong how can you be so naive to trust a five, ten, fifty year forecast, especially when the weather is fine, better than fine? It's the best it's ever been! Go ahead and cheat the power companies with your solar panels and batteries. I love that shit! Just don't be frightening and politicizing the children with bullshit.
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Diamond Dog
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Diamond Dog » 04 Oct 2019, 14:20

You really don't understand averages and/or trends, do you?
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.
When I was a kid, I inhaled. Frequently. That was the point.

Powehi
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Powehi » 04 Oct 2019, 14:29

Jimbo's failed late 80s' audition for the BBC's meterological department.


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Jimbo
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Jimbo » 04 Oct 2019, 14:31

Diamond Dog wrote:You really don't understand averages and/or trends, do you?


No but my dad did. An accountant by trade he'd audit those racing forms. Did he win lots of money? What do you think?
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Diamond Dog
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Diamond Dog » 04 Oct 2019, 14:32

Jimbo wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:You really don't understand averages and/or trends, do you?


No but my dad did. An accountant by trade he'd audit those racing forms. Did he win lots of money? What do you think?


Did he bet on the weather forecast?
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.
When I was a kid, I inhaled. Frequently. That was the point.

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Jimbo
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Jimbo » 14 Oct 2019, 00:43

Diamond Dog wrote:You really don't understand averages and/or trends, do you?


Essentially I do. I found a longish article yesterday and among other points I agreed with, the author brought up "averages" and how shit is just way too complex and items too numerous to factor into one number.

There are serious problems in estimating CO2 emissions (from fossil fuel) as well average global temperature.

Global warming cannot be identified and explained by a single global temperature. There are numerous regional temperatures which describe climatic conditions. A global (weighted) average temperatures established from major geographical readings does not provide an understanding of the complexities of climate.

Moreover, there is evidence that the Global Average Temperature is manipulated. This temperature has a direct bearing on gains and losses in multi-billion dollar Carbon Trade transactions:

When future generations look back on the global-warming scare of the past 30 years, nothing will shock them more than the extent to which the official temperature records – on which the entire panic ultimately rested – were systematically “adjusted” to show the Earth as having warmed much more than the actual data justified. (Telegraph, 7 February, 2015)


https://www.globalresearch.ca/global-wa ... ar/5690216

Another point - from my POV this time. Two days ago an enormous typhoon, a hurricane, passed right up through the anus of Japan, carried on up through Japan's stomach and finally out its head in Hokkaido. In bowling it would have been a 8 pin knock down. Fortunately my small part of the country was spared the flooding and wind damage I see in other parts of Japan. But me being me, while watching the full-time news coverage I was waiting to hear how this monster was caused somehow by climate change and all I heard was how this one was comparable to a typhoon back in 1959. While some scientists way back then were concerned about how mankind was effecting the climate there wasn't the panic we see today which I am convinced is fake panic drummed up by the establishment in order to make a profit. If you read the article it will show that they are, and not just do gooder foundations, fossil fuel giants themselves are banking on the Al Gore global warming narrative while at the same time continuing to pump oil and shale from the earth. Go ahead and march along side Exxon and Shell. See what good it does you.
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Diamond Dog
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Diamond Dog » 14 Oct 2019, 05:59

Jimbo - it must be so difficult being such a hero in the face of such blindingly obvious tyranny.

Thank you for fighting on our behalf.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.
When I was a kid, I inhaled. Frequently. That was the point.

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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Copehead » 14 Oct 2019, 18:23

Jimbo wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:You really don't understand averages and/or trends, do you?


Essentially I do. I found a longish article yesterday and among other points I agreed with, the author brought up "averages" and how shit is just way too complex and items too numerous to factor into one number.

There are serious problems in estimating CO2 emissions (from fossil fuel) as well average global temperature.

Global warming cannot be identified and explained by a single global temperature. There are numerous regional temperatures which describe climatic conditions. A global (weighted) average temperatures established from major geographical readings does not provide an understanding of the complexities of climate.

Moreover, there is evidence that the Global Average Temperature is manipulated. This temperature has a direct bearing on gains and losses in multi-billion dollar Carbon Trade transactions:

When future generations look back on the global-warming scare of the past 30 years, nothing will shock them more than the extent to which the official temperature records – on which the entire panic ultimately rested – were systematically “adjusted” to show the Earth as having warmed much more than the actual data justified. (Telegraph, 7 February, 2015)


https://www.globalresearch.ca/global-wa ... ar/5690216

Another point - from my POV this time. Two days ago an enormous typhoon, a hurricane, passed right up through the anus of Japan, carried on up through Japan's stomach and finally out its head in Hokkaido. In bowling it would have been a 8 pin knock down. Fortunately my small part of the country was spared the flooding and wind damage I see in other parts of Japan. But me being me, while watching the full-time news coverage I was waiting to hear how this monster was caused somehow by climate change and all I heard was how this one was comparable to a typhoon back in 1959. While some scientists way back then were concerned about how mankind was effecting the climate there wasn't the panic we see today which I am convinced is fake panic drummed up by the establishment in order to make a profit. If you read the article it will show that they are, and not just do gooder foundations, fossil fuel giants themselves are banking on the Al Gore global warming narrative while at the same time continuing to pump oil and shale from the earth. Go ahead and march along side Exxon and Shell. See what good it does you.


I've explained very simply why you are wrong but you still go off and look for voices will to lie about very basic science.

Why do you have the need to be on the other side of the table from physics? What need is that addressing?

Work that out and you will probably stop listening to professional liars.

The weirdest thing is the liars are paid by people you claim to detest
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Jimbo
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Jimbo » 14 Oct 2019, 23:47

Copehead wrote: The weirdest thing is the liars are paid by people you claim to detest.


Thus you missed my point how it is actual big oil companies backing the climate change panic. Might it mean they can make more money buying and selling carbon credits than from oil? If so, fine, they can stop drilling now. Which they won't and that is okay by me. It isn't the carbon from cars, etc., causing the temp to rise - or fall. What I do mind are the spills and wars that oil companies generate. Those are clear and present dangers and not inconvenient truths. (Tom Clancy vs Al Gore!)
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Copehead
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Copehead » 15 Oct 2019, 16:11

Jimbo wrote:
Copehead wrote: The weirdest thing is the liars are paid by people you claim to detest.


Thus you missed my point how it is actual big oil companies backing the climate change panic. Might it mean they can make more money buying and selling carbon credits than from oil? If so, fine, they can stop drilling now. Which they won't and that is okay by me. It isn't the carbon from cars, etc., causing the temp to rise - or fall. What I do mind are the spills and wars that oil companies generate. Those are clear and present dangers and not inconvenient truths. (Tom Clancy vs Al Gore!)


Big oil isn't a monolith; some companies, like Exxon Mobil, were at the forefront of funding climate change denial although they have probably stopped that in any traceable way, some companies like BP and Shell never really indulged in that.

No oil company is going to make anywhere near enough money trading Carbon credits, that is just [email protected] banking, they have no interest in tha in any major way other than a hedge and governments have always taxed stuff that is bad for us any and carbon is no different to cigarettes in that regards other than it is being taxed far too lightly to correct the damage it is doing.

Big Oil companies are no longer oil companies, in the main, they are energy companies, they are playing both sides, they continue to provide oil and gas, because you would be fighting your neighbour for a tin of cat food within weeks if they didn't, and they also are the major players in renewables, because they aren't stupid.

So they aren't indulging in some weird conspiracy they are just acting as companies do; planning for the future so they don't go out of business. They aren't driving any panic about climate change and any one sensible who understands the science should be panicking.

When you say climate change panic you really just mean climate change reality. Mankind, as whole, should be panicking, there is lots to panic about; there is an huge amount of warming already built into the system that is coming our way and we continue to increase the amounts of CO2 we pump into the atmosphere because capitalism makes us addicted to cheap energy as it increases profits.

Renewables are getting to a tipping point where they are going to be cheaper than hydrocarbons now so that is passing, but it is passing too slowly and we need huge inter-governmental research into removing CO2 from the atmosphere and stopping more from getting to the atmosphere, but with that orange baboon in hock to Russia, one of the biggest exporters of natural gas in the world, that is unlikely to be lead by the USA and even a democratic president would probably do the square of fuck all unless they were Sanders.
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Hepcat » 11 Nov 2019, 15:30

Robert wrote:Well spoken Copehead!!

You have more patience than I do.


And even less brains than he does which is quite the trick. (e.g. "We Dutch are smart because we believe in climate change.")

:P

There's no denying climate change. There's also no denying that the climate has constantly changed for billions of years without mankind's intervention. Billions of years is a LOT of statistical evidence. So somehow we the mathematically oriented, the statistically oriented, the logically oriented, are to believe that a sample size of a piddly one to two centuries (which in geological terms is not even a good sample size of one) outweighs something like the 35 million previous samples where climate merrily changed without mankind's intercession? One piece of evidence in which there's a doubtful cause-and-effect relationship between two variables outweighs the evidence from the previous 35 million samples? Yeah, sure.

:roll:
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