Former President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Count Machuki
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 27 Mar 2019, 21:10

Count Machuki wrote:
Still Baron wrote:Sadly I haven’t had the free time to write out my reaction Barr’s letter, and I fear that the Dems are losing the messenging war on this. Here’s a start, which makes a point or three I wanted to make:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-does-b ... -collusion


This language suggests that Mueller’s report viewed the conduct through the lens of a criminal investigative process—that is, whether the evidence met the Department of Justice standards for prosecution, including the ability to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was intent to violate the law.


This is sort of what I've been thinking recently. That Mueller was such a stickler that he didn't make a recommendation to prosecute cause he was only 90-odd percent there, not 100 percent. And that he trusted the system to sort out the rest. Of course, if the system is being gamed by the subject of the investigation, well...

I don't know, it's tough for a layman. My law knowledge isn't nearly strong enough to have a really informed opinion.

Thanks for the link.


Preet Bharara says it better than I did:

Preet Bharara wrote:I suspect that Mueller believed the buck shouldn’t stop with him or the special counsel’s office. He understands that there’s another constitutionally prescribed mechanism for addressing bad conduct on the part of the president, namely Congress. But even though he didn’t make a decision to charge, it seems unquestionable that he discovered some bad conduct.


https://www.vox.com/2019/3/27/18277312/ ... et-bharara

This is worth a read.
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Count Machuki
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 27 Mar 2019, 21:16

furthermore, Preet Bharara wrote:Perhaps Mueller thought, “Well, when it’s a tough, high-stakes call like this, people are not going to have faith and trust in a definitive decision I make. It’s best handled by a political process that’s laid out in the Constitution.” And I don’t want to criticize that decision. This is not a random process. It’s been done before, and Congress can — and maybe should — handle it.


But again, Barr swept in and put his own imprimatur on it — while delaying the disclosure of the full Mueller report — causing his framing of it to be imprinted on the minds of lots and lots of people, and it may stay that way because the report may not come out for a long time.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 27 Mar 2019, 21:47

Yeah (mostly) what Preet B said (though I would frame it even less in terms of Mueller passing the buck).
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby mentalist (slight return) » 27 Mar 2019, 22:29

I just hope we get to see Bob Mueller on Dancing With The Stars now.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 28 Mar 2019, 01:43

bobzilla77 wrote:
this suggests that people working on something they think will be of great benefit to humanity, are capable of not just lying, but doing so and basically, no longer recognize that they are lying.



My sources named it quite a while ago: Trump Derangement Syndrome.

https://original.antiwar.com/David_Stoc ... s-for-you/
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 28 Mar 2019, 18:09

oh give me a break. a 3 to 7 Hundred Page Nothing Burger that needs to be redacted since the stuff that didn't happen is so important to National security. :lol:

you and your sources have been doing a victory horn pipe for so long that it's a little hard to view the ones you are doing now with fresh eyeballs.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Charlie O. » 28 Mar 2019, 18:29

bobzilla77 wrote:Matt Taibbi pointed out, while many journalists and their new orgs must have had reason to question some of the stories running around, they recognized that doing so would be beneficial to Trump. And the anti Trump forces were so powerful, no one wanted to be on the wrong side of them.

The "anti-Trump forces" are more powerful than Trump/the pro-Trump forces, eh?

Taibbi seriously needs to pull his head out of his ass, toot sweet.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 28 Mar 2019, 19:43

I like Taibbi a lot but I really get lost in the weeds with that one. same with Greenwald. Christopher Steele as Chalabi? Trump Campaign's Russian ties as WMDs?

also, it seems to me that they both presume to know what's in the report. maybe they do. that judge guy they have on FOX business is certainly talking like he has, who knows?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 28 Mar 2019, 19:45

mentalist (slight return) wrote:I just hope we get to see Bob Mueller on Dancing With The Stars now.

:lol: we should be so lucky.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby bobzilla77 » 28 Mar 2019, 19:56

Charlie O. wrote:
bobzilla77 wrote:Matt Taibbi pointed out, while many journalists and their new orgs must have had reason to question some of the stories running around, they recognized that doing so would be beneficial to Trump. And the anti Trump forces were so powerful, no one wanted to be on the wrong side of them.

The "anti-Trump forces" are more powerful than Trump/the pro-Trump forces, eh?

Taibbi seriously needs to pull his head out of his ass, toot sweet.


I don't want to mis-characterize his argument. I think the "anti Trump forces" I mention are the readers of those papers that were gleefully gulping down and spreading every story that looked bad for Trump, no matter how tenuous. The people paying for access. The cash incentive combined with the moral certainty led to poor judgment by some of those supposedly neutral news outlets.

You don't think that's possible?

Look, I don't like the guy. I want him out. But I am frustrated that this issue has been played all the way to the end with no result. I feel snookered.

And I am already terrified of the Democrats heading into 2020. Does anyone have policy prescriptions for what ails us? The only one I've heard recently was Kirsten Gillibrand saying she wants to prevent pain pill prescriptions for longer than 7 days. I've recovered from surgery myself - I can't possibly vote for someone who sees that as a serious solution to a national drug problem.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 28 Mar 2019, 20:11

I think Elizabeth Warren flattens the others in terms of outlining what she wants to do and how she wants to go about it. Too bad she reminds everybody of a well intentioned teacher that always wants you to volunteer for something.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Charlie O. » 28 Mar 2019, 20:22

:lol: Very well put. I agree with you on both points.

I think Gillibrand's a knucklehead, frankly. I predict she'll get knocked out of the race pretty quickly. Did you see her the last time she was on Colbert? I don't think she answered any of his questions. It was Pivot City - he'd ask about one thing, she'd answer about something else. She had prepared what she was going to say, and by gum she was going to stick to her script.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 28 Mar 2019, 20:42

I think she’s running for Cabinet.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby bobzilla77 » 28 Mar 2019, 22:30

It's too bad, I kind of liked her when I first saw her on the Daily Show.
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 28 Mar 2019, 23:49

shoot, I like 'em all. seriously. Donald J. TRUMP or a rotting sack of rutabagas....?
rotting sack of Rutabagas!!!

I thought she'd catch on faster than she has. the #metoo candidate sounds real good but she's just so... meh.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 28 Mar 2019, 23:59

Sneelock wrote:oh give me a break. a 3 to 7 Hundred Page Nothing Burger that needs to be redacted since the stuff that didn't happen is so important to National security. :lol:

you and your sources have been doing a victory horn pipe for so long that it's a little hard to view the ones you are doing now with fresh eyeballs.


I haven't heard a satisfactory answer as to why we can't see the Mueller report. Nonetheless, sounding awfully like buried NYT ledes the following come directly from the report:

“The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

“The evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference.”

That Russia is still on the hook bothers me but maybe that is where the full report will show more evidence of Putin's perfidy.

So I and my "sources" (please note the self-deprecation) were fucking right and you need to slap yourself awake and acknowledge that deeper and darker and more conspiratorial forces are at play here. Russiagate was an op gone nuts. They would do and say anything to prevent better relations with Russia. The Democratic party is as evil and as stupid as the Republican party but the CIA/FBI is even worse.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 29 Mar 2019, 00:11

great. so let's suppose all that is true. what's next? if AOC or Bernie or the Pied Piper of Hamelin can get a zillion registered voters good and politicized then sign me the fuck up.

meanwhile, back at the ranch, I'm going to support somebody with evil corporate dollars sticking out of all their crevices. you guys talk the talk but you don't walk the walk. give me something better than corporate whores to support and I'll bloody well do it.

I double dog dare you.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 29 Mar 2019, 00:12

Tulsi will probably do WAY better than Jill Stein but IMO she's just not a very good candidate, man. She's been doing politics for quite a while. she should be better at it.

I hear more about how inspiring she is than see evidence of actual cause for inspiration. compare and contrast to AOC I hear she's inspiring but I can see it for myself, you know?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 29 Mar 2019, 00:15

Sneelock wrote: give me something better than corporate whores to support and I'll bloody well do it.


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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 29 Mar 2019, 00:15

you know, she's really not that hot.
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