President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Count Machuki
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 11 Sep 2018, 02:22

Just caught another glimpse of Carter Page's hat on the news.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 11 Sep 2018, 02:25

Count Machuki wrote:Just caught another glimpse of Carter Page's hat on the news.


Such biting satire. :roll:
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 11 Sep 2018, 15:43

Carter Page's hat is a welcome respite from shit like this:

The President of the United States on his way to attend the 9/11 Flight 93 memorial service:

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I despair.
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Count Machuki
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 11 Sep 2018, 15:55

Jimbo wrote:
Count Machuki wrote:Just caught another glimpse of Carter Page's hat on the news.


Such biting satire. :roll:


I was going for childish mockery, but I guess your definition of satire may vary.

Look at that goof! Who wears a hat like that when they're going to court?!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 11 Sep 2018, 16:40

I'm counting on biting satire and childish mockery to carry me through this fucking thing.
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Count Machuki
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Count Machuki » 11 Sep 2018, 16:53

Sneelock wrote:I'm counting on biting satire and childish mockery to carry me through this fucking thing.


Hang in there, Snee

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 11 Sep 2018, 17:44

I think maybe that’s a good look for me.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 11 Sep 2018, 23:07

Robert Reich, who teaches at UC Berkeley, writes a weekly column in the opinion section of the local paper. His recent article on income disparity scared the crap out of me: https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/rei ... 204777.php
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 12 Sep 2018, 03:20



Run, Tulsi, run!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Copehead » 12 Sep 2018, 10:52

Well done Ireland!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby PENK » 13 Sep 2018, 16:56

GoogaMooga wrote:
Minnie Cheddars wrote:Baron got into a fight with some Satan’s Slaves over some culinary issue

Awful thing when that happens. I had a similar experience at a Tom Jones concert.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby harvey k-tel » 13 Sep 2018, 16:58

I know, eh? All those guns and crazy people and not one single person has made an attempt!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 13 Sep 2018, 18:02

I'm just going to paste in the piece from NY Mag; it has some important stuff that's not in the Guardian article.

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Earlier this week, Donald Trump declared his administration’s response to Hurricane Maria an “incredible, unsung success.”

This took aback many reporters and pundits. After all, that storm’s official death toll sits at nearly 3,000. And the the federal government’s relief effort was riddled with demonstrable failures: Despite receiving advance warning of the hurricane’s likely landfall in Puerto Rico, the administration neglected to deploy satellite phones, generators, and reserves of food, fuel, and water in advance of the storm. President Trump took a four-day golf vacation in its immediate aftermath. FEMA proceeded award a $156 million contract to a company that promised to provide 30 million meals to Puerto Rico; only 50,000 were ever delivered. While Puerto Ricans were still dying as a result of the hurricane — due to shortages of electricity and medical care — Trump informed the island’s inhabitants that they should be grateful that his efforts had spared them from suffering a “real catastrophe like Katrina.”

But on Thursday, Trump clarified his rationale for considering the hurricane response a triumph of disaster management: Hurricane Maria killed (at most) 18 Puerto Ricans — all those other deaths were fabricated by the Democratic Party to make Donald Trump look bad.

“3000 people did not die in the two hurricanes that hit Puerto Rico,” the president tweeted. “When I left the Island, AFTER the storm had hit, they had anywhere from 6 to 18 deaths. As time went by it did not go up by much. Then, a long time later, they started to report really large numbers, like 3000.”

“This was done by the Democrats in order to make me look as bad as possible when I was successfully raising Billions of Dollars to help rebuild Puerto Rico” Trump continued. “If a person died for any reason, like old age, just add them onto the list. Bad politics. I love Puerto Rico!”

This is not accurate. But Trump’s confusion is understandable — or rather, it would be understandable if he were some random American retiree and not the president of the United States. It is true that Hurricane Maria’s official death toll sat in the double digits for nearly a year after the storm. And it is also true that 3,000 U.S. citizens did not die “in” the hurricane — in the sense of being killed by storm surge or high winds. But that isn’t how anyone measures a hurricane’s death toll (including Donald Trump, who, during his visit to Puerto Rico, cited a death toll from Katrina that included those killed by the conditions that storm left in its wake).

Under the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s guidelines, a hurricane’s death toll comprises not only the number of lives lost to the storm’s immediate impact (as a result of flooding, flying debris, etc.), but also those lost as a result of shortages in material goods and medical services induced by the natural disaster. And, for weeks after Hurricane Maria, most of Puerto Rico lacked electricity, including its hospitals. Respirators stopped running. Dialysis clinics operated on generators and for limited hours. Medical supplies were scarce. Meanwhile large stretches of the territory had only limited access to food and potable water. Temperatures were high. Puerto Rico’s population is disproportionately elderly, and its elderly population is disproportionately impoverished.

By the time Trump visited Puerto Rico last year, it was already obvious that these conditions had killed far more Americans than official statistics accounted for. The government’s initial, official death toll was a product of bureaucratic red tape, not scientific research: Puerto Rican law stipulated that the Forensic Science Institute in San Juan had to confirm each disaster-related death, which required transporting bodies to San Juan or dispatching medical examiners to inspect dead bodies in rural municipalities. For this reason, no one seriously concerned by the question how many people had lost their lives to Maria looked to the initial government estimate for guidance.

The task of identifying those killed by the storm’s indirect effects is inherently difficult (like their fellow-citizens in the mainland United States, plenty of Puerto Ricans were suffering preventable deaths due to insufficient access to medical care long before Maria made landfall). But subsequent studies — including one commissioned by the Puerto Rican government, itself — have produced an estimated death toll of between 2,975 and 4,581.

The president’s tweets are monstrous in moral terms, evincing his (characteristic) disregard for the suffering of other human beings, and (equally characteristic) obsession with protecting his ego by any means necessary. But Trump’s remarks are also disastrous in political terms: The American media had done the president a great service by allowing Puerto Rico’s catastrophe to get lost in the news cycle’s ever-accelerating churn. Now, Trump has invited every newsroom in America to scrutinize exactly how many U.S. citizens his administration failed to save last year.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... 3-000.html
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby bobzilla77 » 13 Sep 2018, 22:04

As the Atlantic put it, the denialism of the death toll should surprise no one, because denialism is what led to the death toll getting so high in the first place. His warped reality is niw officially killing people.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 13 Sep 2018, 22:28

The worst part, for me, is the “true believers”. I’m around people who believe anything this guy says. They are willing to only count 6 or 18 of those thousands of people. They are willing to overlook children in fucking cages and get ALL angry & superior with anyone who tries to engage them on these issues.HE is getting meaner and THEY are getting meaner. It’s hard not to get pretty depressed about the whole thing.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Stille Baron » 14 Sep 2018, 15:31

Word is that Manafort is pleading to an unusually long and detailed information (like an indictment), which should have lots of information and many documents attached as exhibits. Should be innarestin.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 14 Sep 2018, 16:31

Assuming Manafort is giving up information harmful to Trump, what can Mueller realistically do with such information?

He won’t try to secure an indictment. He can’t sue Trump in civil court.

What’s the way forward in terms of exposing any crimes and effecting justice?

Would he just provide a sealed report to Congress and we’ll never know what it says? That seems pretty anti-climactic!
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Stille Baron » 14 Sep 2018, 16:35

Snarfyguy wrote:Would he just provide a sealed report to Congress and we’ll never know what it says? That seems pretty anti-climactic!


Yeah. I think that’s right.

And that it may be Rosenstein’s call whether it’s sealed or not.

Ultimately, it’ll get out.

Politico now reports that Manafort is cooperating.
Last edited by Stille Baron on 14 Sep 2018, 16:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 14 Sep 2018, 16:36

What does Mueller get out of a plea deal with Manafort, just the luxury of not having to prove his case in court (about which I would have thought he'd be pretty confident, but you never know with a jury, I guess)?

EDIT: I'm now seeing reports that Manafort is "cooperating" with Mueller, so perhaps a moot point.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Stille Baron » 14 Sep 2018, 16:48

Snarfyguy wrote:What does Mueller get out of a plea deal with Manafort, just the luxury of not having to prove his case in court (about which I would have thought he'd be pretty confident, but you never know with a jury, I guess)?

EDIT: I'm now seeing reports that Manafort is "cooperating" with Mueller, so perhaps a moot point.


First, they don't have to go to trial, which means they can focus on other things and move this thing that much quicker. As you can imagine, trials like these are major, major pains in the ass with a tremendous amount of work and uncertainty. Apart from cooperation, what Mueller gets is Manafort basically swearing to all of the allegations in the information, which now become evidence with some weight behind them. These building blocks become solidified and established as "facts" or "evidence." Whatever they are alleging is now sworn to/admitted to, and they can move on to the next thing. I think.
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