Former President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
sloopjohnc
Posts: 63924
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby sloopjohnc » 11 Sep 2018, 23:07

Robert Reich, who teaches at UC Berkeley, writes a weekly column in the opinion section of the local paper. His recent article on income disparity scared the crap out of me: https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/rei ... 204777.php
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk!

Jimbo
Dribbling idiot airhead
Posts: 19645
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 12 Sep 2018, 03:20



Run, Tulsi, run!
Question authority.

User avatar
copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 24763
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby copehead » 12 Sep 2018, 10:52

Well done Ireland!
Dancing in the streets of Hyannis

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Penk!
Midnight to Six Man
Posts: 35784
Joined: 07 Aug 2004, 20:12
Location: Stockholm

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Penk! » 13 Sep 2018, 16:56

fange wrote:One of the things i really dislike in this life is people raising their voices in German.

User avatar
harvey k-tel
Long Player
Posts: 40893
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 23:20
Location: 1220 on your AM dial

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby harvey k-tel » 13 Sep 2018, 16:58

I know, eh? All those guns and crazy people and not one single person has made an attempt!
Tempora mutatur et nos mutamur in illis

User avatar
Snarfyguy
Dominated by the Obscure
Posts: 53502
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:04
Location: New York

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 13 Sep 2018, 18:02

I'm just going to paste in the piece from NY Mag; it has some important stuff that's not in the Guardian article.

Image

Earlier this week, Donald Trump declared his administration’s response to Hurricane Maria an “incredible, unsung success.”

This took aback many reporters and pundits. After all, that storm’s official death toll sits at nearly 3,000. And the the federal government’s relief effort was riddled with demonstrable failures: Despite receiving advance warning of the hurricane’s likely landfall in Puerto Rico, the administration neglected to deploy satellite phones, generators, and reserves of food, fuel, and water in advance of the storm. President Trump took a four-day golf vacation in its immediate aftermath. FEMA proceeded award a $156 million contract to a company that promised to provide 30 million meals to Puerto Rico; only 50,000 were ever delivered. While Puerto Ricans were still dying as a result of the hurricane — due to shortages of electricity and medical care — Trump informed the island’s inhabitants that they should be grateful that his efforts had spared them from suffering a “real catastrophe like Katrina.”

But on Thursday, Trump clarified his rationale for considering the hurricane response a triumph of disaster management: Hurricane Maria killed (at most) 18 Puerto Ricans — all those other deaths were fabricated by the Democratic Party to make Donald Trump look bad.

“3000 people did not die in the two hurricanes that hit Puerto Rico,” the president tweeted. “When I left the Island, AFTER the storm had hit, they had anywhere from 6 to 18 deaths. As time went by it did not go up by much. Then, a long time later, they started to report really large numbers, like 3000.”

“This was done by the Democrats in order to make me look as bad as possible when I was successfully raising Billions of Dollars to help rebuild Puerto Rico” Trump continued. “If a person died for any reason, like old age, just add them onto the list. Bad politics. I love Puerto Rico!”

This is not accurate. But Trump’s confusion is understandable — or rather, it would be understandable if he were some random American retiree and not the president of the United States. It is true that Hurricane Maria’s official death toll sat in the double digits for nearly a year after the storm. And it is also true that 3,000 U.S. citizens did not die “in” the hurricane — in the sense of being killed by storm surge or high winds. But that isn’t how anyone measures a hurricane’s death toll (including Donald Trump, who, during his visit to Puerto Rico, cited a death toll from Katrina that included those killed by the conditions that storm left in its wake).

Under the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s guidelines, a hurricane’s death toll comprises not only the number of lives lost to the storm’s immediate impact (as a result of flooding, flying debris, etc.), but also those lost as a result of shortages in material goods and medical services induced by the natural disaster. And, for weeks after Hurricane Maria, most of Puerto Rico lacked electricity, including its hospitals. Respirators stopped running. Dialysis clinics operated on generators and for limited hours. Medical supplies were scarce. Meanwhile large stretches of the territory had only limited access to food and potable water. Temperatures were high. Puerto Rico’s population is disproportionately elderly, and its elderly population is disproportionately impoverished.

By the time Trump visited Puerto Rico last year, it was already obvious that these conditions had killed far more Americans than official statistics accounted for. The government’s initial, official death toll was a product of bureaucratic red tape, not scientific research: Puerto Rican law stipulated that the Forensic Science Institute in San Juan had to confirm each disaster-related death, which required transporting bodies to San Juan or dispatching medical examiners to inspect dead bodies in rural municipalities. For this reason, no one seriously concerned by the question how many people had lost their lives to Maria looked to the initial government estimate for guidance.

The task of identifying those killed by the storm’s indirect effects is inherently difficult (like their fellow-citizens in the mainland United States, plenty of Puerto Ricans were suffering preventable deaths due to insufficient access to medical care long before Maria made landfall). But subsequent studies — including one commissioned by the Puerto Rican government, itself — have produced an estimated death toll of between 2,975 and 4,581.

The president’s tweets are monstrous in moral terms, evincing his (characteristic) disregard for the suffering of other human beings, and (equally characteristic) obsession with protecting his ego by any means necessary. But Trump’s remarks are also disastrous in political terms: The American media had done the president a great service by allowing Puerto Rico’s catastrophe to get lost in the news cycle’s ever-accelerating churn. Now, Trump has invited every newsroom in America to scrutinize exactly how many U.S. citizens his administration failed to save last year.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... 3-000.html
GoogaMooga wrote: The further away from home you go, the greater the risk of getting stuck there.

User avatar
bobzilla77
Posts: 16280
Joined: 23 Jun 2006, 02:56
Location: Dilute! Dilute! OK!

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby bobzilla77 » 13 Sep 2018, 22:04

As the Atlantic put it, the denialism of the death toll should surprise no one, because denialism is what led to the death toll getting so high in the first place. His warped reality is niw officially killing people.
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.

User avatar
Sneelock
Posts: 14077
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 23:56
Location: Lincoln Head City

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Sneelock » 13 Sep 2018, 22:28

The worst part, for me, is the “true believers”. I’m around people who believe anything this guy says. They are willing to only count 6 or 18 of those thousands of people. They are willing to overlook children in fucking cages and get ALL angry & superior with anyone who tries to engage them on these issues.HE is getting meaner and THEY are getting meaner. It’s hard not to get pretty depressed about the whole thing.
uggy poopy doody.

User avatar
BARON CORNY DOG
Diamond Geezer
Posts: 45153
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 05:38
Location: Impregnable Citadel of Technicality

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 14 Sep 2018, 15:31

Word is that Manafort is pleading to an unusually long and detailed information (like an indictment), which should have lots of information and many documents attached as exhibits. Should be innarestin.
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

User avatar
Snarfyguy
Dominated by the Obscure
Posts: 53502
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:04
Location: New York

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 14 Sep 2018, 16:31

Assuming Manafort is giving up information harmful to Trump, what can Mueller realistically do with such information?

He won’t try to secure an indictment. He can’t sue Trump in civil court.

What’s the way forward in terms of exposing any crimes and effecting justice?

Would he just provide a sealed report to Congress and we’ll never know what it says? That seems pretty anti-climactic!
GoogaMooga wrote: The further away from home you go, the greater the risk of getting stuck there.

User avatar
BARON CORNY DOG
Diamond Geezer
Posts: 45153
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 05:38
Location: Impregnable Citadel of Technicality

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 14 Sep 2018, 16:35

Snarfyguy wrote:Would he just provide a sealed report to Congress and we’ll never know what it says? That seems pretty anti-climactic!


Yeah. I think that’s right.

And that it may be Rosenstein’s call whether it’s sealed or not.

Ultimately, it’ll get out.

Politico now reports that Manafort is cooperating.
Last edited by BARON CORNY DOG on 14 Sep 2018, 16:39, edited 1 time in total.
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

User avatar
Snarfyguy
Dominated by the Obscure
Posts: 53502
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:04
Location: New York

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 14 Sep 2018, 16:36

What does Mueller get out of a plea deal with Manafort, just the luxury of not having to prove his case in court (about which I would have thought he'd be pretty confident, but you never know with a jury, I guess)?

EDIT: I'm now seeing reports that Manafort is "cooperating" with Mueller, so perhaps a moot point.
GoogaMooga wrote: The further away from home you go, the greater the risk of getting stuck there.

User avatar
BARON CORNY DOG
Diamond Geezer
Posts: 45153
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 05:38
Location: Impregnable Citadel of Technicality

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 14 Sep 2018, 16:48

Snarfyguy wrote:What does Mueller get out of a plea deal with Manafort, just the luxury of not having to prove his case in court (about which I would have thought he'd be pretty confident, but you never know with a jury, I guess)?

EDIT: I'm now seeing reports that Manafort is "cooperating" with Mueller, so perhaps a moot point.


First, they don't have to go to trial, which means they can focus on other things and move this thing that much quicker. As you can imagine, trials like these are major, major pains in the ass with a tremendous amount of work and uncertainty. Apart from cooperation, what Mueller gets is Manafort basically swearing to all of the allegations in the information, which now become evidence with some weight behind them. These building blocks become solidified and established as "facts" or "evidence." Whatever they are alleging is now sworn to/admitted to, and they can move on to the next thing. I think.
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

User avatar
Snarfyguy
Dominated by the Obscure
Posts: 53502
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:04
Location: New York

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 14 Sep 2018, 18:02

A "pardon-proof" plea deal?

Here’s why this deal is pardon proof:

1. Mueller spent the hour and a half delay in arraignment doing … something. It’s possible Manafort even presented the key parts of testimony Mueller needs from him to the grand jury this morning.
2. The forfeiture in this plea is both criminal and civil, meaning DOJ will be able to get Manafort’s $46 million even with a pardon.
3. Some of the dismissed charges are financial ones that can be charged in various states.


https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/09/14/t ... don-proof/

I have no idea if this person is credible and some of the post is speculative, but at the very least the objection that the investigation has been too expensive, or a waste of money, is now off the table for good.
GoogaMooga wrote: The further away from home you go, the greater the risk of getting stuck there.

User avatar
BARON CORNY DOG
Diamond Geezer
Posts: 45153
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 05:38
Location: Impregnable Citadel of Technicality

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 14 Sep 2018, 18:47

I follow emptywheel on twitter and they typically seem to know what they’re talking about.
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

User avatar
BARON CORNY DOG
Diamond Geezer
Posts: 45153
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 05:38
Location: Impregnable Citadel of Technicality

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 15 Sep 2018, 02:22

LeBaron wrote:
Snarfyguy wrote:Would he just provide a sealed report to Congress and we’ll never know what it says? That seems pretty anti-climactic!


Yeah. I think that’s right.

And that it may be Rosenstein’s call whether it’s sealed or not.

Ultimately, it’ll get out.


Some answers in this very interesting piece . . .

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/us/p ... rgate.html
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

Jimbo
Dribbling idiot airhead
Posts: 19645
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 21:22

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 15 Sep 2018, 09:33

Trump Is Still No Closer To Impeachment. At What Point Do Russiagaters Lose Faith?

“Mueller isn’t going to find anything in 2017 that these vast, sprawling networks wouldn’t have found in 2016. He’s not going to find anything by ‘following the money’ that couldn’t be found infinitely more efficaciously via Orwellian espionage. The factions within the intelligence community that were working to sabotage the incoming administration last year would have leaked proof of collusion if they’d had it. They did not have it then, and they do not have it now. Mueller will continue finding evidence of corruption throughout his investigation, since corruption is to DC insiders as water is to fish, but he will not find evidence of collusion to win the 2016 election that will lead to Trump’s impeachment. It will not happen.”
~ Me, last year.



Russiagaters have been assuring me since the beginning of last year that collusion will be proven, that Trump is going to be impeached and removed from office any minute now and spend the rest of his life behind bars for attacking American democracy and helping a hostile state infiltrate the highest levels of the US government. We are fast approaching the halfway point of this president’s term, and we are not one iota closer to his being removed from office than we were on the day of his inauguration. The BOOMs never bear fruit. The flips never come. All we get is a lot of drama while dangerous escalations between two nuclear superpowers continue to steadily mount with full bipartisan support on Capitol Hill and the full consent of the public.

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/trum ... 9a514438fb
Question authority.

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 24007
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Sep 2018, 08:49

That certainly doesn’t describe what I’m seeing.

From over here it looks like the noose is tightening around Trump’s neck daily. I don’t know if collusion will be proved, but I’d be surprised if a long history of Russian money laundering weren’t.
“Remember I have said good things about benevolent despots before.” - Jimbo

Image

User avatar
Rayge
Posts: 15288
Joined: 14 Aug 2013, 11:37
Location: Zummerzet
Contact:

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Rayge » 17 Sep 2018, 17:42

Sorry to interrupt the debate, and I know this is not particularly up to date, but it made me cry with laughter in places: Gilbert and Sullivan were never this good

In timeless moments we live forever

You can't play a tune on an absolute

Negative Capability...when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact & reason”

User avatar
Hightea
Posts: 4364
Joined: 16 Apr 2015, 02:18
Location: NY state

Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Hightea » 17 Sep 2018, 18:50

Jimbo wrote:
Trump Is Still No Closer To Impeachment. At What Point Do Russiagaters Lose Faith?

“Mueller isn’t going to find anything in 2017 that these vast, sprawling networks wouldn’t have found in 2016. He’s not going to find anything by ‘following the money’ that couldn’t be found infinitely more efficaciously via Orwellian espionage. The factions within the intelligence community that were working to sabotage the incoming administration last year would have leaked proof of collusion if they’d had it. They did not have it then, and they do not have it now. Mueller will continue finding evidence of corruption throughout his investigation, since corruption is to DC insiders as water is to fish, but he will not find evidence of collusion to win the 2016 election that will lead to Trump’s impeachment. It will not happen.”
~ Me, last year.



Russiagaters have been assuring me since the beginning of last year that collusion will be proven, that Trump is going to be impeached and removed from office any minute now and spend the rest of his life behind bars for attacking American democracy and helping a hostile state infiltrate the highest levels of the US government. We are fast approaching the halfway point of this president’s term, and we are not one iota closer to his being removed from office than we were on the day of his inauguration. The BOOMs never bear fruit. The flips never come. All we get is a lot of drama while dangerous escalations between two nuclear superpowers continue to steadily mount with full bipartisan support on Capitol Hill and the full consent of the public.

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/trum ... 9a514438fb

I stated the day Trump was elected that he would not make it 4 years. I see nothing currently that will change my mind he will step down or be impeached within two years. Although I could see a scenario where he makes it thru the 4 years but is told he can't run for a second term.


Return to “Nextdoorland”