Happy Birthday, NHS!

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Eddie Shah environment » 05 Jul 2018, 13:59

Great crikes!
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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Rayge » 05 Jul 2018, 14:06

Fonz wrote:
Rayge wrote:
ORORORO wrote:Ray - of course I don't know what the precise figures are, but a half-percentage increase in the basic rate would make a huge difference.


It's fonz that said it wouldn't make much of a difference. I wouldn't know even the ballpark figures, let alone precise ones..



I’m interested in how you think ‘private medicine...should pay more than they already do’.

I understand the principle that healthcare shouldn’t be ‘two-tier’, but in practical terms the private sector absorbs a relatively small but significant amount of activity away from the NHS. If there were no private providers the NHS would have an extra burden.
Bear in mind that those paying for private care have already paid their contribution to the NHS- they are paying twice.


By introducing swingeing levels of VAT – 100% or more – specifically for private medicine ring-fenced for NHS support.
And, as I intimated in my reply to Toby above, I couldn't care less about 'fairness' when it comes to money, except in the form of from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs.
But I still feel I'm thread-crapping and don't want to talk about this any more - few subjects rile me more – and I don't want to get caught up in a someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet scenario, so I'm bowing out by saying I love the NHS and all who sail in her and won't be back on this thread.
Last edited by Rayge on 05 Jul 2018, 17:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Darkness_Fish » 05 Jul 2018, 14:54

I don't know why these discussions always have to fall down on ideological grounds. Can't we all just accept that the NHS is a great institution, and that it gnaws at the very soul of the blood-sucking Tories that it exists, and we should remember that those vile fuckers didn't want it in the first place, and would do away with it in a heartbeat if they fought they could sell it to a gullible public.
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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Eddie Shah environment » 05 Jul 2018, 15:00

Toby?
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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Samoan » 05 Jul 2018, 15:30

Fonz wrote:70 years and counting

Thoughts?

I still have my sister who recovered from a ruptured appendix and peritonitis when she was 12.
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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Toby » 05 Jul 2018, 17:20

ORORORO wrote:Toby?


The issue I guess for most people of a conservative persuasion is that it should not be a sacred cow.

When institutions, particularly those not concerned with the law, become like this it causes problems. Most people of a conservative bent in this country would, I imagine, agree on the whole that the NHS has been a good thing for this country. However that is not to say that it should be immune from criticism or that it shouldn't be reformed. It is a vast money pit and conservatives on the whole get riled when fiscal irresponsibility is widespread in public institutions. The NHS, as Fonz says, could take a whole lot more money than it is getting, but who knows whether that money would be used responsibly.

The way things are going, it seems that in certain areas, particularly end-of-life care, the NHS is seen as a market leader, whereas in others it is not. We are transitioning to a point where making choices on one's healthcare is seen as inevitable. You can take the cheap NHS option, but in certain situations, particularly non-critical ones, if you take the free option, you know that it's not going to be particularly great and you will have to wait. If you go private, then you'll get seen. A friend of mine has had several health issues over the last couple of years, none of which were critical, and in those situations, he went private because of "peace of mind".

I was in A&E in Croydon a fortnight ago with my father on a Thursday night. It was full of pissed or drugged people, who plainly had just had too much and decided that A&E was the best place to go. It is this sort of thing that I feel rightly angers a lot of the population - irresponsibility that is a significant drain on very important resources.

In my mind I think it is important that the NHS be transparent about just how much things cost and also to penalise people if it is felt that the service has been misused. Go to A&E and it's decided that you've wasted the doctor's time? £50 taken out of your next pay packet. Make a doctor's appointment and don't use it? £20 to make your next one if you do in a certain timeframe. When things are "free", it creates a mindset in certain sections of the population that becomes problematic. I realise that there is a moral minefield in the last paragraph, but I think when others glorify the NHS, it is important to remind them just how much it costs for everyone and all the other attendant issues that come from it.

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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby sloopjohnc » 05 Jul 2018, 17:46

Dude!

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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Eddie Shah environment » 05 Jul 2018, 17:47

aye
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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Goat Boy » 05 Jul 2018, 18:13

Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Jeemo » 05 Jul 2018, 18:31

The NHS is a wonderful but flawed beast. I've had both bad and good. The good is when everything goes well. The bad having to argue with a Doctor called out to my Mum. Initially refusing to call for an ambulance as he wanted to wait morning to see how she was. She was at the time lying flat out on the couch struggling to breathe.

He eventually and very reluctantly called for an ambulance. My mum had a heart attack in the ambulance in the hospital car park and flatlined. Luckily being so close to all the necessary equipment they managed to bring her back. Which wouldn't have happened if the Doctor stood his ground.
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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Wally Bingbang » 05 Jul 2018, 18:49

Happy fuckin' Birthday, NHS!!
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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby caramba » 05 Jul 2018, 18:56

Jeemo wrote:The NHS is a wonderful but flawed beast. I've had both bad and good. The good is when everything goes well. The bad having to argue with a Doctor called out to my Mum. Initially refusing to call for an ambulance as he wanted to wait morning to see how she was. She was at the time lying flat out on the couch struggling to breathe.

He eventually and very reluctantly called for an ambulance. My mum had a heart attack in the ambulance in the hospital car park and flatlined. Luckily being so close to all the necessary equipment they managed to bring her back. Which wouldn't have happened if the Doctor stood his ground.


Happy birthday NHS!

Similar story to J's here.

I was born with a terrible birth defect which the NHS couldn't have been more wonderful in eventually fixing.

Unfortunately, our family GP of around 20 years standing refused to come out because of bad weather after my Mum called him to let him know my Dad urgently needed some kind of medical assistance after he collapsed in the living room. He died shortly after my sister drove him to hospital.

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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Fonz » 05 Jul 2018, 19:26

caramba wrote:
Jeemo wrote:The NHS is a wonderful but flawed beast. I've had both bad and good. The good is when everything goes well. The bad having to argue with a Doctor called out to my Mum. Initially refusing to call for an ambulance as he wanted to wait morning to see how she was. She was at the time lying flat out on the couch struggling to breathe.

He eventually and very reluctantly called for an ambulance. My mum had a heart attack in the ambulance in the hospital car park and flatlined. Luckily being so close to all the necessary equipment they managed to bring her back. Which wouldn't have happened if the Doctor stood his ground.


Happy birthday NHS!

Similar story to J's here.

I was born with a terrible birth defect which the NHS couldn't have been more wonderful in eventually fixing.

Unfortunately, our family GP of around 20 years standing refused to come out because of bad weather after my Mum called him to let him know my Dad urgently needed some kind of medical assistance after he collapsed in the living room. He died shortly after my sister drove him to hospital.


I sympathise with yours and Jeemo’s bad experience, but I would point out that they were bad judgements by ndividual doctors, rather than a failing with the NHS.

In a non-socialised healthcare system you would still get doctors making mistakes.
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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Jeemo » 05 Jul 2018, 19:36

True. But the question was posed had anyone had a bad experience?
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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Thang-y » 05 Jul 2018, 19:42

I adore the NHS. Absolutely adore it. The care and attention given when my husband was dying slowly and painfully and with many very serious complications .. I'll be always grateful. Well above and beyond.

I have a young student nurse chum who assures me this government is trying to run it into the ground. And she will have to go into very serious debt to qualify as a nurse and unless she works as an agency nurse is concerned how long it's going to take to pay it off.

It's depressing seeing it and people struggle when it wouldn't be that difficult to ease the financial problems without more and more cuts to services.

But, like Rayge, I'll bow out of discussing it; opinion wanted and given.

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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Copehead » 06 Jul 2018, 00:36

I'd just point out that we spend 8.5% of our GDP on the NHS so before we try and compare it to other services with better outcomes we should look at what they spend on health care as a % of GDP.

There are no countries of a comparable size which do it cheaper that doesn't mean we couldn't do it better.

Making sure a friend/Family member of Jeremy Hunt's gets a slice of health spending to provide a health care service does not strike me as doing it better.
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Re: Happy Birthday, NHS!

Postby Jimbo » 12 Jul 2018, 07:38

New health sec took £30k in donations from chairman of think tank pushing to abolish NHS

Matthew Hancock, the new Health Sec has received £30,000 in private donations, since 2010, from the chairman of IEA, a free market think tank that advocates the abolition of the NHS, raising questions of a conflict of interest ...

The IEA's publications on the NHS show they are dominated by calls for "major structural reform", concluding: "The NHS is not worth defending." They also make clear that they want an insurance-based healthcare system in the UK, open to private insurance firms from which to profit.

Kate Andrews, IEA's news editor, has made a string of media appearances in recent months to dismiss any notion that the NHS should be celebrated – frequently claiming that it requires major structural reform. NHS advocates have questioned whether an American representative of a company that refuses to say who funds its work, can make impartial critiques about the UK's healthcare system.


https://www.rt.com/uk/432487-hancock-nhs-iea-abolish/
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