Writing

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Toby
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Re: Writing

Postby Toby » 25 May 2018, 12:07

People who think they have a book in them

Start fucking writing

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Re: Writing

Postby ORORORO » 25 May 2018, 12:08

But to what end?
the Fred Dinenage of bees! wrote:BCB is boring bald men stroking each other's cocks while recommending Alan Parsons Project bootlegs

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gash on ignore
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Re: Writing

Postby gash on ignore » 25 May 2018, 12:12

Pleasure, a test, a giggle.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dog wrote:I could of course be talking bollocks... let's see what any musicians have to say


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Re: Writing

Postby hippopotamus » 25 May 2018, 12:26

BOLLY BEE wrote:But to what end?


I feel like this is a little bit like a piggy-back thread to yours on creativity.
Why DON'T you do it.

What's the point of creating anything? To make something. To try. To express yourself. To avoid regret at not doing it.

Also, it's a fact that you're the only person who could make the book that you would make. Isn't the whole purpose of life to be that person and make that singular contribution?
Diamond Dog wrote:
nev gash wrote:What is point?


Indeed, what is point?

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Re: Writing

Postby ORORORO » 25 May 2018, 12:28

To be honest, I'd only bother doing it if it benefited me financially. I'd want it published and out there in bookshops.
the Fred Dinenage of bees! wrote:BCB is boring bald men stroking each other's cocks while recommending Alan Parsons Project bootlegs

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Re: Writing

Postby Minnie the Minx » 25 May 2018, 12:30

Robert wrote:
Minnie the Minx wrote:My finest work sprung forth like pus from a boil between the ages of 7 and 11, when my Dad had left and I spent all my days avoiding my mother and hammering out freaky, somber stories, plays and poems on a typewriter. When my Mum died, I found she had saved all these and and all the grotesque things I used to draw, and wrote my ages on them. Most Mums would have dragged them off to the kiddie shrink. My Mum used these to persuade the school I should get "special treatment".

One of my more cheerful ditties: (typos left intact)

THE FAILURE

He was a laugh. He was a flop.
He made people laugh and cry.
He led a disaster life -
He wished that he could die.

He owned a little cottage at the end of Thornton Lane.
His wife had gone off with a lover,
He nearly died in shame.

Luck was hiding in a corner
Never coming out.
It stayed away from this poor man,
It made him scream and shout.

He weeped himself to bed at night and woke up at 4
His grandchildren and nieces wouldn't see him any more.
He did a thing that nearly everybody loathes,
He bought some sleeping pills and he took an overdose.

He worked too hard. He fought too hard. And now it comes to this.
He had a private funeral. May his soul rest in peace.

BY ANNA AGED 10 8th JANUARY (ten to seven, Tuesday)


I wrote that a day after my birthday. It must have been a fucking bobby dazzler


That is pretty strong for a ten year old! I particularly like this:

He owned a little cottage at the end of Thornton Lane.
His wife had gone off with a lover,
He nearly died in shame.

Luck was hiding in a corner
Never coming out.


Dysfunctional childhoods have their silver linings! Hashtag tinywriter hashtag the muse of parental court proceedings
You come at the Queen, you best not miss.

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Someone in your line of work usually as their own man cave aka the shed we're they can potter around fixing stuff or something don't they?

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Re: Writing

Postby Minnie the Minx » 25 May 2018, 12:32

Tom Waits For No One wrote:
Minnie the Minx wrote:My finest work sprung forth like pus from a boil between the ages of 7 and 11, when my Dad had left and I spent all my days avoiding my mother and hammering out freaky, somber stories, plays and poems on a typewriter. When my Mum died, I found she had saved all these and and all the grotesque things I used to draw, and wrote my ages on them. Most Mums would have dragged them off to the kiddie shrink. My Mum used these to persuade the school I should get "special treatment".

One of my more cheerful ditties: (typos left intact)

THE FAILURE

He was a laugh. He was a flop.
He made people laugh and cry.
He led a disaster life -
He wished that he could die.

He owned a little cottage at the end of Thornton Lane.
His wife had gone off with a lover,
He nearly died in shame.

Luck was hiding in a corner
Never coming out.
It stayed away from this poor man,
It made him scream and shout.

He weeped himself to bed at night and woke up at 4
His grandchildren and nieces wouldn't see him any more.
He did a thing that nearly everybody loathes,
He bought some sleeping pills and he took an overdose.

He worked too hard. He fought too hard. And now it comes to this.
He had a private funeral. May his soul rest in peace.

BY ANNA AGED 10 8th JANUARY (ten to seven, Tuesday)


I wrote that a day after my birthday. It must have been a fucking bobby dazzler


Now you're playing the gee-tar, put some music to it.
A sure fire Country & (North West)ern hit!


:D
You come at the Queen, you best not miss.

Dr Markus wrote:
Someone in your line of work usually as their own man cave aka the shed we're they can potter around fixing stuff or something don't they?

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hippopotamus
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Re: Writing

Postby hippopotamus » 25 May 2018, 12:32

For me, I have never had any inclination toward creative writing.
I love poetry and I love reading. I appreciate good writing in a passionate way but, or maybe because of this, I have never really felt inclined to add to the volume written output.

I like Communicating, though. I have always loved writing nice letters. Sometimes it works over e-mail too.
Perhaps a journal... but I think I need an Audience.
Diamond Dog wrote:
nev gash wrote:What is point?


Indeed, what is point?

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hippopotamus
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Re: Writing

Postby hippopotamus » 25 May 2018, 12:32

BOLLY BEE wrote:To be honest, I'd only bother doing it if it benefited me financially. I'd want it published and out there in bookshops.


I'd read it.
You would have to illustrate it too, though.
Diamond Dog wrote:
nev gash wrote:What is point?


Indeed, what is point?

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Re: Writing

Postby ORORORO » 25 May 2018, 12:45

You could! :)
the Fred Dinenage of bees! wrote:BCB is boring bald men stroking each other's cocks while recommending Alan Parsons Project bootlegs

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Toby
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Re: Writing

Postby Toby » 25 May 2018, 13:27

Just write the book John. It doesn't matter if it's published - the process of doing it might produce some unintended side-effects or styles or train of thought.

I think if I could have my time again, I would write a diary from a young age. I was encouraged to do so with my study and I've kept it up for 4 years as it comes to a close next week. The ability to reflect and to be truthful with oneself is a hugely important thing for development.

I've been engaged with writing essays and dissertations for the the last four years, as well as drafting and preparing for them. I can write well, but it takes a long time. My process is like a slowly simmering accumulation of things I want to say, produced over a period. Very often I've sat at my computer all evening and have written three sentences. Sometimes, like yesterday, I can fire off 500 words in 20 minutes without thinking about it. It can be frustrating, particularly as I often feel I've wasted time, but then when I receive my marks and get told I'm "an immense pleasure to read" I feel that it's vindicated. I guess my point is that if you can identify what your style (not only your writing but your creativity) is and accommodate it, then it's a bonus.


I've used Scrivener, which is a brilliant piece of software, and at £30 a real steal. All of my degree study is on one file and I love the organisation it provides. If there's one thing I think that can help people write who are not naturally talented (i.e they can just roll off words and sentences) then organisation and tech can go a long way to help.

Michael Moorcock's writing advice to me seems the most coherent. Copy styles and genres things you like and write a lot every day.

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Re: Writing

Postby hippopotamus » 25 May 2018, 13:35

Toby wrote:Just write the book John. It doesn't matter if it's published - the process of doing it might produce some unintended side-effects or styles or train of thought.

I think if I could have my time again, I would write a diary from a young age. I was encouraged to do so with my study and I've kept it up for 4 years as it comes to a close next week. The ability to reflect and to be truthful with oneself is a hugely important thing for development.

I've been engaged with writing essays and dissertations for the the last four years, as well as drafting and preparing for them. I've used Scrivener, which is a brilliant piece of software, and at £30 a real steal. All of my degree study is on one file and I love the organisation it provides. If there's one thing I think that can help people write who are not naturally talented (i.e they can just roll off words and sentences) then organisation and tech can go a long way to help.

Michael Moorcock's writing advice to me seems the most coherent. Copy styles and genres things you like and write a lot every day.



What does Scrivener actually do?

I've been trying to write a grant application all day.

I find it interesting how many different approaches there are for organising your mind, and putting a mess of ideas into a logical, compelling sequence.
I find that the words I see on the page frame my thoughts, rather than the other way round. I sometimes open multiple document so I can have more blank space in which to think, without getting stuck into what I already see in front of me.

I've spent the day writing good sentences and then trying to put them into some sort of narrative. Deleting a page of narrative without any good thoughts. I get a lot of satisfaction with a short document well written, but how it goes from emptiness to elegance sometimes baffles me.
Diamond Dog wrote:
nev gash wrote:What is point?


Indeed, what is point?

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Re: Writing

Postby Toby » 25 May 2018, 13:38

https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/overview

It's really whatever you want it to be. I have used it for my degree, where I essentially write up my notes and tag everything accordingly - so any work I've written, I tag appropriately e.g "Hadrian" or "Structuralism" etc. Then everything I want to read with those tags I can access easily. I suspect that I've not even touched 10% of its capabilities, but it has served me very well.

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Re: Writing

Postby Robert » 25 May 2018, 13:41

BOLLY BEE wrote:To be honest, I'd only bother doing it if it benefited me financially. I'd want it published and out there in bookshops.


As good a reason as any other I guess but you won't find out untill you try it.

Why don't you try a 33 1/3 on the Fall?

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Re: Writing

Postby hippopotamus » 25 May 2018, 13:46

Toby wrote:https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/overview

It's really whatever you want it to be. I have used it for my degree, where I essentially write up my notes and tag everything accordingly - so any work I've written, I tag appropriately e.g "Hadrian" or "Structuralism" etc. Then everything I want to read with those tags I can access easily. I suspect that I've not even touched 10% of its capabilities, but it has served me very well.



I think this is going to be the beginning of a beautiful friendship
Diamond Dog wrote:
nev gash wrote:What is point?


Indeed, what is point?

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Re: Writing

Postby hippopotamus » 25 May 2018, 13:46

toomanyhatz wrote:Poetry, song lyrics, short stories (one or two that I think are good), one long-abandoned movie script that I think has potential that I might one day revive, film and music (and occasionally book) reviews, and interviews for various publications.

Of the bunch I think I'm best at the film reviews.

The poetry's decent, but I'm one of the few people who reads poetry regularly, so I know all too well how good I'm not.

I think I am a very good songwriter, unfortunately I am terrible at promoting it, so the world may never know.

A lot of the rest is hack work, tbh, but I find it personally satisfying often enough that I'm going to keep it up. I may have "the Great American Novel" - or at least my attempt at it - in my future still.


This is very impressive.

What motivates you to write?
Diamond Dog wrote:
nev gash wrote:What is point?


Indeed, what is point?

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Re: Writing

Postby Rayge » 25 May 2018, 13:52

BOLLY BEE wrote:To be honest, I'd only bother doing it if it benefited me financially. I'd want it published and out there in bookshops.

No guarantee that that will benefit you financially.

When I was a youth, long ago, I wanted to be a writer, but didn't have anything I wanted to write about, but after my dad died I found something. I started a diary/notebook in 1969 that I kept going for 15 years and completed a fantasy (hesitate to call it a novel) 1971-75 that got me an agent and some very encouraging feedback from publishers but no-one bit. At the time I was working full-time, and used my access to photocopiers and decent typewriters to put together various letters, and other 'works' for want of a better word, before quitting work in 1979 to, ahem, 'be a writer', keeping myself going by odd jobs, agency work as a typist, nightwatchman or cleaner, as well as writing articles for mags such as Marketing week and Mediaworld (my experience in the real world was in marketing and adveritsing, so that's what I did. It helped that university pals had high-up roles in both mags).

In 1982, inspired, if that's the word, by punk, I got a loan from my mother and self-published 1,000 copies of that first book, Mbawe*. I got a couple of highly complimentary reviews (NME & City Limits), but proved to be utterly useless as a salesman and hustler and sold fewer than 200 of them. It wasn't a total failure though, in that one copy found its way into the hands of a friend of Chip, who worked as an editor in the part-work business, and she made a tremendous leap of imagination and recommended me as a copy-writer on The Country Companion, an introduction that got parlayed into a near-30-year 'career', writing, re-writing, copy editing and so on (I could also put together layouts if pushed). In the meantime, I started three other fantasy novels between 1976 and 1996, and substantial chunks of them still exist, although unpublished, but the fact that I was writing for money kind of sucked most of the enjoyment I had previously taken in 'creative writing' – although I did find there was some scope for exercising my skills in narrative writing and drama, especially in, say, Murder Casebook, where I got 15 or more 12,000 word commissions.

I once worked out that I had far more than a million words in print, but none, apart from the 60,000 or so of Mbawe, with my name on them. So it goes. This figure includes four books that I 'edited' – i.e. completely rewrote because the commissioned author wrote a load of rubbish - on wine tours of france, direct football tactics, Nostradamus and the history of motor sport, as well as the hundreds of one or two thousand word articles on a wild array of subjects, almost all non-fiction, for partworks on crime, health, gemstones, time, the countryside, antiques (especially furniture), social history, walks and walking, among about a couple of dozen others, as well as press releases for a PR company and lots of others I've just forgotten (wrote the back of some collectors cards for PG Tips for instance). The only recognition I got for these was that the people who commissioned them continued to give me work. I was pretty good at it, especially at rewriting junk or poorly translated copy: I could write in a variety of styles to suit the audience, got things on in time, usually required very little editing, occasionally managed to amuse myself and editors by slipping extended metaphors or other writerly tropes into articles about ancient history or whatever. (As an aside, the enormous variety of research I did as both a writer and an editor, allied to a flypaper memory, also meant I got to be a whizz at quizzes.)

I continued this well into this century, although the market for partworks was crumbling, and ceased to be in any way lucrative: when I started in 1985, the going rate was £120 per 1,000 words, and when I packed in after Chip was diagnosed in 2010, it was £80 per 1,000. Chip published her six books between 2001 and 2010, and I did minor help (no writing) on those, major help on one, her non-fiction book on Soho, Up West, and was also commissioned to write a fantasy trilogy for children for a company that specialized in setting up series with a fictional author and getting hacks to write them according to a roughed-out concept and story-line. I finished the first one, called Deleted, but they didn't manage to get a taker for the series, so that was cancelled – although I did get paid a few grand for it. It's languishing somewhere, but there's no longer much of a market for a futuristic novel set in 2015 :roll: and I don't actually own the copyright.

Every now and then I think I might try to finish the third fantasy I began, The Immaculate Conception, which is a sort of follow-up to Mbawe, featuring the only character to emerge from that alive, or the fourth, TWOS, which is a rewrite of Wind in the Willows set among a nest of druggies in Brighton, and publish them online, but realistically that isn't going to happen. I still think of myself as a writer and photographer, though anything I do write of any length ends up here or on blogs that mostly concentrate on photographs.

(I also wrote a few poems, but won't be posting any of those anywhere)

That's about 1,000 words - £60 guineas please (mates' rates)

*still got a few if anyone wants one
In timeless moments we live forever

You can't play a tune on an absolute

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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will

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Toby
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Re: Writing

Postby Toby » 25 May 2018, 13:54

One of my future projects is a magazine devoted to boardgaming. The changes in technology have allowed small magazines, I guess a bit like the old fanzines in style and size, to make a bit of a comeback. You can produce these things quite cheaply now and people are generally prepared to pay £10 or so for them.

There's no reason why there couldn't be something like this for BCB. Whilst there are many tangible things about BCB, the fact that it is ALL online makes me think that some physical artefacts would be useful to have (that aren't bloody JU CDs).

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Re: Writing

Postby Belle Lettre » 25 May 2018, 15:57

Oh please do the Brighton one, Ray!
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Re: Writing

Postby gash on ignore » 25 May 2018, 16:05

Yes Rayge do it.

And if you fancy typesetting it in a legible size, well, fucking do that too ;)
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dog wrote:I could of course be talking bollocks... let's see what any musicians have to say