Former President Donald J. Trump

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 09 Feb 2018, 12:23

Hey Jimbo,

This seems like some pretty detailed investigative work (as opposed to your usual fare). Any thoughts about “computational propaganda” and twitter accounts like @KARYN19138585?:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politi ... emo-216935
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Feb 2018, 13:09

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Hey Jimbo,

This seems like some pretty detailed investigative work (as opposed to your usual fare). Any thoughts about “computational propaganda” and twitter accounts like @KARYN19138585?:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politi ... emo-216935


But this back and forth masks the real point. Whether it is Republican or Russian or “Macedonian teenagers”—it doesn't really matter. It is computational propaganda—meaning artificially amplified and targeted for a specific purpose...


That let's Russia off the hook for this hack.

It means we are living in the future where thanks to the internet we are capable of a making an artificially widespread blast of information or disinformation. If, you think the extra-large number of Tweets influenced Tump to release the memo I'd say you are probably wrong. Trump does what Trump wants. It also mean, thanks to this study, going forward no one will take Tweet blasts like this seriously. Not that politicians take large number of protesters seriously anyway. The largest anti-war protest ever took place just before Shock And Awe. How ineffectual was the Occupy protest? In spite of the numbers and media coverage, not very.

What was your point in sending me this link? Deebank already sent it to me and I responded earlier. I didn't need no stinkin' Tweet. From Nunes' own hype I was intrigued to see what was in the memo and hoped for its release. I also see how the Republicans are using partisan legal trickery to make their case. I also think the Steele Memo is probably true. Even Steele, from what I understand, only speculates that Putin was involved. I also speculate that the Russians - mafia or FSB - set up Dumb Donald when he came to Russia with flattery, pretty women and enticing business deals. Donald, the rich, famous and stupid American, took the bait and they got him on video somewhere. This was way before his Presidential bid so they had to have dug up Nostrodamus, Nosferatu and Svengali to predict he was going to run, let alone win the election.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 09 Feb 2018, 14:38

Jimbo wrote:I also speculate that the Russians - mafia or FSB - set up Dumb Donald when he came to Russia with flattery, pretty women and enticing business deals. Donald, the rich, famous and stupid American, took the bait and they got him on video somewhere.

Okay, you're halfway there! :)

Might this explain why he hasn't signed the Russia sanctions bill (that Congress virtually universally approved) into law, or do you think it has more to do with Trump's noble, upstanding hope for international unity?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Feb 2018, 14:57

Snarfyguy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:I also speculate that the Russians - mafia or FSB - set up Dumb Donald when he came to Russia with flattery, pretty women and enticing business deals. Donald, the rich, famous and stupid American, took the bait and they got him on video somewhere.

Okay, you're halfway there! :)

Might this explain why he hasn't signed the Russia sanctions bill (that Congress virtually universally approved) into law, or do you think it has more to do with Trump's noble, upstanding hope for international unity?


What I had written was based upon what I had read about Steele's integrity and Trump's stupidity but it is still pure speculation on my part, as is your assumption that Trump didn't sign the sanctions bill because he is being blackmailed. It is Trumps right to not sign something so whatever you may think his motive was he was doing nothing illegal not signing the bill.

And Trump may not have signed the sanction bill but his administration did sanction Russian media sites RT and Sputnik and marked them as foreign agents. Not only that

At the end of January, the U.S. Treasury Department released the names of 210 alleged Kremlin insiders, including government ministers, who were being included on a list for possible sanctions, though it was also announced that no sanctions would be put in place pending further ongoing review of the behavior of those individuals under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act.

The so-called “Kremlin List” was clearly designed to put pressure on the inner circle of the Russian government as many of those named have major business ties with the United States and Western Europe that could be severely damaged through sanctions. The intention may have been to encourage those individuals to lessen their support for President Vladimir Putin in the upcoming Russian national elections on March 18.

The Kremlin List has significantly impacted internal Russian politics ahead of a major election and therefore could be seen as the U.S.’s own attempt at election-meddling. It comes on top of a British government claim that Moscow intends to rip British “infrastructure apart, actually cause thousands and thousands and thousands of deaths,” and create “total chaos within the country,” as well as a U.S. Senate report that alleges a two decade-long assault by Putin “on democratic institutions, universal values, and the rule of law across Europe and in his own country.”
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/02/09/r ... unes-memo/

Maybe weaker than the sanctions but still ballsy for a guy about to be exposed as a freak.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 09 Feb 2018, 15:53

Jimbo wrote: It is Trumps right to not sign something so whatever you may think his motive was he was doing nothing illegal not signing the bill.

I never implied there was anything illegal about him not signing the bill. (Oddly, I don't recall hearing that he vetoed it either, even though my understanding is he only had 10 days to do so. I guess the idea is that Congress can't override his veto if the thing just sits on his desk forever? That doesn't seem right.)

Jimbo wrote:
The Kremlin List has significantly impacted internal Russian politics ahead of a major election and therefore could be seen as the U.S.’s own attempt at election-meddling.

Because Russia now has free and fair elections, LOL!

(The Economist classified it as an "authoritarian" State in 2016. https://www.yabiladi.com/img/content/EI ... x-2015.pdf)
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 09 Feb 2018, 16:19

Jimbo wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Hey Jimbo,

This seems like some pretty detailed investigative work (as opposed to your usual fare). Any thoughts about “computational propaganda” and twitter accounts like @KARYN19138585?:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politi ... emo-216935


But this back and forth masks the real point. Whether it is Republican or Russian or “Macedonian teenagers”—it doesn't really matter. It is computational propaganda—meaning artificially amplified and targeted for a specific purpose...


That let's Russia off the hook for this hack.


No it doesn’t. It simply acknowledges the fog being created in order to create plausible deniability. The point is: This is why we need investigation.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 09 Feb 2018, 16:20

Jimbo’s making me want WWIII with Russia.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Feb 2018, 16:25

Snarfyguy wrote:
Jimbo wrote: It is Trumps right to not sign something so whatever you may think his motive was he was doing nothing illegal not signing the bill.

I never implied there was anything illegal about him not signing the bill. (Oddly, I don't recall hearing that he vetoed it either, even though my understanding is he only had 10 days to do so. I guess the idea is that Congress can't override his veto if the thing just sits on his desk forever? That doesn't seem right.)

Jimbo wrote:
The Kremlin List has significantly impacted internal Russian politics ahead of a major election and therefore could be seen as the U.S.’s own attempt at election-meddling.

Because Russia now has free and fair elections, LOL!

(The Economist classified it as an "authoritarian" State in 2016. https://www.yabiladi.com/img/content/EI ... x-2015.pdf)


Talk about me changing the subject.

Yeah, so? Is that any reason the US needs to meddle into Russia's elections, however they are run?

Is the Russian government so bad? It just struck me that "authoritarian" does not mean repressive - so that's not so horrible.

Is Russia a real democracy? It depends who you ask.

https://www.quora.com/Is-Russia-a-real-democracy-Why
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Feb 2018, 16:30

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
That let's Russia off the hook for this hack.


No it doesn’t. It simply acknowledges the fog being created in order to create plausible deniability. The point is: This is why we need investigation.


:roll: Reeeeeeeching ….

By all means let the investigation go on … unless Trump decides to fire Meuller, which - as you should appreciate as a by the book kind of guy - is his right to do as President.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 09 Feb 2018, 16:38

It’s not a reach.

The article isn’t equivocal about Russia being behind it. That paragraph is simply saying - even if terribly stupid people insist on debating that point - it still deserves our attention.

Much of your defense a few months ago was, “it was just a few Facebook ads and a few fake Twitter accounts.” Do you remember when the late-lamented Robert Parry used you as a puppet and made you say those words?

Well now you’ve got someone who did the work to show you how not accounts can amplify a meme.

What would Robert Parry say?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Snarfyguy » 09 Feb 2018, 16:39

Jimbo wrote:Talk about me changing the subject.

I was quoting you! YOU brought up Russian elections. :roll:
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 09 Feb 2018, 16:55

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:It’s not a reach.

The article isn’t equivocal about Russia being behind it. That paragraph is simply saying - even if terribly stupid people insist on debating that point - it still deserves our attention.

Much of your defense a few months ago was, “it was just a few Facebook ads and a few fake Twitter accounts.” Do you remember when the late-lamented Robert Parry used you as a puppet and made you say those words?

Well now you’ve got someone who did the work to show you how not accounts can amplify a meme.

What would Robert Parry say?


But your article says they don't know who sent the Tweets. It's your fevered imagination which fingers Russia. The hype minus the Tweets was tremendous. The enthusiasm for their release was very high. I was curious about them so I have seen and heard from many internet quarters the loud call for their release. No Tweets needed. That an enthusiast with computer savvy did it is more likely than the Russians. Besides, after all the exposing of Russian hacking - if true - might Putin not hide his tracks better this time?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 09 Feb 2018, 19:06

@KARYN19138585—an account that has the 8-digit fingerprint associated with some Russian bot accounts
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby bobzilla77 » 09 Feb 2018, 20:51

Jimbo is an employee of Vladimir Putin.
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 10 Feb 2018, 01:50

“Remember I have said good things about benevolent despots before.” - Jimbo

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 10 Feb 2018, 02:34

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Fucking hell...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... n_20180207


There is no evidence that any of the registration rolls were altered in any fashion, according to U.S. officials.


Catch a grip, son. Even if ... I still contend that we do miles more fuckery ourselves than any foreign snoops may do ... or have done.

The Election Was Stolen – Here’s How… http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/

Starting in 2013 – just as the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act – a coterie of Trump operatives, under the direction of Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State, created a system to purge 1.1 million Americans of color from the voter rolls of GOP–controlled states.


Had the Russians done this then I'd be with you, Davey, but is the piddly shit they (may) have done worth all the attention, all the hair pulling, all the international ill will it's generated? I think not. If Hillary had won she'd have just told the Russians to "Cut it out," and that would be the end of their shenanigans.

And backing up the article you posted - but not ... It seems, according to Palast again, Ohio officials turned off the hacking protection of the voting machines.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 10 Feb 2018, 03:21

Ok...check me on this. This is ACTUALLY your argument?

You are saying:

- We’ve done worse, so “oh well.”

And

- Republicans purge people from voter rolls so “oh well.”

Basically, you are fine with anything a foreign government does to our democracy because you think we’re unworthy of democracy.

Is that your position in a nutshell?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 10 Feb 2018, 03:26

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
Basically, you are fine with anything a foreign government does to our democracy because you think we’re unworthy of democracy.


Not fine but not freaking out neither. Or I'm about as fine with it as you are with domestic fuckery. Spying is part of the game countries play. Having our own fuck with the election, that's treasonous, don't you think?
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 10 Feb 2018, 03:30

I DO think. Yes.

But if they do it under cover of the law, than the law itself is the problem.

A foreign government exerting influence on our elections is a MUCH bigger problem, for many reasons.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Jimbo » 10 Feb 2018, 03:36

Davey the Fat Boy wrote: A foreign government exerting influence on our elections...


Ooh. They exerted influence. :roll:
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