David Bowie vs Neil Young

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David Bowie vs Neil Young

David Bowie
45
55%
Neil Young
37
45%
 
Total votes: 82

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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 12 Nov 2017, 20:16

I guess that settles it.
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The Modernist
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby The Modernist » 12 Nov 2017, 20:32

The claim that 'Life on Mars' is only known to fans is clearly untrue. Can't believe you agreed with that John!

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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby naughty boy » 12 Nov 2017, 20:40

THE AVERAGE PERSON IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS UNLIKELY TO BE FAMILIAR WITH ‘LIFE ON MARS’ BY DAVID BOWIE
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 12 Nov 2017, 20:47

I didn’t say that it was “only” known to fans. But it’s not a standard either. Everybody knows Tears of a Clown. Not everyone knows Life On Mars...or After the Gold Rush...or Thunder Road...or Gimme Shelter.
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby Minnie the Minx » 12 Nov 2017, 20:56

What about this and that and the other?
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby clive gash » 12 Nov 2017, 21:18

Neil Young’s artistry is relatable, Bowie’s wasn’t.
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby Robert » 12 Nov 2017, 22:28

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Making Levi’s or making haute couture and never the twain shall meet.

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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby Diamond Dog » 13 Nov 2017, 11:22

kewl klive wrote:Neil Young’s artistry is relatable, Bowie’s wasn’t.


What a completely vacuous nonsensical and bullshit statement that is. Total fucking garbage. Means absolutely fucking nothing.
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby fange » 13 Nov 2017, 12:38

Matt Harringay wrote:
fange wrote:
The Modernist wrote:I think I'd struggle to name 10 NY songs that have really impacted upon the wider public consciousness.

I think I can come up with 10 pretty easily.

'Mr. Soul'
'Cinnamon Girl'
'Heart of Gold'
'Ohio'
'The Needle and the Damage Done'
'Old Man'
'Like A Hurricane'
'Hey Hey, My My (Into the Black)'
'Harvest Moon'
'Over and Over'
'Rockin' in the Free World'

I'd say all of these have pretty much become rock standards, beloved all over the world.


I wouldn't.

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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby naughty boy » 14 Nov 2017, 14:07

I’ve been thinking about this and I’ve decided that Bowie is the better songwriter.

Just listen to ‘Changes’ if you want proof. If that doesn’t work, I can give you half a dozen more.
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby fange » 14 Nov 2017, 14:33

I would certainly say he was more adaptable as a songwriter, able to write great songs in a variety of styles; rock, folky, soul and funk, pop, krautrocky, even jazzy. NY was very good at the rock and folk/country stuff, but little beyond that.
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby naughty boy » 14 Nov 2017, 14:47

I just think DB wrote a greater number of classic melodies. Which is a skill normally associated with ‘traditional’ artists, is it not? so the idea seems counterintuitive, maybe. But he did.
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 14 Nov 2017, 14:54

I think Bowie was a far better record maker. I’ll agree that his melodies are often really strong (and often undervalued), but so are Young’s. Ultimately I think Neil is better as a pure songwriter. His songs are durable. Anyone can sing them and they retain their power. Meanwhile Bowie’s songs are often vehicles for his performances and whatever his production inspiration of the moment was. They can hide behind their abstraction and their projected cool sometimes in a way that Young’s never do. Meanwhile Neil’s songs tend to employ the “shortest distance to the emotional core” method.
Last edited by Davey the Fat Boy on 14 Nov 2017, 15:03, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby fange » 14 Nov 2017, 14:58

I agree largely with that, Davey.
It's hard for me to judge or compare them just on the point of how many classic melodies they wrote; i never really just think in those terms. For me it's more about the songs as a whole, and maybe even more so about each song as a record. Who was able to capture something special musically better or more often.

For me, that's been Bowie.
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 14 Nov 2017, 15:02

Well I voted for Bowie too, and to the extent that one prizes the singularity of a record (as opposed to the durability of the song at the core of a record) - it makes complete sense to prefer Bowie.
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby fange » 14 Nov 2017, 15:05

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:They can hide behind their abstraction and their projected cool sometimes in a way that Young’s never do. Meanwhile Neil’s songs tend to employ the “shortest distance to the emotional core” method.

This is an interesting couple of points, and ones i kind of agree with ... up to a point. But i'm tired now, and it's my bedtime, so i'll come back sometime tomorrow :)
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby Goat Boy » 14 Nov 2017, 15:08

Dr. E. PLATE wrote:I just think DB wrote a greater number of classic melodies. Which is a skill normally associated with ‘traditional’ artists, is it not? so the idea seems counterintuitive, maybe. But he did.


Bowie is the superior songwriter but what Davey values in songwriting is better demonstrated by Young.

He has a greater grasp of melody and chords. Young is far more rooted, obviously, in traditional folk and rock.

Something like Life On Mars is not something that Young could ever fashion but I Bowie could come up with a heart of Gold.
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby The Modernist » 14 Nov 2017, 15:22

Goat Boy wrote:
Something like Life On Mars is not something that Young could ever fashion but I Bowie could come up with a heart of Gold.


I think there are examples of Bowie writing that more straightforward kind of melody, particularly on Hunky Dory (something like Kooks)

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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby naughty boy » 14 Nov 2017, 15:32

The Modernist wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:
Something like Life On Mars is not something that Young could ever fashion but I Bowie could come up with a heart of Gold.


I think there are examples of Bowie writing that more straightforward kind of melody, particularly on Hunky Dory (something like Kooks)


Yeah.

Is there such a thing as 'pure' melody? something that sounds pretty when sung but can't be put into any kind of musical subcategory?

Anyway I wouldn't say 'Life On Mars' has any kind of melody, really. You can't whistle the bastard!
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Re: David Bowie vs Neil Young

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 14 Nov 2017, 15:40

The Modernist wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:
Something like Life On Mars is not something that Young could ever fashion but I Bowie could come up with a heart of Gold.


I think there are examples of Bowie writing that more straightforward kind of melody, particularly on Hunky Dory (something like Kooks)


Oh...for sure. In fact I’d argue that Life on Mars is an outlier for Bowie (being more about sophisticated chord changes than anything else). Over the course of his career his chord changes and melodic ideas were closer to Neil Young than Brian Wilson. He was certainly more sophisticated than Young overall, but not in a way that made him musically obscure most of the time (sometimes he did cross that line).

But again...as a whole songwriter (lyrics especially, but also his approach to song structure) he could be opaque in a way that rendered his songs a bit less universal absent his performances of them.

It’s easy to overstate this kind of critique - as if I’m saying that none of his songs hold up on their own. That’s as untrue as concluding that Young didn’t make any great-sounding records. But relative to each other, I think that what I’m saying about the contrasts between these two top-shelf artists holds basically true.
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