BCB's Top 100 Albums of the 21st Century

[naughty boy]

You don't get this kind of denial when people talk about American movies. There's a general acceptance that the original Golden Age (40s - Clark Gable, Joan Crawford) and the rise of the auteur in the New Hollywood of the 70s represent its two peaks, even though many great films have been made since.

[Darkness_Fish]

You don't get this kind of denial when people talk about American movies. There's a general acceptance that the original Golden Age (40s - Clark Gable, Joan Crawford) and the rise of the auteur in the New Hollywood of the 70s represent its two peaks, even though many great films have been made since.

To be honest, I would only agree with that up to a certain point. For one, how many people genuinely bother that much with films from the original golden age? Is it a golden age in the view of the majority of the public, in terms of their viewing habits?

Personally, I see the turning point for American cinema being the increased reliance on special effects, particularly via the introduction of CGI. Previously films required directors to use skill to depict things they could not possibly show directly visually. Now, anything is game, the skill is delegated to a graphic designer, and it looks shit.

[naughty boy]

You don't get this kind of denial when people talk about American movies. There's a general acceptance that the original Golden Age (40s - Clark Gable, Joan Crawford) and the rise of the auteur in the New Hollywood of the 70s represent its two peaks, even though many great films have been made since.

To be honest, I would only agree with that up to a certain point. For one, how many people genuinely bother that much with films from the original golden age? Is it a golden age in the view of the majority of the public, in terms of their viewing habits?

I take your point, not many young people today bother with the likes of It Happened One Night. But there isn't a great deal of dissent in the view that it WAS a golden age.

Oh, I don't know. I'm bored of this. We keep going over the same arguments. If people think that we're still getting Forever Changes or Marquee Moon then they're nuts.

[Goat Boy]

You don't get this kind of denial when people talk about American movies. There's a general acceptance that the original Golden Age (40s - Clark Gable, Joan Crawford) and the rise of the auteur in the New Hollywood of the 70s represent its two peaks, even though many great films have been made since.

To be honest, I would only agree with that up to a certain point. For one, how many people genuinely bother that much with films from the original golden age? Is it a golden age in the view of the majority of the public, in terms of their viewing habits?

Personally, I see the turning point for American cinema being the increased reliance on special effects, particularly via the introduction of CGI. Previously films required directors to use skill to depict things they could not possibly show directly visually. Now, anything is game, the skill is delegated to a graphic designer, and it looks shit.

The changes from the 70s to the 80s were pronounced and systematic. Unrecoverable really. For a brief period the doors opened up in a way that had never happened before and certainly never will happen again.

Crucially the audience had changed too. A generation that grew up and experienced the Vietnam war and Nixon and JFK etc was more cynical and open to nuance than the generation that appeared in the 80s under Regan and the movies naturally reflected this.

[The Modernist]

You don't get the same kind of angst over this in the classical music world either. A classical musician will accept that they're playing a repertoire of roughly 100 years (from 1780-1880 say) and the challenge for them will be trying to play it as well as possible, they won't worry about trying to reinvent it because they've got too much reverence for it. Of course this can bring its own problems of conservatism and stultification.

[Moleskin]

Remember, you can send shorter lists (eg 10 or 20 albums) if you prefer, with the points total adjusted accordingly (as long as the average is 5 points per album).

So the highest-rated choice in a list of ten can only get 41 points, right? And the highest-rated in a list of 30 can get much more?

This seems GROSSLY UNFAIR

The points don't make a difference in the end as we don't use them to weight the voting in any way. I burbled on about this at great length when I did the 60s cup (iirc).

[Count Machuki]

You don't get the same kind of angst over this in the classical music world either. A classical musician will accept that they're playing a repertoire of roughly 100 years (from 1780-1880 say) and the challenge for them will be trying to play it as well as possible, they won't worry about trying to reinvent it because they've got too much reverence for it. Of course this can bring its own problems of conservatism and stultification.

This is untrue. Loads of classical musicians would love to be playing new stuff all the time - they're unbelievably supportive of new composers. The thing is that audiences aren't. If you want to program something vaguely new you have to balance it with old canon stuff to even get an audience to attend. Without an audience you can't put on a show. So there's the bind.

[The Modernist]

You don't get the same kind of angst over this in the classical music world either. A classical musician will accept that they're playing a repertoire of roughly 100 years (from 1780-1880 say) and the challenge for them will be trying to play it as well as possible, they won't worry about trying to reinvent it because they've got too much reverence for it. Of course this can bring its own problems of conservatism and stultification.

This is untrue. Loads of classical musicians would love to be playing new stuff all the time - they're unbelievably supportive of new composers. The thing is that audiences aren't. If you want to program something vaguely new you have to balance it with old canon stuff to even get an audience to attend. Without an audience you can't put on a show. So there's the bind.

Sure, but what I meant was if you are trained as a classical musician you have no problems with playing music that is 250 years old. I would think many see it as a privilege.

[Count Machuki]

Sure. I think they probably see a continuum. Yeah, there's no problem with mastering the old stuff but audiences keep them from pushing things forward.

We're probably roughly talking about the same thing here...

[never/ever]

But when you have artists like Max Richter putting their spin on the old crusty stuff like Four Seasons...isn't that innovation?

[The Modernist]

But when you have artists like Max Richter putting their spin on the old crusty stuff like Four Seasons...isn't that innovation?

It depends on how you measure innovation.
You could use the Richter scale.

[copehead]

Some predictions for the top ten then....

Kid A

Never liked it

Rated R

Would probably have voted for it but forgot about it and couldn't be bothered to go back and change the submitted list

The Trial of Van Occupanther

Never heard it

Is This It

Listened to it daily for 6 months and never since, ultimately annoying and unsatisfying

[Goat Boy]

I've never liked Kid A either, bar a few tunes. I think it's wildly overrated. I did vote for In Rainbows though.

Midlake - Trials of Van Occupanther.

[algroth]

I've never liked Kid A either, bar a few tunes. I think it's wildly overrated. I did vote for In Rainbows though.

Same.

My predictions for the top 10:

Funeral
Is This It
In Rainbows
Rated R
My Dark Twisted Fantasy
Back to Black
Stories From the City, Stories From the Sea
American IV: The Man Comes Around
Blackstar
To Pimp a Butterfly

Some predictable shit like that. Maybe Since I Left You somewhere in there too.

[Goat Boy]

No to Kanye and Cash.

Blackstar will do well because it's recent.

The other ones look like decent shouts to me.

I left out Funeral actually. The rest of their work has left a bad taste in my mouth but that is a good album

[Osgood]

I've never liked Kid A either, bar a few tunes. I think it's wildly overrated. I did vote for In Rainbows though.

Same.

My predictions for the top 10:

Funeral
Is This It
In Rainbows
Rated R
My Dark Twisted Fantasy
Back to Black
Stories From the City, Stories From the Sea
American IV: The Man Comes Around
Blackstar
To Pimp a Butterfly

Some predictable shit like that. Maybe Since I Left You somewhere in there too.

5 1/2 of those in my list (predictable old fart). The half one is Cash, I voted for American III.

[Oscar]

But when you have artists like Max Richter putting their spin on the old crusty stuff like Four Seasons...isn't that innovation?

I hope so, it's in my top 10.

[Oscar]

I've never liked Kid A either, bar a few tunes. I think it's wildly overrated. I did vote for In Rainbows though.

Same.

My predictions for the top 10:

Funeral
Is This It
In Rainbows
Rated R
My Dark Twisted Fantasy
Back to Black
Stories From the City, Stories From the Sea
American IV: The Man Comes Around
Blackstar
To Pimp a Butterfly

Some predictable shit like that. Maybe Since I Left You somewhere in there too.

I think with most of these titles you could change "predictable" for "unavoidable".

[Hightea]

I've never liked Kid A either, bar a few tunes. I think it's wildly overrated. I did vote for In Rainbows though.

Same.

My predictions for the top 10:

Funeral
Is This It
In Rainbows
Rated R
My Dark Twisted Fantasy
Back to Black
Stories From the City, Stories From the Sea
American IV: The Man Comes Around
Blackstar
To Pimp a Butterfly

Some predictable shit like that. Maybe Since I Left You somewhere in there too.

I got 4 of those on my list. I'm sure you can all figure out which ones. Not In Rainbows only because I voted Kid A over it. Without Kid A I don't think In Rainbows happens.

I left out Funeral actually. The rest of their work has left a bad taste in my mouth but that is a good album

While I agree they never got back to being as great as Funeral (although Suburbs is ace too) I feel their live show makes up for it. They are still relevant as a live band.

[algroth]

I've never liked Kid A either, bar a few tunes. I think it's wildly overrated. I did vote for In Rainbows though.

Same.

My predictions for the top 10:

Funeral
Is This It
In Rainbows
Rated R
My Dark Twisted Fantasy
Back to Black
Stories From the City, Stories From the Sea
American IV: The Man Comes Around
Blackstar
To Pimp a Butterfly

Some predictable shit like that. Maybe Since I Left You somewhere in there too.

5 1/2 of those in my list (predictable old fart). The half one is Cash, I voted for American III.

Hey, I included a couple from the list myself. There are a few good albums there, just, I always root for surprises myself.