Former President Donald J. Trump

[sloopjohnc]

Has anyone here ever sided with Jimbo on any of this 'conspiracy theory' stuff? Genuine question.

No.

My main critique would be is his suspicion of mainstream news sources vs. alternate news sources. I do think mainstream news can be part of the government's propaganda machine, but I think Jimbo is too trusting of whose funding alternative news sources and the nature of generating income from a website like that.

The Washington Post, NY Times, Politico, Vox, Real Clear Politics, etc., are straightforward in what is advertising and what isn't. Alt news sites have less advertising so where does their income come from? If you're doing a news site full-time and paying contributors, you have to be getting an income from somewhere. Without me seeing your advertising, I wonder if you're beholden to someone. There's more chance to influence an influencer from these kind of site than a mainstream news site. That's what I think Jimbo fails to recognize.

[sloopjohnc]

I heard an interesting thing about Kushner yesterday. In all the campaign shenanigans including Russia, it seems all Kushner seems to care about is how it affects him, even if it affect's his wife's family. He's more concerned with the Kushner Co's real estate concerns.

Then it wasn't very smart of him to get involved with the campaign and the administration. I suppose you can carry on in the real estate business no matter how checkered your past is, but he could be in pretty serious legal jeopardy right now.

Well, I guess Kushner had to amend his security clearance request twice, from what I understand, when the press found out about some of his meetings.

I don't understand why Trump Jr. went rogue and released emails. Just because the NY Times said they had them? Lawyer up, get your stories straight, and call their bluff.

[sloopjohnc]

I love it when Trump Jr. says the meeting didn't provide anything of value like it was intimated as if that was the point.

That tells me that they are missing the point.

[BARON CORNY DOG]

I don't understand why Trump Jr. went rogue and released emails. Just because the NY Times said they had them? Lawyer up, get your stories straight, and call their bluff.

Because he honestly didn't think it was a big deal. There was a lot of reporting that members of the Administration crafted his initial, minimal statement, and that he was frustrated and wanted to own it and get out ahead of it. But he had no idea what a major, major problem this was, because he's not very bright. Now they've totally undermined themselves, and we know that the Trump campaign was happy to take dirt from whomever, even if it came from a foreign government. You might even say they loved it.

[Count Machuki]

I love it when Trump Jr. says the meeting didn't provide anything of value like it was intimated as if that was the point.

That tells me that they are missing the point.

"Well, we were gonna rob the shop but the cash register was empty so we left"
"NOT GUILTY you're free to go"

[BARON CORNY DOG]

There is simply nothing normal about a campaign’s meeting with a foreign lawyer who purports to be acting on behalf of an adversary foreign power seeking to aid the campaign against a domestic opponent.

How unusual is it? On September 14, 2000, former congressman Tom Downey, a close advisor to Democratic presidential candidate Al Gore, received an anonymous package in the mail containing a videotape of George W. Bush practicing for the upcoming presidential debates and more than 120 pages of planned debate strategies. Downey and his lawyer contacted the FBI and handed the cache over that very day, and Gore campaign officials then immediately reached out to the Associated Press to provide a timeline of the events. The Gore campaign had no hint of who had sent the materials—nothing indicated the involvement of a foreign power; indeed, the package was eventually traced to a low-level employee at a media firm. But the materials were on their face likely provided to the Gore campaign as part of an attempt to damage Gore’s opponent, and that was enough to prompt a call to authorities.

https://lawfareblog.com/wall-begins-cru ... -collusion

[Count Machuki]

I don't understand why Trump Jr. went rogue and released emails. Just because the NY Times said they had them? Lawyer up, get your stories straight, and call their bluff.

Because he honestly didn't think it was a big deal. There was a lot of reporting that members of the Administration crafted his initial, minimal statement, and that he was frustrated and wanted to own it and get out ahead of it. But he had no idea what a major, major problem this was, because he's not very bright. Now they've totally undermined themselves, and we know that the Trump campaign was happy to take dirt from whomever, even if it came from a foreign government. You might even say they loved it.

Highlights for Children breaks down some potential charges here.

[Sneelock]

I think, if the story had broke in the failing New York Times then Dear Old Dad would have had a shit-attack. I really think they take this "Twitter connects us directly to Real America" crap seriously. They think by telling Twitter & Sean Hannity it's no big deal... OUILA, it's no big deal. That's their story & boy, are they sticking to it.

[Davey the Fat Boy]

Do you think HRC went into this election with a firm Dudley Dooright handshake believing may the best candidate win?

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist talking about Hilary.

Uhm, I'll say this, had Chelsea Clinton gone off to meet with Russians to obtain damaging info about Trump prior to the election, I believe Hilary would receive significant criticism for that action.

Not Chealsea herself but the Dems sent Steele into Russia to do exactly the same thing.

Actually Jeb Bush sent Steele. The Dems just took over the payments.

[Davey the Fat Boy]

Speaking of which, you missed answering a question I threw out earlier and that was if you trust these intelligence agencies, knowing of course their record of extra-govermental activities like overthrowing governments, spying on US citizens, spying on the world, rigging other countries' elections, and on and on with multifold nefarious activities. Because, surely they are suspect IMO, and they could be excused to having an an agenda in this case, knowing how Trump spoke so poorly of them how Trump praised Putin and that Russia had been in their sights for a long time. So, should not a report from the FOUR intelligence agencies be swallowed with a grain of salt?

No. It shouldn't. It needs to be taken seriously. Just as we'd take a report from our intelligence agencies about a possible terror threat seriously.

By their very nature, our intelligence institutions work behind a veil of secrecy. That makes it easy for people like you to let your mind run rampant with conspiracy theories. So much so that you actually allow yourself to believe in the honesty of foreign governments (do you "trust" the FSB/KGB, Jimbo?) over them, as well as any dummy with a blog recognizing the cottage industry of playing into the fever dreams of people like you.

So no...I don't "trust" our intelligence agencies per se. But I take them seriously - and I recognize the role they play in our national security. When they take the unprecedented step of issuing a joint assessment saying that a foreign government ran a campaign to influence our elections - I take that seriously.

Meanwhile neither you, nor Robert Parry (or Kristina Van Heuvel, or the rest of the strange pro-Russia liberals yammering about this, these days) has made any kind of real case for why we all ought to shrug this off. You hyperbolize that even taking the matter seriously is a slippery slope to WWIII. You weakly list all of the things we "should" be doing now (as if the Trump admin were willing and capable of good governance). Then when all else fails, you retreat to a story about the deep state and its dark agenda to refight the Cold War in order to benefit arms dealers or something (your fantasies always trail off here when pushed for detail).

Sorry man. Not putting on the tin foil hat with you. I may not "trust" our intelligence agencies. But I trust them more than your "sources."

So you were fine(ish) with how they went after HRC and her emails.

Fine(ish) describes it perfectly. I think it was more politically motivated than it should have been. Imagine that.

[Count Machuki]

So who is gonna flip and turn state's evidence?
Who in the Trump Crime Family is gonna sing in exchange for staying out of jail?
My money is on Jared if we're just considering the big names.

Presumably, Manafort already is.

I gather Kushner has unresolved bitterness about his father's experience with federal law enforcement, so he may be solidly anti-snitching.

Lawrence O'Donnell is beating the fuck up on Kushner right now...all but accusing him of stabbing Donald Jr. in the back.
It's a hell of a thing to watch.

[Rayge]

Has anyone here ever sided with Jimbo on any of this 'conspiracy theory' stuff? Genuine question.

Once or twice, although not with the false flag / black ops stuff. Of course it does go on, but not every fucking incident.

And much of what I do agree with – or at least accept as one way of looking at it – is basically just the normal business of politics and power.
No Illuminati, black helicopters, that sort of thing, just several bunches of arseholes vying with one another and lying about it for their own benefit and profit, either material or whatever ideology has possessed them.

I got into this stuff a bit 30-odd years ago after reading Illuminatus!*, but got out because the manipulation of 'evidence' and sheer wilful dumb-fuckery of many of the 'theorists' was annoying, plus I realized that it DIDN'T REALLY MATTER. I just accepted my powerlessness. Really, if there's nothing you can fucking do about it, there's no point. There is no truth, just warring opinions, and you don't have to pick a side. Listen to some tunes, read comics, stay in bed with the covers over your head or just go outside and wallow in the wanton beauty of the world, whatever.

That said, I think that for Jimbo, this is a form of relaxation. For all his trampling on people's sensibilities, there seem to me to be some much nastier individuals on this board. And judging by Dougie's 'arse' thread, I'm not the only one. To me, he's like an overgrown puppy bumbling around a small apartment full of precious knick-knacks rather than a rabid wolf bent on the destruction of all that is decent (sorry to talk about you as if you weren't reading this, and being so condescending, Jim)

genuine answer
Ray


* I would have enjoyed seeing Robert Anton Wilson take on Trump in print

[Goat Boy]

That’s the thing though, part of the psychology of the conspiracy theorist is that it does make them believe they can change things somehow. If enough of us just WAKE UP we can overthrow this great tyranny etc. HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE?

In life you have to come to a kind of acceptance with the world otherwise it will just gnaw away at you forever

[Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman]

That’s the thing though, part of the psychology of the conspiracy theorist is that it does make them believe they can change things somehow. If enough of us just WAKE UP we can overthrow this great tyranny etc. HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE?

In life you have to come to a kind of acceptance with the world otherwise it will just gnaw away at you forever

Words of wisdom.

[Modesty Forbids]

That’s the thing though, part of the psychology of the conspiracy theorist is that it does make them believe they can change things somehow. If enough of us just WAKE UP we can overthrow this great tyranny etc. HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE?

In life you have to come to a kind of acceptance with the world otherwise it will just gnaw away at you forever

Yeah, I agree. That's pretty much what I was saying in my third paragraph above. I've said it to Jimbo more than once.

But I don't think he experiences it as being gnawed at, he's hardly a tortured soul.
It's a hobby, like stamp-collecting, rather than a vicious and pernicious personality warp, like being a Tory.

[Tactful Cactus]

But I don't think he experiences it as being gnawed at, he's hardly a tortured soul.
It's a hobby, like stamp-collecting, rather than a vicious and pernicious personality warp, like being a Tory.

I feel bad for the guy, the opposition just validates him. He doesn't want to change anyones mind, if he wanted to change peoples opinion he wouldn't condescend so much. He wants to confirm his own beliefs by gauging how wrong people think he is. If people think he's insane then he must be getting close to some truth.

[Jimbo]

But I don't think he experiences it as being gnawed at, he's hardly a tortured soul.
It's a hobby, like stamp-collecting, rather than a vicious and pernicious personality warp, like being a Tory.

I feel bad for the guy, the opposition just validates him. He doesn't want to change anyones mind, if he wanted to change peoples opinion he wouldn't condescend so much. He wants to confirm his own beliefs by gauging how wrong people think he is. If people think he's insane then he must be getting close to some truth.

Shivers! It's as if you are crouching just inside my sphincter, my very own Jiminy Hemmeroids!

[Jimbo]

I just asked myself why I do what I do and it's because I fear for the world and I'd like to save the world. Why did Barry McGuire sing The Eve of Destruction? He warned us that if we don't check ourselves we're doomed. And If you don't think we are on that eve you are watching too much basketball, (Sloop). If, however you don't care, then enjoy your warm bad and comic books, (Ray).

This blame Russia thing is particularly scary because this ain't Reagan's Granada we're attacking. And the anti-Russia voices are only getting louder, the jokes are crueler and the military buildup is steroidal! Yes, Trump is a moron but we need to pull back on the guy and let him Tweet or whatever, but coaxing him into a war with Russia is mental!

And my perfectly good question remains unanswered: What did Russia/Putin do? Davey goes deep and says they fucked with America's essence, like they called his mother ugly. But c'mon, tell Jimbo, what tangible harm, what go-to-war worthy crime did they commit?

[Thang-y]

I've gone from not believing for a moment he'd become president, to horror, to thinking he'd have to be impeached (keeping the horror) but now .. nothing's going to shift him is it? All hope is gone

[harvey k-tel]

I just asked myself why I do what I do and it's because I fear for the world and I'd like to save the world. Why did Barry McGuire sing The Eve of Destruction? He warned us that if we don't check ourselves we're doomed.

How many records have you sold so far?