who are you going to vote for?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks

><

Tory
16
48%
Labour
12
36%
SNP
2
6%
Lib Dem
3
9%
 
Total votes: 33

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 36415
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby yomptepi » 09 May 2017, 17:16

* rubs hands *
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
northernsky
Posts: 2338
Joined: 08 Aug 2005, 10:18
Location: East of Sweden

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby northernsky » 09 May 2017, 17:40

Toby wrote:People shouldn't have to vote if they don't want to. It's like going to a shop that has nothing you want, yet you are compelled to buy something anyway.


I disagree, as it happens - but there would always have to be a "none of the above" option.

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12798
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby Geezee » 09 May 2017, 17:58

northernsky wrote:
Toby wrote:People shouldn't have to vote if they don't want to. It's like going to a shop that has nothing you want, yet you are compelled to buy something anyway.


I disagree, as it happens - but there would always have to be a "none of the above" option.


Yep, agree- voting should be as compulsory as vaccination.
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
Deebank
Resonator
Posts: 24733
Joined: 10 Oct 2003, 13:47
Location: Ina beautiful place out in the country

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby Deebank » 09 May 2017, 18:28

yomptepi wrote:* rubs hands *



I thought you liked little furry creatures Yomp.
Are butchered foxes a price worth paying for whatever it is she's offering you?
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

Paid anghofio fod dy galon yn y chwyldro

...
Posts: 8751
Joined: 04 May 2011, 02:57

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby ... » 09 May 2017, 18:30

Deebank wrote:
yomptepi wrote:* rubs hands *



I thought you liked little furry creatures Yomp.
Are butchered foxes a price worth paying for whatever it is she's offering you?


Butchered foxes today, Bambi's poor, defenceless, doe-eyed mother tomorrow.

User avatar
KeithPratt
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23901
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby KeithPratt » 09 May 2017, 19:42

Geezee wrote:
Yep, agree- voting should be as compulsory as vaccination.


Ridiculous. The whole point of "freedom" as espoused by western liberal democracies is that we should not be shackled to participating in a political system if we do not want to. If we don't vote we merely lose the chance to provide our say in the political makeup of the country.

I understand the perspective; that people died for the right to vote. I also think that making people vote and very high levels of voter participation can also produce results that people don't want. You only have to see the result of the Referendum as an example of this; an unprecedented turnout and look what happened.

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12798
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby Geezee » 09 May 2017, 20:26

Toby wrote:
Geezee wrote:
Yep, agree- voting should be as compulsory as vaccination.


Ridiculous. The whole point of "freedom" as espoused by western liberal democracies is that we should not be shackled to participating in a political system if we do not want to. If we don't vote we merely lose the chance to provide our say in the political makeup of the country.

I understand the perspective; that people died for the right to vote. I also think that making people vote and very high levels of voter participation can also produce results that people don't want. You only have to see the result of the Referendum as an example of this; an unprecedented turnout and look what happened.


Has nothing to do with the results, and there is nothing in western liberal democracies that in any way determines whether we need to be "shackled" to vote or not. There are plenty of western liberal democracies where voting is compulsory. It's like anything that is compulsory (education, taxes, social security registration etc) - it is only about the extent to which you believe you belong to a society, and what responsibilities you have as part of a society. To me, while paralleling voting and immunisation was impromptu, the more i think about it the more i think it is accurate - not only is about protecting your own interests, but it is also about protecting the interests of everyone around you from infectious diseases.
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
clive gash
wannabee enfant terrible
Posts: 17219
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 00:32
Location: down the rabbit hole

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby clive gash » 09 May 2017, 20:39

Oh super!
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dog wrote:...it quite clearly hit the target with you and your nonce...

...a multitude of innuendo and hearsay...

...I'm producing facts here...

User avatar
Samoan
Posts: 11948
Joined: 28 May 2008, 10:22
Location: The Glad Tidings Mission Hall

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby Samoan » 09 May 2017, 20:51

Geezee wrote: To me, while paralleling voting and immunisation was impromptu, the more i think about it the more i think it is accurate - not only is about protecting your own interests, but it is also about protecting the interests of everyone around you from infectious diseases.

I disagree. I don't see any correlation between epidemiology and pitching up to a voting booth and marking a ballot paper. The former has the potential to be individually life, or lifes saving, the latter doesn't amount to a hill of beans as one person's vote is statistically insignificant.
Nonsense to the aggressiveness, I've seen more aggression on the my little pony message board......I mean I was told.

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 36415
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby yomptepi » 09 May 2017, 21:16

Deebank wrote:
yomptepi wrote:* rubs hands *



I thought you liked little furry creatures Yomp.
Are butchered foxes a price worth paying for whatever it is she's offering you?


Indeed. I cannot understand the fascination with hounding animals. What an odd time to put hunting back on the table. Only about half a percent of voters would vote for the return of hunting, so why chance losing votes?

And Mrs May has very little to offer me. I dislike her education policies. I dislike her infrastructure policies, and I dislike her aggressive stance on Europe. I don't think she has a strong team around her either. Of course next to Corbyn's shambling illiterates, they look like gods...
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
The Prof
Trading coffee in Abyssinia
Posts: 46392
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:32
Location: A Metropolis of Discontent

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby The Prof » 09 May 2017, 21:38

yomptepi wrote:Indeed. I cannot understand the fascination with hounding animals. What an odd time to put hunting back on the table. Only about half a percent of voters would vote for the return of hunting, so why chance losing votes?.


It looked like a rogue journalist went off grid and asked a question that wasn't on the specially prepared list of questions to ask.

User avatar
PresMuffley
Posts: 1047
Joined: 06 Feb 2017, 12:00

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby PresMuffley » 09 May 2017, 23:45

Toby wrote:I also think that making people vote and very high levels of voter participation can also produce results that people don't want.


The same can be said for low voter turnout as well, which is why the right here constantly attempts (and often prevails) at suppressing voting rights, disenfranchising millions.

Do you think the remain campaign would have won if more people voted or less? Impossible to say perhaps - and I'm not advocating for mandatory voting - but I'll always be in favor of more people choosing to vote. Though it would certainly help if they made an attempt at properly informing themselves beforehand.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12798
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby Geezee » 10 May 2017, 10:46

Samoan wrote:
Geezee wrote: To me, while paralleling voting and immunisation was impromptu, the more i think about it the more i think it is accurate - not only is about protecting your own interests, but it is also about protecting the interests of everyone around you from infectious diseases.

I disagree. I don't see any correlation between epidemiology and pitching up to a voting booth and marking a ballot paper. The former has the potential to be individually life, or lifes saving, the latter doesn't amount to a hill of beans as one person's vote is statistically insignificant.


A vote is indeed statistically insignificant, in the same way that it is still highly unlikely that an individual who is non-immunised will have an impact. But ultimately if you are voting for a healthcare-destroying party like the Tories or Republicans, you are killing people just as surely as spreading a disease.

Yes, maybe a far-fetched parallel (although of course most country recommend immunisation but don't make it compulsory), but either way for sure it seems entirely obvious to me that voting must be compulsory.
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
KeithPratt
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23901
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby KeithPratt » 10 May 2017, 11:20

PresMuffley wrote:The same can be said for low voter turnout as well, which is why the right here constantly attempts (and often prevails) at suppressing voting rights, disenfranchising millions.

Do you think the remain campaign would have won if more people voted or less? Impossible to say perhaps - and I'm not advocating for mandatory voting - but I'll always be in favor of more people choosing to vote. Though it would certainly help if they made an attempt at properly informing themselves beforehand.


I'm not saying people can't vote. I guess in America there are significant issues with that, but here in the UK we don't have that problem.

I do think the binary aspect of the referendum made a huge difference - usually people who don't vote will go "well, there's no-one to vote for". Here, they felt like they had a choice.

Perhaps we should be taking a leaf out of Switzerland's book, where I believe they have referendums on lots of topics all the time. But then it's a small country etc etc.

User avatar
naughty boy
hounds people off the board
Posts: 20250
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby naughty boy » 10 May 2017, 12:08

Toby wrote:Perhaps we should be taking a leaf out of Switzerland's book, where I believe they have referendums on lots of topics all the time. But then it's a small country etc etc.


See, the choice between letting the people decide and letting the government decide you might think is a clear one. Except that the people have fucked up time and time again when they've been asked what they think.

Whatever you might think of politicians in general, I think on matters like European integration, devolution of power and immigration they might be more likely to make decisions that benefit the population than you think.
Matt 'interesting' Wilson wrote:So I went from looking at the "I'm a Man" riff, to showing how the rave up was popular for awhile.

User avatar
KeithPratt
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23901
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby KeithPratt » 10 May 2017, 12:14

Oh I agree with you in the main. Politicians in general understand the nuances of decisions like these far more than you or me.

It was the sheer infrequency of referendums that might have created this problem though; that with the EU referendum, the binary nature of the vote shoehorned a load of other problems into it.

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32974
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby Goat Boy » 10 May 2017, 13:43

Referendums my arse. If we let the people continually decide shit it would be Mad Max within 50 years. They are not informed enough and too emotional. Direct democracy is too flawed for that sorta thing.

We need more people to vote and they need to be better informed. We also need governments that actually represent people who didn't vote for them. Should we do away with single party governments and always have coalitions?
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:a right wing cretin like Berger....bleating about racism

User avatar
KeithPratt
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23901
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby KeithPratt » 10 May 2017, 14:43

What about if you had referendums on things like "should the NHS be opened up to allow a degree of privatisation or should it remain fully public"

I don't doubt that people mostly know fuck all about these things. I don't for one thing. But allowing a degree of participation might enable those who feel disenfranchised to do so.

User avatar
Belle Lettre
Éminence grise
Posts: 16143
Joined: 09 Oct 2008, 07:16
Location: Antiterra

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby Belle Lettre » 10 May 2017, 14:46

Goat Boy wrote:Referendums my arse. If we let the people continually decide shit it would be Mad Max within 50 years. They are not informed enough and too emotional. Direct democracy is too flawed for that sorta thing.

We need more people to vote and they need to be better informed. We also need governments that actually represent people who didn't vote for them. Should we do away with single party governments and always have coalitions?

I'd support that. They'll never let it happen here though.
Nikki Gradual wrote:
Get a fucking grip you narcissistic cretins.

User avatar
Fonz
Posts: 4088
Joined: 17 Feb 2014, 14:10
Location: Nevermore

Re: who are you going to vote for?

Postby Fonz » 10 May 2017, 14:59

Personally, I don't agree that people should be forced to vote.
But, and this is difficult to police, I think if you don't vote you should STFU when it comes yo talking about politics.

I'm sure we've all endured folks who have an opinion on Brexit, but ask them what they voted for and you get an embarrassed " well, erm ..."

I can't vote Tory, but I won't vote for a party with Corbyn as its leader.
Heyyyy!

"Fonz clearly has no fucks to give. I like the cut of his Cupicidal gib."


Return to “Nextdoorland”