Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Backslapping time. Well done us. We are fantastic.
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Diamond Dog
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Re:

Postby Diamond Dog » 26 Jan 2008, 12:30

Diamond Dog wrote:Elvis Presley
The Beatles
Bob Dylan
Jimi Hendrix
Kraftwerk
James Brown
Louis Armstrong
Grandmaster Flash
Sex Pistols/Malcolm MacLaren
The Stooges
Les Paul
Miles Davis
Ray Charles
Hank Williams
Velvet Underground
Sam Phillips
Alan Lomax
Woody Guthrie
Louis Jordan
Sam Cooke
Dizzy Gillespie
Thelonious Monk
Duke Ellington
Stockhausen
Frank Sinatra
Charlie Patton
Son House
Buddy Holly
Chuck Berry
Jimmie Rodgers
The Carter Family
Charlie Christian
Charlie Parker
Hank Williams Snr
John Coltrane
Led Zeppelin
James Brown.



I'm going to propose James Jamerson. Just listening to his bass playing - it really did change the way we hear music these days. This will please Bhoywonder greatly.

Any objections?
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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby & » 30 Jan 2008, 08:33

None. Paul Mc rates him and that's good enough for me.
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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby king feeb » 07 Feb 2008, 03:01

angshu wrote:None. Paul Mc rates him and that's good enough for me.


JJ is a good shout. The Motown bass sound changed the way that instrument was played and recorded. He definitely merits inclusion.
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Re:

Postby Quaco » 07 Feb 2008, 04:33

The Modernist! wrote:
Jeff K wrote:If you're talking about the outdoor, football stadium gigs, I don't believe the Stones started playing those until 1975.

But as far as the concert being an event, they were definitely a spectacle.


Yeah, I wasn't thinking so much of the chronology, just the idea of these big rock songs that act almost like a rallying cry. I think in many ways you can say the whole idea of rock music came from them, but their influence is so amorphous and omniscient, its very hard to pinpoint in terms of dates or specific records.

It's probably typical coming from me, but I'd like to nominate The Who as well.

Here are some things, based on a list I compiled for the VU vs. Who thread. Some of The Who's contributions to music ...

- Invented the Marshall stack.

- Invented round wound bass strings, now the standard type of string. Flatwounds are harder to come by.

- Created the template for power pop, as well as coining the term.

- I think you could make an argument that they were the template for Led Zeppelin and stadium rock. This one would be interesting to discuss/argue. I think of Jimmy Page seeing The Who and saying, "OK, I want to do this, but with everything beefed up."

- First group to smash their instruments, something which a lot of bands dabble in (everybody wants to do it).

- I think you could make an argument that "My Generation" and their auto-destruction was a big influence on late-seventies punk? It was the thing to beat, basically.

- One of the first groups to use feedback as part of their act. Though Jeff Beck and later Hendrix (whom The Who mentored early on, telling him what equipment to use) obviously made great contributions to this, one could argue it wouldn't have been the same without The Who.

bobzilla77 wrote:John Cale once said that when he heard the Who's singles in 1965, he knew he had to get to work immediately because someone else was about to beat him to the punch. "Oh my god, they're ALREADY DOING IT!"

It is hard to fathom what that music must have sounded like in 1965. The very idea that pop music could explode into noise and pure white hot energy... and be confrontational toward the audience itself...

Ron Asheton said more or less the same thing.

(So, it's possible they influenced some other artists on the list as well.)

- Big strides in the less obvious area of the technology and business of concert sound. In the Seventies, they operated the best and loudest sound in the business. Both Isle of Wight festivals used their sound system, the Grateful Dead used their equipment in Egypt, etc. They influenced both Pink Floyd and GD, two groups noted for their contributions to concert sound.

- First use of five-channel sound in movie theaters (for the Tommy film). This later became 5.1.

- Maybe you could say they helped pioneer the use of sequencers as backing for popular music (though both "Baba O'Riley" and "WGFA" are organs, the latter treated with a VCS3 synth)?

Plus the members' contributions to their individual instruments' vocabularies: Entwistle and Moon in particular have instantly identifiable sounds. Of course, many players do, but these two pushed playing of bass and drums way forward and inspired countless musicians in the process. Bass playing pre-Entwistle was completely different than it is allowed to be today. A lot of players cite him as a major influence. Moon is probably the most imitated and admired drummer in rock (though John Bonham is surely the most influential in terms of the actual sound of the drums).
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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby Quaco » 14 Feb 2008, 07:52

A week and no disagreement? For a post about The Who, this must be some sort of a record.
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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby harvey k-tel » 19 Feb 2008, 16:41

Well, I would like to know about that 'invented round wound bass strings' bit. Where'd you hear that?
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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby Quaco » 20 Feb 2008, 02:11

Harvey K-Tel wrote:Well, I would like to know about that 'invented round wound bass strings' bit. Where'd you hear that?

Here's Entwistle's version of the story.

But on the Rotosound website, they say the Swing Bass set was developed in 1962. So, maybe I should say "Entwistle perfected and helped popularize the standard roundwound bass string" or something? It's interesting that JE is not listed among their past endorsees, when he was certainly one of the main ones for a while. (I remember buying bass strings with his picture on them in the '80s.) Perhaps they had a falling out when he switched to Maximas?

Now, googling "Entwistle" and "round wound", there are a lot of people saying that Entwistle pioneered them or helped design them, but I can't find any solid evidence of his role. The closest is his own account, and Rotosound doesn't seem to be mentioning him, so I suppose I should stick with the amended wording.
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no one

Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby no one » 20 Feb 2008, 05:35

this thread is now 3 years old

it would not have been possible without Diamond Dog


Happy Birthday, Thread!

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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby Diamond Dog » 20 Feb 2008, 14:33

Three years old - what a great thread this has been.

I'm concerned we have no women in the list. :oops:
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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby Diamond Dog » 20 Feb 2008, 17:00

neverknows wrote:
Maryann wrote:Happy Birthday, Thread!

Thank you.



Briliant!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”
"Don't be seduced into thinking that which did not make a profit is without value"
"'Seize the moments as they fly, know to live and learn to die'."

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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby The Modernist » 24 Feb 2008, 22:33

Diamond Dog wrote:Three years old - what a great thread this has been.

I'm concerned we have no women in the list. :oops:


Just reread it. You completely ignored my arguments for The Stones and I think were rather intimidated by the junior Guralnick's on here proposing all sorts of arcane Americana (The Carter Family?) so you ended up with a bit of a lopsided list. But it was a great thread -well done!

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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby Stille Baron » 27 Feb 2008, 02:17

The Modernist! wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:Three years old - what a great thread this has been.

I'm concerned we have no women in the list. :oops:


Just reread it. You completely ignored my arguments for The Stones and I think were rather intimidated by the junior Guralnick's on here proposing all sorts of arcane Americana (The Carter Family?) so you ended up with a bit of a lopsided list. But it was a great thread -well done!


I have not read the thread, so I don't know what people were talking about, but HELL YES THE FUCKING CARTER FAMILY! Without whom, this would have been no more possible than without anywhom else.
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take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby The Modernist » 27 Feb 2008, 18:55

But to argue they have had a greater influence on the course of popular music over the last forty years than, say, The Stones (and this is essentially what Pete is arguing by including one and excluding the other) would be absurd surely? I accept they may have had a seminal influence on the narrow sphere of bluegrass or whatever.

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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby Quaco » 28 Feb 2008, 00:28

G,
I just looked back at your bid for the Stones. I remember it was toomanyhatz's reasoning that swayed me, that the Stones were responsible for the androgynous rock star, hence glam, and as well as being responsible for the basic sound of all garage rock. You said much the same thing about garage rock. But I wasn't sure about your idea that the Stones were the beginnings of arena rock and rock concert as a mass communal experience. I think that after The Beatles and Shea Stadium, that may have just been in the air. Festivals started happening. The Stones' first attempt at a festival-type show ended in disaster, and they didn't get back on that horse until 1972, by which time groups like the Dead (in the hippie/festival style) and The Who and Led Zeppelin (in hard rock) had already pretty much created the template. Certainly, the Stones' 1969 tour prior to Altamont (as documented on Get Your Ya-Ya's Out) was very much a bacchinalian, communal thing, but was it really arena rock per se? Was it any different from your typical Doors concert from the same time?

I definitely think they belong in the list, but I wouldn't mind hearing more about your thoughts, if you're up for it.

I also think The Who had something to do with punk rock. Punk rock has always had a strongly aggressive streak, which was what The Who brought to it. The Stones pioneered the basic rebellious stance -- certainly The Who themselves were influenced by them -- but a lot of the actual sound of the music of punk came from The Who. I sort of feel like The Stooges, who were the beginnings of a certain strain of punk, were basically the Stones' attitude and drawl pumped up by the aggression of The Who.
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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby Diamond Dog » 01 Mar 2008, 08:51

I've been thinking about The Stooges too? Anyone want to make a case for/against?
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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby C » 10 May 2008, 11:50

C wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:Kraftwerk - The only really new thing (post 'rock) has been synthesised, beat driven music. All hip hop owes a great deal to Kraftwerk - without their dedication to making 'non rock' music, it couldn't have happened.


Not quite. Kraftwerk owed it all to Tangerine Dream

.


Indeed my learned friend. Indeed



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fange wrote:OOOOF! Full of music!

Nice tubs. Good lad!

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Re: Re:

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Aug 2008, 14:27

Elvis Presley
The Beatles
Bob Dylan
Jimi Hendrix
Kraftwerk
James Brown
Louis Armstrong
Grandmaster Flash
Sex Pistols/Malcolm MacLaren
The Stooges
Les Paul
Miles Davis
Ray Charles
Hank Williams
Velvet Underground
Sam Phillips
Alan Lomax
Woody Guthrie
Louis Jordan
Sam Cooke
Dizzy Gillespie
Thelonious Monk
Duke Ellington
Stockhausen
Frank Sinatra
Charlie Patton
Son House
Buddy Holly
Chuck Berry
Jimmie Rodgers
The Carter Family
Charlie Christian
Charlie Parker
Hank Williams Snr
John Coltrane
Led Zeppelin
James Brown
James Jamerson.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”
"Don't be seduced into thinking that which did not make a profit is without value"
"'Seize the moments as they fly, know to live and learn to die'."

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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby Quaco » 03 Aug 2008, 23:15

Put the motherfucking Who in, Pete. I've offered a number of reasons!
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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby bhoywonder » 05 Aug 2008, 17:31

& wrote:None. Paul Mc rates him and that's good enough for me.


If only everyone was as wise as you 8-)

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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby Diamond Dog » 31 Aug 2008, 22:51

Quaco wrote:Put the motherfucking Who in, Pete. I've offered a number of reasons!


Had you come to Vegas, I may have.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”
"Don't be seduced into thinking that which did not make a profit is without value"
"'Seize the moments as they fly, know to live and learn to die'."