Edinburgh Jolly-Up :29th December

[Seymore Porn]

If acknowledging that I know more about music than Funkybawz makes me a snob - I'm a snob.

[Lemon Yoghourt]

[Lemon Yoghourt]

I also recall that we agreed to invade a Northern J-Up at some point in the future, too...

Thats right...

I'll leave Coo to get the ball rolling on that one!

Has he been heard from since his trip home?

[funky_nomad]

would you criticize a carpenter for having a poor opinion on a piece of M.F.I. furniture?

Even by your standards that's a ludicrous analogy.

You look down on me for having an informed opinion

Naw, ya fud - the argument we were making in the pub was that BCB looks down on everyone else for NOT having an informed opinion (quite correctly). Of COURSE you're a music snob - we all are!!!

And just because you have Grade 2 music or whatever, doesn't give your opinions any extra weighting, much as you'd like to think...

[Seymore Porn]

M.F.I. kitchen unit, complete with missing bits, = scabby punk records, written, sung and played by tits who knew fuck all about what they were at. Ask any musically aware carpenter.
I agree that B.C.B is full of musical snobs, most have their nose in the air and have no idea why other than they know what they like and they think they occupy the high ground.
Apart from my grade 2 or whatever it is, I have decades of playing and performing experience and you can't buy that. I also know my place in the Glasgow/Ayrshire hierarchy, and while it's nowhere near the top, it's nearer the top that the bottom and no amount of drunkenly shouting your catechism for 2 hours is going to change or belittle that.
I know the worth of my opinion, sadly, I also know the worth of yours.

[funky_nomad]

I know the worth of my opinion, sadly

At least we agree on something...

[Seymore Porn]

I know the worth of my opinion, sadly

At least we agree on something...

[Goat Boy]

You are a muso and a snob, Joe! You value technical skill and look down at bands (the Stooges for example) who don't measure up and now you are saying that because you've played in bands your opinion is somehow worth more than ours

Stop being an ARSE.


Aplogies I couldn't make this but I had to have xmas with the girlfriend and her family that night.

[Seymore Porn]

You are a muso and a snob, Joe! You value technical skill and look down at bands (the Stooges for example) who don't measure up and now you are saying that because you've played in bands your opinion is somehow worth more than ours

Stop being an ARSE.


Aplogies I couldn't make this but I had to have xmas with the girlfriend and her family that night.

I'm not a muso, I'm a half arsed muso who'd like to be a muso.
I do value technical skill, but I value the ability to use it appropriately far more.

My opinion on what constitutes musical skill and worth is more informed than that of non musos, how could it be otherwise? If I'd been a glass blower for the last 40 years, I'm pretty sure most people would value my opinion on it more than that of people who liked bottles - except maybe on BCB

If being right makes me an arse - I'm an arse and proud of it

[funky_nomad]

If I'd been a glass blower for the last 40 years, I'm pretty sure most people would value my opinion on it more than that of people who liked bottles

First carpenters, now glass-blowers - what is it with your insistence on using trade-based analogies for an art-based form? It does your argument, spurious as it is, no service whatsoever.

[Seymore Porn]

If I'd been a glass blower for the last 40 years, I'm pretty sure most people would value my opinion on it more than that of people who liked bottles

First carpenters, now glass-blowers - what is it with your insistence on using trade-based analogies for an art-based form? It does your argument, spurious as it is, no service whatsoever.

How much art is there without craft? Drawing? Painting? Woodworking? Glass blowing? Poetry? Literature? Photography? Pottery? Calligraphy? Sculpture? Drama?
What kind of percentage of practitioners of the arts are critically successful without learning the craft of their artform of choice?
We have a photographer and a poet on the board. I'm sure we have an actor too. We might have other artists, so why not ask some of them?

There might well be people who love the work of beginners and amateurs, but I'd bet few of them are artists working in the same medium.

[funky_nomad]

What kind of percentage of practitioners of the arts are critically successful without learning the craft of their artform of choice?

Now you're using "critically successful" as a criteria??? The same criteria which would, for example, regularly include The Stooges as one of the most influential bands of all time???

I'll go further - what's the criteria for defining what a "critic" is, in order to determine critical success? Publish in a magazine? Or on a website, perhaps...

You're tying yourself in knots trying to get out of this, Joe.

[Seymore Porn]

What kind of percentage of practitioners of the arts are critically successful without learning the craft of their artform of choice?

Now you're using "critically successful" as a criteria??? The same criteria which would, for example, regularly include The Stooges as one of the most influential bands of all time???

I'll go further - what's the criteria for defining what a "critic" is, in order to determine critical success? Publish in a magazine? Or on a website, perhaps...

You're tying yourself in knots trying to get out of this, Joe.

Don't be so fucking stupid. You are (deliberately I hope) confusing critical approval from one's peers with arse sucking from fashion writers (musical fashion in this case).
The stooges were influential because people liked them, not because they were good. The two, as you well know, don't always go hand in hand.

I note that you conveniently ignored my invitation to quiz our artistic types.

[funky_nomad]

You are (deliberately I hope) confusing critical approval from one's peers with arse sucking from fashion writers (musical fashion in this case).

Given the vacuity of most of your arguments, it's no surprise that you didn't define your terms of reference. Your bad, but I forgive you.

I note that you conveniently ignored my invitation to quiz our artistic types.

Invite anyone you like to this party, Joe, if you feel you need back up - but I'm certainly not going to do your work for you...

[Seymore Porn]

You are (deliberately I hope) confusing critical approval from one's peers with arse sucking from fashion writers (musical fashion in this case).

Given the vacuity of most of your arguments, it's no surprise that you didn't define your terms of reference. Your bad, but I forgive you.

I note that you conveniently ignored my invitation to quiz our artistic types.

Invite anyone you like to this party, Joe, if you feel you need back up - but I'm certainly not going to do your work for you...

So, successful artistic endeavour without craft. Evidence?

[Lemon Yoghourt]

Stop it! We need to save some fun for next time.

[Jimbly]

Technical ability is just that technical ability. It doesnt mean that what is played has any worth artistically.

I love a lot of music that is technically difficult, and I love a lot of music that isnt.

Do I care if someone is technical excellant, only if they produce stuff that my ears like.

Al Di Meola is a brilliant guitar player however I dont like his music, so it doesnt matter how well he plays it.

I love The Ramones but they arent exceptional musicians, it doesnt matter.

Conversely I cant stand The Fall and at the moment am listening to Mahavishnu Orchestra.

Its all about the notes connecting with the ears of the listener not how they are played.

[Seymore Porn]

Technical ability is just that technical ability. It doesnt mean that what is played has any worth artistically.

I love a lot of music that is technically difficult, and I love a lot of music that isnt.

Do I care if someone is technical excellant, only if they produce stuff that my ears like.

Al Di Meola is a brilliant guitar player however I dont like his music, so it doesnt matter how well he plays it.

I love The Ramones but they arent exceptional musicians, it doesnt matter.

Conversely I cant stand The Fall and at the moment am listening to Mahavishnu Orchestra.

Its all about the notes connecting with the ears of the listener not how they are played.

That's absolutely fine with me Jim, you're telling me what you like - no problem here.

Technical ability is just that technical ability. It doesnt mean that what is played has any worth artistically.

I love a lot of music that is technically difficult, and I love a lot of music that isnt.

Do I care if someone is technical excellant, only if they produce stuff that my ears like.

Al Di Meola is a brilliant guitar player however I dont like his music

That sums up 90% of my view on it - the other 10% of my opinion is that I cannot enjoy music which is technically inept. I'm not saying people shouldn't like it, only that they shouldn't insist it's good, I particularly don't like the opinion delivered with max db and with complimentary ear spray

[Jimbly]

How do you class something as musically inept?

The Ramones play in tune and time, odd bum note live.

So who do you regard as inept?

[Seymore Porn]

How do you class something as musically inept?

The Ramones play in tune and time, odd bum note live.

So who do you regard as inept?

The vocals are NOT in tune on the records I've heard. The songwriting is, possibly not inept, but one idea is massively overused.