Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Backslapping time. Well done us. We are fantastic.

la la la la la la la

Britney
26
34%
PJ
50
66%
 
Total votes: 76

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Harvey K-Tel
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Harvey K-Tel » 10 Nov 2007, 23:56

sloopjohnc wrote:By the way, how does someone have time to put out an album between the quickie marriages, annulments, marriages to dancers and having kids? Not to mention the partying and car chases.



Do you really think she spends a lot of time working at it?

Anyway, that's what weekends are for.
If you've got nothing to do, don't do it here.

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Phenomenal Cat
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Phenomenal Cat » 11 Nov 2007, 00:41

Loveless wrote:
The Red Heifer wrote:
Loveless wrote:I know Steve Albini.

He can blow me.


That's wonderfully generous of you.


Exceedingly so, now that I reflect.

I probably could have (less succinctly, granted) simply suggested that I don't respect him terribly.


Hold up, bro! When I recorded with Albini, he said I was an awesome drummer.

He did not, however, offer to blow me.
:cry:

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Leg of lamb » 11 Nov 2007, 01:27

Betty Denim wrote:David, as usual, I want to agree with you because you’re generally right and eloquently so, but I just want to offer another viewpoint, which is that I don’t necessarily think art and life have to correspond. I honestly don’t see a problem with wanting to be a virgin until you’re married and making sexy music and videos. People know the difference and if they don’t they should. Frankly, women can wear and do whatever the hell they like and still not want to actually have sex; it’s an essential prerogative. If she’d been an actress who advertised her virginity yet had frequent nude and sex scenes in films would that have been hazardous? It's make-believe, showmanship, entertainment...'art' doesn't have to have anything to do with your life. It works both ways in music too. Look at George Michael: a purveyor of mostly MOR heterosexual love songs who, by his own admission, has spent much of his adult life shagging strange men in public bogs, and good for him. Music and art can be about altered images and acting out polar opposites to your actual life; arguably it’s better that way.


I'd normally agree with you completely, Sarah, but I do think that there was something particularly damaging about the concoction that Britney was presenting at the time. Her pronouncements about her sexuality were (as I remember ... this could all fall down if I don't recall it right!) prudish and quite obviously meant to act as an encouragement to others to follow her in abstinence. They were categorical, and representative of a worldview that a lot of her fanbase would have been pressured into accepting from a lot of angles. I don't think that her young, Middle American fans could have made your distinction between art and life; for them, rejecting sex before marriage is a big moral issue which you don't make exceptions for, especially not art.

You might well say that Britney doesn't have any responsibility to give up her right to experiment just because she's got a large following of naive fans. Objectively, I guess you're right. But if she was open-minded enough about sexuality to play about with hers in raunchy songs, she should have been open-minded enough to know that not everyone would share her moral view about sex before marriage. She really shouldn't have made herself a spokesperson for celibacy. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realise that I don't feel at all outraged about 'Slave 4 U': just the fact that she was bleating on about her piety around its release. That's the part that bugs me.

So yeah, of course she can have a personal conviction about saving herself for marriage and still play out sexual personas in her art - as you say, that's her right. But the issue with Britney is that she made herself out to be this avatar for celibacy who just wouldn't have feasibly had those subtle distinctions. The result was - and I stand by this - damagingly hypocritical. The people who looked up to her as a role model for sexual ethics would have seen her happily be objectified (which she no doubt was, immaterial of whether she felt empowered by it) while disavowing the right to any of the pleasure or self-fulfillment of actual sex.
Brother Spoon wrote:I would probably enjoy this record more if it came to me in a brown paper bag filled with manure, instead of this richly illustrated disgrace to my eyes.

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby & » 11 Nov 2007, 04:59

Betty Denim wrote:David, as usual, I want to agree with you because you’re generally right and eloquently so...


Leg of lamb wrote:I'd normally agree with you completely, Sarah...


Get a room!
"You're a rude and ignorant individual and I hope you get no sleep tonight." - Sir John Coan

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Piggly Wiggly » 11 Nov 2007, 09:50

Phenomenal Cat wrote:Hold up, bro! When I recorded with Albini, he said I was an awesome drummer.


You ARE an outstanding musician. In many ways, you made me better when we played together.

Albini has nothing to do with your gifts.

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Leg of lamb » 11 Nov 2007, 11:48

angshu wrote:
Betty Denim wrote:David, as usual, I want to agree with you because you’re generally right and eloquently so...


Leg of lamb wrote:I'd normally agree with you completely, Sarah...


Get a room!


That's a cheeky decontextualisation of my quote there, angshu! You've made it look like I was saying that I normally agree with Betty no matter what, when what I was saying is that I'd normally agree completely with what she'd just said about the distinction between art and life. If you read that gobbet in the full sentence it's taken from, that should be clear. Tut tut ;)
Brother Spoon wrote:I would probably enjoy this record more if it came to me in a brown paper bag filled with manure, instead of this richly illustrated disgrace to my eyes.

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby yomptepi » 11 Nov 2007, 15:07

Loveless wrote:
Phenomenal Cat wrote:Hold up, bro! When I recorded with Albini, he said I was an awesome drummer.


You ARE an outstanding musician. In many ways, you made me better when we played together.

Albini has nothing to do with your gifts.


Get a room you two...sheeesh!!!
You don't like me...do you?

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby & » 11 Nov 2007, 16:30

Leg of lamb wrote:
angshu wrote:
Betty Denim wrote:David, as usual, I want to agree with you because you’re generally right and eloquently so...


Leg of lamb wrote:I'd normally agree with you completely, Sarah...


Get a room!


That's a cheeky decontextualisation of my quote there, angshu! You've made it look like I was saying that I normally agree with Betty no matter what, when what I was saying is that I'd normally agree completely with what she'd just said about the distinction between art and life. If you read that gobbet in the full sentence it's taken from, that should be clear. Tut tut ;)


Forgive me my indulgence. I couldn't bring myself to pass it up. :)
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Sneelock » 11 Nov 2007, 16:38

neverknows wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote: Hugo made a point earlier that Britney's new album sounded more adventurous than Harvey's.

Anyway, as a result of this great thread which I'd totally missed, I have just bought Blackout. :lol:


define "adventurous". I think 'white chalk' is better. more adventurous? well, I think it sounds less like what p.j.'s done before. the Britney has a great sound but it's still state of the art dance music. so was her last album. what's adventurous about it?

Sneelock

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Sneelock » 11 Nov 2007, 17:00

neverknows wrote: Some people are of the opinion that PJ is wearing the adventurousness costume, with the right number of buttons and all that, but is not actually all that challenging an artist, whereas Britney's record is actually sonically interesting.


new dance music usually is.
I think Britney is getting critical affirmative action from people who just don't like P.J.
I like that she goes from thing to thing. sue me.

La Denim

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby La Denim » 11 Nov 2007, 17:02

Leg of lamb wrote:
Betty Denim wrote:David, as usual, I want to agree with you because you’re generally right and eloquently so, but I just want to offer another viewpoint, which is that I don’t necessarily think art and life have to correspond. I honestly don’t see a problem with wanting to be a virgin until you’re married and making sexy music and videos. People know the difference and if they don’t they should. Frankly, women can wear and do whatever the hell they like and still not want to actually have sex; it’s an essential prerogative. If she’d been an actress who advertised her virginity yet had frequent nude and sex scenes in films would that have been hazardous? It's make-believe, showmanship, entertainment...'art' doesn't have to have anything to do with your life. It works both ways in music too. Look at George Michael: a purveyor of mostly MOR heterosexual love songs who, by his own admission, has spent much of his adult life shagging strange men in public bogs, and good for him. Music and art can be about altered images and acting out polar opposites to your actual life; arguably it’s better that way.


I'd normally agree with you completely, Sarah, but I do think that there was something particularly damaging about the concoction that Britney was presenting at the time. Her pronouncements about her sexuality were (as I remember ... this could all fall down if I don't recall it right!) prudish and quite obviously meant to act as an encouragement to others to follow her in abstinence. They were categorical, and representative of a worldview that a lot of her fanbase would have been pressured into accepting from a lot of angles. I don't think that her young, Middle American fans could have made your distinction between art and life; for them, rejecting sex before marriage is a big moral issue which you don't make exceptions for, especially not art.

You might well say that Britney doesn't have any responsibility to give up her right to experiment just because she's got a large following of naive fans. Objectively, I guess you're right. But if she was open-minded enough about sexuality to play about with hers in raunchy songs, she should have been open-minded enough to know that not everyone would share her moral view about sex before marriage. She really shouldn't have made herself a spokesperson for celibacy. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realise that I don't feel at all outraged about 'Slave 4 U': just the fact that she was bleating on about her piety around its release. That's the part that bugs me.

So yeah, of course she can have a personal conviction about saving herself for marriage and still play out sexual personas in her art - as you say, that's her right. But the issue with Britney is that she made herself out to be this avatar for celibacy who just wouldn't have feasibly had those subtle distinctions. The result was - and I stand by this - damagingly hypocritical. The people who looked up to her as a role model for sexual ethics would have seen her happily be objectified (which she no doubt was, immaterial of whether she felt empowered by it) while disavowing the right to any of the pleasure or self-fulfillment of actual sex.


Now you've elaborated yeah I think I will yield my position a bit. I also have to admit that I wasn't aware of the extent to which she promoted celibacy as aggresively as you suggest. I also accept that it's perhaps a more complicated issue in the States. For what it's worth I don't think she remained a virgin for anywhere near as long as she intimated and I wonder how much of the whole ill-conceived debacle was actually sincere. Sometimes remarks run away with us and take on a life of their own.

Sneelock

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Sneelock » 11 Nov 2007, 17:05

it's hard to blame Britney that media outlets ask those questions and print that stuff.
there's something on the net about Prince Somebody breaking up with his girlfriend! why is that crap on the newswire? because it's cheaper than journalism.

La Denim

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby La Denim » 11 Nov 2007, 17:23

angshu wrote:
Betty Denim wrote:David, as usual, I want to agree with you because you’re generally right and eloquently so...


Leg of lamb wrote:I'd normally agree with you completely, Sarah...


Get a room!


:lol: Angshu, you're such a perv :roll: .

Sneelock

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Sneelock » 11 Nov 2007, 17:54

all the best people are!

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Deebank » 15 Nov 2007, 14:23

Bleep wrote:That's the one about the flaps isn't it?



and 'dirty pillows' too, yes.
You can't argue with dirty pillows.

Anyway here's my summation of the thread so far for those that can't be arsed to read it...

Coan listens to his old PJH LPs and decides he doesn't like her anymore, being the consumate wind up bloke he starts a thread to set the cat amongst the goldfish (he's also a surrealist). Who better to pitch old scrawny beast against than the plump and feccund Ms Spears!

Meanwhile Moddie chips in by constructing the 'authenticity' straw man so he can write withering postmodern screeds demolishing the gollum that is of course his own creation - or to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he sees as the snobby subtext behind many posts.

Meanwhile the board quietly decides Harvey is better by some margin and goes back to its navel (and acne) contemplation.

My fave bit so far is the bra burning bit (ie the difference between taking your bra off to burn it and taking it off to get yer tits out for the lads), that's genius and worth the price of entry alone. Well done all!
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby king feeb » 15 Nov 2007, 15:32

Image
You'd pay big bucks to know what you really think.

Sneelock

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Sneelock » 04 Nov 2008, 19:01

o.k. who do I have to kill to get this in "classic threads"?

Bungo the Mungo

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 04 Nov 2008, 22:46

sneelock wrote:o.k. who do I have to kill to get this in "classic threads"?


My threads don't get in, Snee. :(

Sneelock

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Sneelock » 04 Nov 2008, 23:04

well, I'll just keep bumping it! I loved this one!

Bungo the Mungo

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 04 Nov 2008, 23:20

Me too.

I wish I still gave as much of a shit....