Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Backslapping time. Well done us. We are fantastic.

la la la la la la la

Britney
27
35%
PJ
50
65%
 
Total votes: 77

Sneelock

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Sneelock » 10 Nov 2007, 01:59

and, of course, to give men boners.

Bungo the Mungo

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 10 Nov 2007, 02:01

This has fragmented into about five different arguments now and people are getting agitated and I'd rather go and fry some eggs and watch a film, frankly.

G'night!

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby The Red Heifer » 10 Nov 2007, 02:03

Typical.
Wadesmith wrote:Why is it that when there's a 'What do you think of this?' post, it's always absolute cobblers?

Sneelock

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Sneelock » 10 Nov 2007, 02:03

probably porno.

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby The Red Heifer » 10 Nov 2007, 02:05

This thread's been going about a week, I'm surprised he still has a boner to pull!

EDIT: Make that nearly 2.
Last edited by The Red Heifer on 10 Nov 2007, 02:22, edited 1 time in total.
Wadesmith wrote:Why is it that when there's a 'What do you think of this?' post, it's always absolute cobblers?

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby toomanyhatz » 10 Nov 2007, 02:15

I'm having popcorn, personally.

So has someone accused him of being a windup merchant lately?

I have no opinion on that other than to say if he is, he's a very successful one. 21 pages now!!
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby sloopjohnc » 10 Nov 2007, 02:27

king feeb wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:
king feeb wrote:I seriously doubt Brit has anywhere near the same level of commitment to the musical artform. I bet if her agents came in tomorrow and said "Time for a career change, Brit...no more music except occasional tours. We're going to concentrate on film and TV roles for you", she would have little or no objection. She'd probably be into it.


But this is an assumption. I think Britney has her "handlers," for sure, but I think she probably has a fair degree of control now.

And I don't think her mgmt was probably too keen on the head shaving and Federline relationship.

There's only so much mgmt can do. I can't recollect that much damage control either, which kinda tells me, that despite what she did, Britney does what Britney wants.

Either that or mgmt threw up their hands.

I think it also assumes that if PJ Harvey had film aspirations she wouldn't give up music to a large degree.

I think that's a big assumption too.


Well, since we're making big assumptions, Sloop, how about this one:

I think Britney's handlers may have aided and abetted her trainwreck personal life. At the very minimum, they didn't discourage it. It kept her in the tabloids, and gave her a pretty visible presence in the mainstream press as well. Britney taking a hiatus to have kids posed a problem to her management: how could they keep interest in Britney high for a couple of years while she wasn't producing any new music? It's the same problem Colonel Parker faced when Elvis went into the service. Fortunately for them, Brit is apparently a confused nutjob, so she made their job pretty easy.

I don't see her as being in control, really, although her every whim is seemingly catered to.


Good points all.

I have the feeling that Brit loves peanut butter and banana sandwiches too.

. . . with a whiskey chaser.
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Sneelock » 10 Nov 2007, 02:31

I doubt if her handlers thought that award show was a good idea. I think we're seeing the same sort of thing as when Maria Carey had that "meltdown" a few years back. work hard, play hard, go crazy. and that's without all the personal problems.

when a boat doesn't have a rudder it goes plooey.

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Owen » 10 Nov 2007, 08:49

Something not mentioned on the first 10 pages at least. PJ has U2's manager and he went all out to get her a mercury prize and make her a star within the sort of demographic he has a degree of control in. I'm not sure you can wait till she fails to achieve that stardom due to public lack of interest and then act like she's never been interested in selling out.

I have a bunch of PJ Harvey albums which I played a few times when they came out, and nothing by Britney. But the PJ stuff is average, hold your attention for a few weeks and then never play it and forget the titles stuff. I've never been that convinced by many hipster arguments for Britney because there are pop singers and groups out there who have better hit rates and seem to have more of a clue of how to actually serve the Neptunes or whoevers latest song (Matt RP's point I guess)

But the 3 or 4 great Britney singles are better and will last better than the 5 or 6 PJ albums taking up space on a bunch of thirty and forty something year old men's shelves without being played.

It's not that Britney's great, it's that PJ's just there and kind of OK. And she's definitely been marketed, you don't get Mercury prizes and McGuiness management if you aren't career minded. It's just nobody apart from blokes on here were buying

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Mr Maps » 10 Nov 2007, 14:34

Owen wrote: It's just nobody apart from blokes on here were buying


Yeah, each of her 8 albums sold only 12 copies. Only one rates lower than 4 stars on AMG and she recorded half a dozen Peel Sessions. That's why she still has U2's manager and the same record company. Cuz everybody hates her.
I'm sure she's waiting tables somewhere right now.

Just because you don't like her doesn't mean she's a talentless failure.
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby sloopjohnc » 10 Nov 2007, 16:13

Sneelock wrote:I doubt if her handlers thought that award show was a good idea. I think we're seeing the same sort of thing as when Maria Carey had that "meltdown" a few years back. work hard, play hard, go crazy. and that's without all the personal problems.

when a boat doesn't have a rudder it goes plooey.


Well, then how come the handlers didn't shut down the idea?

I know the answer. The album was coming out.

By the way, how does someone have time to put out an album between the quickie marriages, annulments, marriages to dancers and having kids? Not to mention the partying and car chases.

Her VMA performance didn't seem to hurt her new album's record sales any. Unlike Mariah.
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby La Denim » 10 Nov 2007, 16:20

Leg of lamb wrote:I've obviously been in the pro-Spears camp during this thread but I don't quite agree with some of the judgements being made about sexuality (i.e. 'it's basically all of the same quality').

The most critical I've ever come to being about Britney was immediately after 'Slave 4 U' came out. We may have forgotten it after all the batshit antics she's been up to lately, but this was, if I recall right, the first single she'd released after a pile of furore about her flaunting her virginity, etc. I've suppressed this thought since because I love the song but, casting my mind back to how I felt then, I still can't get over the sheer hypocrisy of that move. Here she was, casting off homilies about chastity to any manner of impressionable teenagers, probably giving at least a few of them a complex in the process, and then her next single is possibly the horniest, most blatantly sexual song the Neptunes ever helmed. The fact that it was great is immaterial to how damaging that decision might have been (and obviously it's impossible to really judge whether or not it did any damage, I'm just guessing). I don't see any spin on it other than the following ...

P1 Sex is not to be had before marriage
P2 But being sexualised in videos is OK
--------------------------------------
C It's ok to be objectified at any time (P2) but the actual pleasure of sex can only be had in wedlock (P1)

What a terrible and hazardous message. It's clear that someone behind Britney was pulling the strings because I don't see how a quite simple girl from Louisiana could have come up with such a contradiction on her own. The way I see it, either she was in earnest about the virtue of celibacy and being pushed into the sexy subject matter and videos, or she couldn't have given a fuck about virginity but was being pushed into acting out the role by a group of imagists trying to exploit her wholesome-girl-next-door vibe.

Anyway, the point is that there's a massive ethical difference between being manipulated as a sex symbol and being manipulated as an 'artist'. As lots of people have said, it doesn't matter fuck all who has creative control in the artistic enterprise. But it really does matter if sexuality is being controlled in an analagous way. Sexuality is ultimately something which you have to be in control of yourself. It's completely different to having a pack of writers penning your hit songs.


David, as usual, I want to agree with you because you’re generally right and eloquently so, but I just want to offer another viewpoint, which is that I don’t necessarily think art and life have to correspond. I honestly don’t see a problem with wanting to be a virgin until you’re married and making sexy music and videos. People know the difference and if they don’t they should. Frankly, women can wear and do whatever the hell they like and still not want to actually have sex; it’s an essential prerogative. If she’d been an actress who advertised her virginity yet had frequent nude and sex scenes in films would that have been hazardous? It's make-believe, showmanship, entertainment...'art' doesn't have to have anything to do with your life. It works both ways in music too. Look at George Michael: a purveyor of mostly MOR heterosexual love songs who, by his own admission, has spent much of his adult life shagging strange men in public bogs, and good for him. Music and art can be about altered images and acting out polar opposites to your actual life; arguably it’s better that way.
Last edited by La Denim on 10 Nov 2007, 16:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby king feeb » 10 Nov 2007, 16:21

Well, I'm hoping Britney can get her shit together, clean up her act, undergo an image "reinvention" and start hanging out with Noam Chomsky real soon.
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby sloopjohnc » 10 Nov 2007, 16:41

Betty Denim wrote:Look at George Michael: a purveyor of mostly MOR heterosexual love songs who, by his own admission, has spent much of his adult life shagging strange men in public bogs, and good for him.


While Michael is admittedly more randy, the same thing could be said of lots of singers women swoon over, including Luther Vandross and Johnny Mathis.
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby My name is Spaulding » 10 Nov 2007, 17:15

Loveless wrote:
Sneelock wrote:
now, find a picture of Britney holding a guitar.


I'll get crucified for saying this, but it would only be marginally moreso a prop in her hands than it is in Liz Phair's or PJ's.


Steve Albini himself would crucify you for that. :) He´s been known to say that P.J. is a fantastic, underrated guitar player, and that the only thing he regrets in her latest musical adventures is that her guitar habilities have been hidden by other instruments
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Piggly Wiggly » 10 Nov 2007, 21:51

I know Steve Albini.

He can blow me.

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby The Red Heifer » 10 Nov 2007, 22:49

Loveless wrote:I know Steve Albini.

He can blow me.


That's wonderfully generous of you.
Wadesmith wrote:Why is it that when there's a 'What do you think of this?' post, it's always absolute cobblers?

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby The Red Heifer » 10 Nov 2007, 22:51

Betty Denim wrote: Look at George Michael: a purveyor of mostly MOR heterosexual love songs who, by his own admission, has spent much of his adult life shagging strange men in public bogs, and good for him. Music and art can be about altered images and acting out polar opposites to your actual life; arguably it’s better that way.


To be fair to George Michael, when he recorded Faith, he actually was banging a chick. Of course he was still gay, but he was out there in heteroville at the time.
Wadesmith wrote:Why is it that when there's a 'What do you think of this?' post, it's always absolute cobblers?

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Johnny Fartpants » 10 Nov 2007, 22:57

Well I'd like to shag Britney and Polly Jean, whilst eating a kebab and resting my pint on Jessica Alba's tits.

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Piggly Wiggly » 10 Nov 2007, 23:33

The Red Heifer wrote:
Loveless wrote:I know Steve Albini.

He can blow me.


That's wonderfully generous of you.


Exceedingly so, now that I reflect.

I probably could have (less succinctly, granted) simply suggested that I don't respect him terribly.