Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Backslapping time. Well done us. We are fantastic.

la la la la la la la

Britney
26
34%
PJ
50
66%
 
Total votes: 76

Sneelock

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Sneelock » 09 Nov 2007, 21:41

TheModernist wrote:Well yeah. Honestly I have no great axe to grind against PJ Harvey, but you sense even her defenders prefer other things a whole lot more.

so? if the thread was "would you rather eat glass or rocks?" I would choose glass or rocks.

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby The Modernist » 09 Nov 2007, 21:42

Sneelock wrote:who's been celebrating Britney's albums? I keep seeing the same four or five song titles.


The only song title I remember anyone mentioning from PJ Harvey was Deebank bigging up "Sheela Na Gig".
(sorry if I got the title wrong..I couldn't be arsed to look it up ).

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Toby » 09 Nov 2007, 21:43

That's the one about the flaps isn't it?

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Mr Maps » 09 Nov 2007, 21:46

Well the two of you are hardly going to be a receptive audience are you?
I like all of her records a lot except maybe Uh Huh Her which is pretty good but I thought it was a tredding water record and a throw back to the Rid Of Me days. Which are great but to her fans she doesn't really do the 'more of the same' kind of thing.
My favourite is Is This Desire?

White Chalk will be on my year end best list. She is one of the few that I will buy with out having to hear it. I like the DVD, I'd love to see her live and so on and so forth.

So go ahead, make your fun.
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby The Modernist » 09 Nov 2007, 21:47

Sneelock wrote:
TheModernist wrote:Well yeah. Honestly I have no great axe to grind against PJ Harvey, but you sense even her defenders prefer other things a whole lot more.

so? if the thread was "would you rather eat glass or rocks?" I would choose glass or rocks.


No one's saying Britney is a great artist. We are saying she's made a few genuinely memorable pop songs ( the degree of her own artistic contribution is a mute point and in some ways unimportant). PJ Harvey on the other hand has made a solid career for herself without ever really having the originality or hooks to make any kind of imprint. That makes Britney better for everyone not encumbered by rock snob values. That is all.
Have I finally killed the thread? :lol:

The Modernist

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby The Modernist » 09 Nov 2007, 21:50

Mr Maps wrote:Well the two of you are hardly going to be a receptive audience are you?
I like all of her records a lot except maybe Uh Huh Her which is pretty good but I thought it was a tredding water record and a throw back to the Rid Of Me days. Which are great but to her fans she doesn't really do the 'more of the same' kind of thing.
My favourite is Is This Desire?

White Chalk will be on my year end best list. She is one of the few that I will buy with out having to hear it. I like the DVD, I'd love to see her live and so on and so forth.

So go ahead, make your fun.


No that's cool. But it has taken us this long to find that kind of passion about her.
Hey it's BCB..we argue about music, but when it comes to personal taste of course I can't argue you're wrong. I wouldn't want to.

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby king feeb » 09 Nov 2007, 22:07

sloopjohnc wrote:
king feeb wrote:I seriously doubt Brit has anywhere near the same level of commitment to the musical artform. I bet if her agents came in tomorrow and said "Time for a career change, Brit...no more music except occasional tours. We're going to concentrate on film and TV roles for you", she would have little or no objection. She'd probably be into it.


But this is an assumption. I think Britney has her "handlers," for sure, but I think she probably has a fair degree of control now.

And I don't think her mgmt was probably too keen on the head shaving and Federline relationship.

There's only so much mgmt can do. I can't recollect that much damage control either, which kinda tells me, that despite what she did, Britney does what Britney wants.

Either that or mgmt threw up their hands.

I think it also assumes that if PJ Harvey had film aspirations she wouldn't give up music to a large degree.

I think that's a big assumption too.


Well, since we're making big assumptions, Sloop, how about this one:

I think Britney's handlers may have aided and abetted her trainwreck personal life. At the very minimum, they didn't discourage it. It kept her in the tabloids, and gave her a pretty visible presence in the mainstream press as well. Britney taking a hiatus to have kids posed a problem to her management: how could they keep interest in Britney high for a couple of years while she wasn't producing any new music? It's the same problem Colonel Parker faced when Elvis went into the service. Fortunately for them, Brit is apparently a confused nutjob, so she made their job pretty easy.

I don't see her as being in control, really, although her every whim is seemingly catered to.
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Taco » 09 Nov 2007, 22:27

Britney just needs understanding. I think I could help. I really do.
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Sneelock » 09 Nov 2007, 22:32

TheModernist wrote:
Sneelock wrote:
TheModernist wrote:Well yeah. Honestly I have no great axe to grind against PJ Harvey, but you sense even her defenders prefer other things a whole lot more.

so? if the thread was "would you rather eat glass or rocks?" I would choose glass or rocks.


No one's saying Britney is a great artist. We are saying she's made a few genuinely memorable pop songs ( the degree of her own artistic contribution is a mute point and in some ways unimportant). PJ Harvey on the other hand has made a solid career for herself without ever really having the originality or hooks to make any kind of imprint. That makes Britney better for everyone not encumbered by rock snob values. That is all.
Have I finally killed the thread? :lol:


no, just your credibility! :lol:
Britney's hooks are original? I'm not saying P.J. is a great artist, I'm saying that I like her better.
are you judging P.J.'s imprint by Britney's? she's sold millions of records. maybe she can't afford to fly to her favorite Starbucks but she's really doing pretty okay.

I think the snobbery at work is "pop snob". If I don't drink from the grail of pop that I may be able to SEE, but not all the colors of the rainbow!

I like P.J. better and you don't. everything else is just sport.

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby The Red Heifer » 10 Nov 2007, 00:46

To those people saying that Britneys and PJ's use of sexuality has to be the same, because to assume one is more mature or "commentative" is ridculous, I present the argument winner, Ms Beth Ditto

Image

Now this can go either one of 2 ways. Either people can say this turns men on, which is, while each opinion is different obviously, debatable. Or you can say it's commentative on big women being sex symbols in society, which validates everybodys opinion that PJ can be making a statement using her version of getting half naked (which I believe she is, thats why most of her fans aren't men).

And you can't say she's different because she's fat, because that will just make that person stupid.

So anyone saying that it's all used to "turn men on" can fuck off, I've just proven you wrong beyond all reasonable doubt.
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby The Modernist » 10 Nov 2007, 00:58

The Red Heifer wrote:To those people saying that Britneys and PJ's use of sexuality has to be the same, because to assume one is more mature or "commentative" is ridculous, I present the argument winner, Ms Beth Ditto

Image

Now this can go either one of 2 ways. Either people can say this turns men on, which is, while each opinion is different obviously, debatable. Or you can say it's commentative on big women being sex symbols in society, which validates everybodys opinion that PJ can be making a statement using her version of getting half naked (which I believe she is, thats why most of her fans aren't men).

And you can't say she's different because she's fat, because that will just make that person stupid.

So anyone saying that it's all used to "turn men on" can fuck off, I've just proven you wrong beyond all reasonable doubt.


It's just a loud, fat girl showing off isn't it?

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 10 Nov 2007, 01:01

And they call her 'the queen of cool'.

:lol:

The NME was quite good once over, wasn't it?

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby The Red Heifer » 10 Nov 2007, 01:38

TheModernist wrote:It's just a loud, fat girl showing off isn't it?


I personally don't like her, but look at the facts. She's a representative of a movement regarding an unrealistic body image, and she is flaunting it by appearing naked on the cover of the NME. Henceforth she's using her sexuality to make a stand. Keira Knightley and Germaine Greer (a batshit lunatic if you ask me, but we digress) are just 2 high profile women who have praised her for her efforts in this regard.

My point is this, it proves that anyone can use their body for any reason. I can use my body as an argument against KFC, PJ can use her sexuality to explore entirely different themes and avenues than Britney can, and she does, hence why PJ's sexuality and revelations, so to speak, are recignised and understood by her group of fans, entirely different to the WHOA reations that Britney flaunting her goods gets. To say that Britney grinding 7 or 8 male dancers and various pieces of furniture whilst wearing negligable clothing is exactly the same as PJ wearing skintight pink catsuits, or no pants with a shirt saying "lick my legs" (obvious to most here, but not all) is ludicrous.

Is a woman taking off her bra to burn it exactly the same as a woman taking off her bra to show her titties to the assembled throng exactly the same? Of course not.

A long way of saying I'm still right. Which I am.
Wadesmith wrote:Why is it that when there's a 'What do you think of this?' post, it's always absolute cobblers?

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby toomanyhatz » 10 Nov 2007, 01:42

The Red Heifer wrote:
TheModernist wrote:It's just a loud, fat girl showing off isn't it?


I personally don't like her, but look at the facts. She's a representative of a movement regarding an unrealistic body image, and she is flaunting it by appearing naked on the cover of the NME. Henceforth she's using her sexuality to make a stand. Keira Knightley and Germaine Greer (a batshit lunatic if you ask me, but we digress) are just 2 high profile women who have praised her for her efforts in this regard.

My point is this, it proves that anyone can use their body for any reason. I can use my body as an argument against KFC, PJ can use her sexuality to explore entirely different themes and avenues than Britney can, and she does, hence why PJ's sexuality and revelations, so to speak, are recignised and understood by her group of fans, entirely different to the WHOA reations that Britney flaunting her goods gets. To say that Britney grinding 7 or 8 male dancers and various pieces of furniture whilst wearing negligable clothing is exactly the same as PJ wearing skintight pink catsuits, or no pants with a shirt saying "lick my legs" (obvious to most here, but not all) is ludicrous.

Is a woman taking off her bra to burn it exactly the same as a woman taking off her bra to show her titties to the assembled throng exactly the same? Of course not.

A long way of saying I'm still right. Which I am.


But I never said anything about it being the same. I said placing a value judgement on it is ultimately a subjective exercise. And that giving either of them musical points based on the intention of their image, is absurd. You're right in some respects, but I still feel that way.
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 10 Nov 2007, 01:51

The Red Heifer wrote:Is a woman taking off her bra to burn it exactly the same as a woman taking off her bra to show her titties to the assembled throng exactly the same? Of course not.


Who's burnt their bra? nobody! this is completely irrelevant.

What it comes down to, and what you have studiously avoided in your arguments, is that Britney and PJ use sex (not in exactly the same way - you know that, and nobody here has even insinuated that) to help sell records. One is therefore no higher, morally, than the other - despite your claims that PJ (or Patti, or whoever) is making a statement. There is no statement. There is wearing skimpy clothes. A fat lass wearing very little isn't automatically making more of a statement than a cute thin girl doing the same thing. People attach their own arguments to this and there's nothing necessarily there.

Sneelock

Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Sneelock » 10 Nov 2007, 01:54

Sir John Coan wrote:. There is no statement.

not to you. because you don't want to fuck her while listening to Bjork..
you read a lot into what B. does because you do.
admit it!!!

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby The Red Heifer » 10 Nov 2007, 01:56

I wasn't referring to you hatz, sorry for the misconception, I was referring to this:

Sir John Coan wrote:I don't know how you can attach such complex ideas to something like taking half your clothes off. How can wearing a miniskirt be 'commentative'? It is what it is. It turns men on.


Which it clearly isn't. Of course it's all subjective, but it's like saying women put make-up on just to look more attractive to men. Which is lunacy.
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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Sneelock » 10 Nov 2007, 01:57

some women do it because they think it's fun!
as little as we think those two have in common, I'll bet they have this in common.

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby Mr Maps » 10 Nov 2007, 01:58

Sir John Coan wrote: A fat lass wearing very little isn't automatically making more of a statement than a cute thin girl doing the same thing.


I disagree.
nathan wrote:I realize there is a time and a place for unsexy music, but I personally have no time for it.


Django wrote: It's video clips of earnest post-rock I want, and I have little time for anything else.

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Re: Britney Spears vs. PJ Harvey

Postby The Red Heifer » 10 Nov 2007, 01:59

Or they wear it because it makes them feel good about themselves

Again, one of the very few things they have in common.
Wadesmith wrote:Why is it that when there's a 'What do you think of this?' post, it's always absolute cobblers?