When was the last time you lot used some originality?

[The Prof]

Fuckin hell, 8 pages of some old blokes arguing shit.

As opposed to what? This is BcB.

Good point - I didn't think it through.

[The Midnight Special]

If I didn't personally know the people who've posted on this thread I'd find it totally boring, but I do know them so it's totally entertaining.

[bhoywonder]

It's a fucking noun, like drink

Thank you for clearing that one up.

At sodding last! I thought you were going to keep this up. Good of you to admit when you're wrong.

[The Slider]

I always do.

Or at least I suppose I do.

I'll let you know if it ever happens.

[Google_[Bot]]

All the while missing the point that it is simply ugly use of the language.

Obviously it's a matter of opinion but you're wrong. As I've pointed out, there'd be sod all of the language left if you had your way and certainly half of the poetry would be gone. You think "The turn of the screw." is ugly English?

What makes you think that?
You are making a lot of assumptions.

Not really. I think you've explicitly said that you consider the use of words which you believe to be verbs as nouns is ugly (and lazy). In that sentence "turn" is a noun. The word is more commonly used as a verb.

You - and myriad others - may care to employ it thus.
I, and the upper orders who speak proper because it was them what invented it, will continue to shun the villanous use of the word 'drink' as a noun.

The upper orders did NOT invent English; in fact they spent hundreds of years speaking FRENCH. English was invented by smelly hordes of barbarians, many of whom settled in Middlesbrough.

While not doubting for one moment that smelly hoards settled in Middlesbrough, the formalisation of written English (a mixture, as i am sure you know, of the nobility's Norman and the Anglo-saxon of the common mud-dwellers) was indeed instituted in the Royal court.

Sigh. You really shouldn't go shouting off about these things when you don't know what you're talking about. English is English and French is French. English is not a mix of the two. Rather a lot of vocabulary entered English via the French-speaking Normans but sod all grammar. In general, when we have two words for something, the la-di-da one will be French. I haven't looked it up but I'm pretty sure that 'beverage' will be of French origin (or Latin which amounts to the same thing in the circumstances) while 'drink' will be the English word.
The thing is, there was a kind of battle between the two languages and English won (in England). They didn't mate and produce a hybrid. Just as it had done with Danish, English absorbed a lot of words and carried on being English. It wasn't really 'formalised' until Caxton and later (e.g. Johnstone's dictionary), and while Chaucer's work; printed by Caxton; was undoubtedly written in the court, it was written in the people's language. English. Not French. English as it was spoken by the people and not as formalised in the court. Because it never was. They were too busy speaking French.

It is, in its commonly used noun form, simply as shortening of 'a drink of...(whatever beverage one is talking about)'

Maybe, but I don't think so. The way you probably use it most (and I have NEVER heard you say "beverage") is to mean alcohol in general (uncountable) or an alcoholic drink (countable) but not necessarily specifying what type of drink.

As I said, I do occasionaly use it in noun form - though not actually all that often - and I use the word 'beverage' on an at least daily basis.

I've never heard you use it. That's all.

It's also commonly used to mean drinkable liquid in general ("I'm thirsty. I need a drink. What have you got"?) and in many collocations such as "long drink" or "soft drink".
Are you now going to pretend you think "soft beverage" sounds better? Go on! We can all have a good laugh at that.

It is (are you at some point going to get that I am not saying it isn't used as a noun, only that it shouldn't be?).

You actually quote me below saying that I understand this point. Not reading what I write is one thing, but not reading it and then quoting and commenting on it? It doesn't make any of the rest of this very credible, does it?

And "I'm thirsty. I need a drink" is a contraction of "I'm Thirsty. I need a drink of water or beer or whatever" - verb. It becomes noun through abbreviation - lazy, slovenly lower-orderness.

There's nothing wrong with contraction in pricipal anyway. I'm sure lots of people here wish we could make these posts a bit more concise. But you're wrong anyway as I quite explicitly pointed out in my example. You of course didn't quote the pertinent bit. You can ask for a drink of an unspecified liquid. You may not care whether it's water or beer or coca cola. It's just a 'drink'. There's no contraction involved.

And by the way, you increasingly irate and insolent tone is an obvious sign of your increasing desperation to prove a point you appear unwilling to realise I had conceded before you even joined this discussion - to whit, that yes verbs are often used as nouns.

I know you've conceded that verbs are used as nouns though that's not actually correct. The same word is often use as both a verb and a noun. Such as drink.

If you want to change a plug and cannot find a screwdriver, you may chose to use a knife to perform the operation.
It doesn't make the knife a screwdriver as much as you might use it as one.

Quite a nice analogy I admit. Unfortunately that's all it is; an analogy, and it doesn't actually work here. 'Drink' is a word whilst 'verb' and 'noun' are grammatical functions. If a word serves the purpose of naming something (whether it be an object, abstract or an action) then it's a noun. Unlike a knife, words don't have a primary purpose. A knife is shaped for a specific purpose even though it may be used for others. Words are not designed for gramatical function. They can go wherever we please. What is the word "sprank"? Verb or noun? Who knows. Unlike a knife it has no features which aid or limit its use in any given function. Not in English anyway.

You think that's a bad thing for some daft reason and I'm just pointing out that you're a turd brained dog's-bottom-sniffer for thinking and saying that.
That's all.
I have no wish to appear insolent or anything.

Ah, well that is different.
That then comes down to you conceding that it is a matter of aesthetics.
You are a vulgar oik from a farm or something, so you have a different value system to mine.

How dare you! I have no value system.

However you have refused to concede one point which isn't even a matter of opinion. It's a fact that "singing" is a noun.
In the sentence "I liked the singing and the costumes" there are two nouns and a pronoun. Can you see which ones they are? And in the sentence "Have a look at this", "look" is a noun.
This is not open to debate, it's a fact just like 1+1=2. If it serves the gramatical function of a noun then it is a noun by definition.

You are missing the point that the 'singing' is the action as well as the result of that action.

And 'liked' is a verb too.
Costume is indeed a noun - although, again it is often sometimes used as a verb.

I know that singing is the action (though I'm not sure how it's the result of the action). I've already pointed out several times that many nouns are the names of actions. Switch the words 'costume' and singing' in the example I gave and you'll see that the grammatical structure is the same. Because 'singing' is a noun.

I have never seen 'costume' used as a verb.

So is 'a look' that which is seen or that which sees?
It is a bit of an abstract concept if you ask me.
It is, though, the act of looking. That is for certain.

There are abstract nouns you know. Pretty well every noun ending in '-tion' is an abstract noun. I'm sure even posh folk like you use them because they're French in origin. 'look' is the action of looking.

You have a smelly arse.
Maybe you should go and sit in the haystack with macWurzel.

My cock's bigger than yours.

[bhoywonder]

You have a smelly arse.
Maybe you should go and sit in the haystack with macWurzel.

Yeah, come on over yer bignose, an us'll 'ave us sum soiders and laugh at sill old slider. He probably thinks hip hop isn't music an all. What a clown!

[souphound]

I haven't looked it up but I'm pretty sure that 'beverage' will be of French origin (or Latin which amounts to the same thing in the circumstances) while 'drink' will be the English word.

A "beverage" in English is the same as "un breuvage" in French. I would see "boisson" as equal to "drink" as well.

However, as to roots and other stuff that's too complicated for my non-nuclear scientist brain, I haven't the faintest clue.

[bhoywonder]

Scouse moron Kid Predictable refers to a drink as a glass if it's not a big one. As in

Me: "Fancy a pint, ya big scouse gaylord?"
Kid P: "Fab, gear, la', calm down, like, I'll just have a glass there la' as I can't take me drink."

In that sense, he uses glass to mean 'half pint', or New Musical Ex-Pres as we say in england, but correctly uses drink as a noun.

[Google_[Bot]]

I haven't looked it up but I'm pretty sure that 'beverage' will be of French origin (or Latin which amounts to the same thing in the circumstances) while 'drink' will be the English word.

A "beverage" in English is the same as "un breuvage" in French. I would see "boisson" as equal to "drink" as well.

However, as to roots and other stuff that's too complicated for my non-nuclear scientist brain, I haven't the faintest clue.

Thanks for that. The point I was making was that 'drink' probably existed in English as both a verb and a noun before 'beverage' entered the language. What you've said basically proves that.

[The Slider]

All the while missing the point that it is simply ugly use of the language.

Obviously it's a matter of opinion but you're wrong. As I've pointed out, there'd be sod all of the language left if you had your way and certainly half of the poetry would be gone. You think "The turn of the screw." is ugly English?

What makes you think that?
You are making a lot of assumptions.

Not really. I think you've explicitly said that you consider the use of words which you believe to be verbs as nouns is ugly (and lazy). In that sentence "turn" is a noun. The word is more commonly used as a verb.

I do not believe that the turn in The Turn of the Screw is a noun.

You - and myriad others - may care to employ it thus.
I, and the upper orders who speak proper because it was them what invented it, will continue to shun the villanous use of the word 'drink' as a noun.

The upper orders did NOT invent English; in fact they spent hundreds of years speaking FRENCH. English was invented by smelly hordes of barbarians, many of whom settled in Middlesbrough.

While not doubting for one moment that smelly hoards settled in Middlesbrough, the formalisation of written English (a mixture, as i am sure you know, of the nobility's Norman and the Anglo-saxon of the common mud-dwellers) was indeed instituted in the Royal court.

Sigh. You really shouldn't go shouting off about these things when you don't know what you're talking about. English is English and French is French. English is not a mix of the two.

Now actually this is an area where I am obviously more 'book-learned' than you are.
Firstly you seem to be a little confused here - English is not a mix of English and French?
Erm. No, it isn't. No one suggested so.
It is a hybrid language formed from Norman French and Anglo-saxon - a germanic derived tongue that was spoken amongt the Britons up until around about the 14th century.

Rather a lot of vocabulary entered English via the French-speaking Normans but sod all grammar. In general, when we have two words for something, the la-di-da one will be French. I haven't looked it up but I'm pretty sure that 'beverage' will be of French origin (or Latin which amounts to the same thing in the circumstances) while 'drink' will be the English word.
The thing is, there was a kind of battle between the two languages and English won (in England). They didn't mate and produce a hybrid. Just as it had done with Danish, English absorbed a lot of words and carried on being English. It wasn't really 'formalised' until Caxton and later (e.g. Johnstone's dictionary), and while Chaucer's work; printed by Caxton; was undoubtedly written in the court, it was written in the people's language. English. Not French. English as it was spoken by the people and not as formalised in the court. Because it never was. They were too busy speaking French.

Ok. I am not prepared to argue with you about it.
This is not a matter of anything but fact and anyone who knows anything at all about the matter knows that you have a bunch of half-right ideas put into a strange old mix of wrongness here.

It is, in its commonly used noun form, simply as shortening of 'a drink of...(whatever beverage one is talking about)'

Maybe, but I don't think so. The way you probably use it most (and I have NEVER heard you say "beverage") is to mean alcohol in general (uncountable) or an alcoholic drink (countable) but not necessarily specifying what type of drink.

As I said, I do occasionaly use it in noun form - though not actually all that often - and I use the word 'beverage' on an at least daily basis.

I've never heard you use it. That's all

Ah, well I suppose I musn't then.

It's also commonly used to mean drinkable liquid in general ("I'm thirsty. I need a drink. What have you got"?) and in many collocations such as "long drink" or "soft drink".
Are you now going to pretend you think "soft beverage" sounds better? Go on! We can all have a good laugh at that.

It is (are you at some point going to get that I am not saying it isn't used as a noun, only that it shouldn't be?).

You actually quote me below saying that I understand this point. Not reading what I write is one thing, but not reading it and then quoting and commenting on it? It doesn't make any of the rest of this very credible, does it?

The key word here is below, isn't it?
I quoted that after answering this particular point.
And you do give every indication in the above statement that you don't get that point.

And "I'm thirsty. I need a drink" is a contraction of "I'm Thirsty. I need a drink of water or beer or whatever" - verb. It becomes noun through abbreviation - lazy, slovenly lower-orderness.

There's nothing wrong with contraction in pricipal anyway. I'm sure lots of people here wish we could make these posts a bit more concise. But you're wrong anyway as I quite explicitly pointed out in my example. You of course didn't quote the pertinent bit. You can ask for a drink of an unspecified liquid. You may not care whether it's water or beer or coca cola. It's just a 'drink'. There's no contraction involved.

Spurious. You are simply using the Skip Spence method now.
"a drink of something" if it were not specific.

And by the way, you increasingly irate and insolent tone is an obvious sign of your increasing desperation to prove a point you appear unwilling to realise I had conceded before you even joined this discussion - to whit, that yes verbs are often used as nouns.

I know you've conceded that verbs are used as nouns though that's not actually correct. The same word is often use as both a verb and a noun. Such as drink.

If you want to change a plug and cannot find a screwdriver, you may chose to use a knife to perform the operation.
It doesn't make the knife a screwdriver as much as you might use it as one.

Quite a nice analogy I admit. Unfortunately that's all it is; an analogy, and it doesn't actually work here.

Yes it does,
Words are tools in exactly the same way that screwdrivers are.

'Drink' is a word whilst 'verb' and 'noun' are grammatical functions. If a word serves the purpose of naming something (whether it be an object, abstract or an action) then it's a noun. Unlike a knife, words don't have a primary purpose.

Spurious - and inaccurate.
Words do have a primary purpose - to communicate.

A knife is shaped for a specific purpose even though it may be used for others. Words are not designed for gramatical function.

This is non sequitur.
A knife is a tool that is used for cutting things
A verb is a tool that is used for communicating an action.

You can use a knife for other purposes - such as screwing a plug.
You can use a verb for other purposes - such as communcating the product or concept of that action.

It is still a verb, as it is still a knife, that has been used for that purpose.

They can go wherever we please. What is the word "sprank"? Verb or noun? Who knows. Unlike a knife it has no features which aid or limit its use in any given function. Not in English anyway.

It is limited by the fact that we do not know what it means. It is therefore useless as it communicates nothing.
In the same way if we do not know in what way we can use the knife it is also useless.

You think that's a bad thing for some daft reason and I'm just pointing out that you're a turd brained dog's-bottom-sniffer for thinking and saying that.
That's all.
I have no wish to appear insolent or anything.

Ah, well that is different.
That then comes down to you conceding that it is a matter of aesthetics.
You are a vulgar oik from a farm or something, so you have a different value system to mine.

How dare you! I have no value system.

Good point, well made.

However you have refused to concede one point which isn't even a matter of opinion. It's a fact that "singing" is a noun.
In the sentence "I liked the singing and the costumes" there are two nouns and a pronoun. Can you see which ones they are? And in the sentence "Have a look at this", "look" is a noun.
This is not open to debate, it's a fact just like 1+1=2. If it serves the gramatical function of a noun then it is a noun by definition.

You are missing the point that the 'singing' is the action as well as the result of that action.

And 'liked' is a verb too.
Costume is indeed a noun - although, again it is often sometimes used as a verb.

I know that singing is the action (though I'm not sure how it's the result of the action).

When the woman in question sings, she produces what you (though I would never) might call 'some singing'

I've already pointed out several times that many nouns are the names of actions. Switch the words 'costume' and singing' in the example I gave and you'll see that the grammatical structure is the same. Because 'singing' is a noun.

I have never seen 'costume' used as a verb.

You have never read of someone "costumed in their finery" for example?

So is 'a look' that which is seen or that which sees?
It is a bit of an abstract concept if you ask me.
It is, though, the act of looking. That is for certain.

There are abstract nouns you know. Pretty well every noun ending in '-tion' is an abstract noun. I'm sure even posh folk like you use them because they're French in origin. 'look' is the action of looking.

But what is it when you use it as a noun?

You have a smelly arse.
Maybe you should go and sit in the haystack with macWurzel.

My cock's bigger than yours.

It needs to be. Otherwise it would be dwarfed by the sheer amount of bollocks coming from your direction.

[The Midnight Special]

Re. glasses/half pints : I think I'm right in saying that anyone who orders a glass of Guinness in Ireland receives a half.

[bhoywonder]

A knife is a tool that is used for cutting things
A verb is a tool that is used for communicating an action.

You can use a knife for other purposes - such as screwing a plug.
You can use a verb for other purposes - such as communcating the product or concept of that action.

It is still a verb, as it is still a knife, that has been used for that purpose.

My dog has four legs. My cat has four legs. Therefore, my cat is my dog.

[The Slider]

Do you have anything but sheep in your field?



Actually the better (or should I say 'even remotely analogous') analogy here would be:

My cat has four legs and uses them for walking.
My dog has four legs and uses them for walking.
Whichever the fuck one is the other, their legs are still used for walking.

[Diamond Dog]

A knife is a tool that is used for cutting things
A verb is a tool that is used for communicating an action.

You can use a knife for other purposes - such as screwing a plug.
You can use a verb for other purposes - such as communcating the product or concept of that action.

It is still a verb, as it is still a knife, that has been used for that purpose.

My dog has four legs. My cat has four legs. Therefore, my cat is my dog.

In your part of the world, it wouldn't be all together surprising.

[bhoywonder]

A knife is a tool that is used for cutting things
A verb is a tool that is used for communicating an action.

You can use a knife for other purposes - such as screwing a plug.
You can use a verb for other purposes - such as communcating the product or concept of that action.

It is still a verb, as it is still a knife, that has been used for that purpose.

My dog has four legs. My cat has four legs. Therefore, my cat is my dog.

In your part of the world, it wouldn't be all together surprising.

Oh aye? Cause there's no bumpkins in Oxfordshire, of course!

[The Slider]

and into the Treasury for the Dog.

[Diamond Dog]

and into the Treasury for the Dog.

Eye thang-yew!

[bhoywonder]

Do you have anything but sheep in your field?



Actually the better (or should I say 'even remotely analogous') analogy here would be:

My cat has four legs and uses them for walking.
My dog has four legs and uses them for walking.
Whichever the fuck one is the other, their legs are still used for walking.

No it wouldn't. Anyway, it is bollocks, what you speak. If you change the word verb for he word word and the word knife for the word swiss army knife then it means the exact opposite. Nothing you've said proves anything. Other than that you're a bigger idiot than even I took you for.

What about fight? Verb and noun, says I. As in, I'm going beat you up in a fight, kncoking all the fight out of you through fighting.

[Diamond Dog]

No it wouldn't. Anyway, it is bollocks, what you speak. If you change the word verb for he word word and the word knife for the word swiss army knife then it means the exact opposite. Nothing you've said proves anything. Other than that you're a bigger idiot than even I took you for.

What about fight? Verb and noun, says I. As in, I'm going beat you up in a fight, *kncoking all the fight out of you through fighting.

* Brizzle for snorting class A drugs.

[bhoywonder]

In your face, mr fuckin ticket collector!