Punk

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bhoywonder
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Punk

Postby bhoywonder » 16 Jan 2006, 15:05

I was too young to know about punk at the time and have never really investigated it much. What's the first punk records then? What was the difference between UK and US punk? Were they related or just two completely different movements around the same time. Did punk come about as a reaction to prog, or disco or both, more, neither?

In short, what was punk all about? I'm interested in it more from a cultural point of view than a musical one.

Johnny Fartpants

Re: Punk

Postby Johnny Fartpants » 16 Jan 2006, 15:15

*Cant decide whether this is a wind up or not ...*

:(

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bhoywonder
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Re: Punk

Postby bhoywonder » 16 Jan 2006, 15:17

Johnny Fartpants wrote:*Cant decide whether this is a wind up or not ...*

:(


No, it's just an area I don't really understand. I'm unlikely to suddenly decide that I like the Sex Pistols, but one of the things that I find most interesting about periods in music is understanding (or trying to) the social surrounds and reasons for different fields of music. After all, pop reflects society and vice versa.

Tell me about it.

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Count Machuki
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Re: Punk

Postby Count Machuki » 16 Jan 2006, 15:23

bhoywonder wrote: After all, pop reflects society and vice versa.

Tell me about it.


this film might answer some of yr questions:

Image

there's one in the history of rock & roll series that might be informative as well.

punk was great when i was younger. now it leaves me cold.
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D

Johnny Fartpants

Re: Punk

Postby Johnny Fartpants » 16 Jan 2006, 15:24

I was never really into the Politics and social situation at the time. For me it was all about the music. In the Mid-70's the charts were full of bloated shite like 10CC, Chicago, REO Speedwagon, and Prog bollocks like Yes, Pink Floyd etc. Punk was a short sharp "up yours" to all of that.

The first recognised UK Punk single was New Rose by the Damned in August 1976 and first Punk album was the Damned's debut album in February 1977. (I think the dates are right).

Somebody else can give you the politics stuff.

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The Prof
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Re: Punk

Postby The Prof » 16 Jan 2006, 15:28

bhoywonder wrote:I was too young to know about punk at the time and have never really investigated it much. What's the first punk records then? What was the difference between UK and US punk? Were they related or just two completely different movements around the same time. Did punk come about as a reaction to prog, or disco or both, more, neither?

In short, what was punk all about? I'm interested in it more from a cultural point of view than a musical one.


This had better be a wind-up otherwise I'll never trust anything you say ever again.

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bhoywonder
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Re: Punk

Postby bhoywonder » 16 Jan 2006, 15:39

The Prof wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:I was too young to know about punk at the time and have never really investigated it much. What's the first punk records then? What was the difference between UK and US punk? Were they related or just two completely different movements around the same time. Did punk come about as a reaction to prog, or disco or both, more, neither?

In short, what was punk all about? I'm interested in it more from a cultural point of view than a musical one.


This had better be a wind-up otherwise I'll never trust anything you say ever again.


I don't see why. It seems a perfectly reasonable way to start a thread to me.

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Postby JQW » 16 Jan 2006, 15:41

It can't be Friday afternoon already, can it?
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. - Bertrand Russell

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Re: Punk

Postby bhoywonder » 16 Jan 2006, 15:43

Johnny Fartpants wrote:I was never really into the Politics and social situation at the time. For me it was all about the music. In the Mid-70's the charts were full of bloated shite like 10CC, Chicago, REO Speedwagon, and Prog bollocks like Yes, Pink Floyd etc. Punk was a short sharp "up yours" to all of that.

The first recognised UK Punk single was New Rose by the Damned in August 1976 and first Punk album was the Damned's debut album in February 1977. (I think the dates are right).

Somebody else can give you the politics stuff.


So when did you first hear these records, and where? Was it all abit like that lennon quote "Before there was Elvis, there was nothing."? Although obviously without the Elvis bit...

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Postby JQW » 16 Jan 2006, 15:49

Punk happened when I was at primary school, and I can't remember much about it. I can remember the likes of ABBA, Leo Sayer and Wings having big hits, but no real punk. The chart run-down was on the radio every Sunday without fail, so we were not really exposed to it. Did the chart run down not play things like God Save The Queen, then?

I think my first exposure to The Sex Pistols was when Something Else hit the charts and a video appeared on Top Of The Pops.

I do remember pretending to be punk with my sister, banging a tin wastebasket and a toy guitar whilst schreeching.
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. - Bertrand Russell

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Count Machuki
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Postby Count Machuki » 16 Jan 2006, 15:52

JQW wrote:
I do remember pretending to be punk with my sister, banging a tin wastebasket and a toy guitar whilst schreeching.



*cough*
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D

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andymacandy
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Postby andymacandy » 16 Jan 2006, 15:52

I remember seeing the Pistols on the telly, and gradually punks became more common.It was just another fad, that Christmas, and grew as such, but developed into something more serious.
To me, it didnt seem like any kind of true musical revolution, because there were other bands around, that Id heard, that were doing stuff that sounded kind of like it -MC5,Iggy,Ramones et al.
The big difference that I saw was that the kids at my school suddenly thought "Hey, I could do that",and did.
I think that will be punks enduring legacy-that folks without music degrees and grand pianos suddenly realised it was perfectly okay to make rough and ready fun music, record it on a four track and release it.
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The Great DeFector

Postby The Great DeFector » 16 Jan 2006, 15:54

andymacandy wrote:I think that will be punks enduring legacy-that folks without music degrees and grand pianos suddenly realised it was perfectly okay to make rough and ready fun music, record it on a four track and release it.


problem is, although it's great in theory and as an ideal, most of it was shite! OI anyone?

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Postby bhoywonder » 16 Jan 2006, 15:56

andymacandy wrote:I remember seeing the Pistols on the telly, and gradually punks became more common.It was just another fad, that Christmas, and grew as such, but developed into something more serious.
To me, it didnt seem like any kind of true musical revolution, because there were other bands around, that Id heard, that were doing stuff that sounded kind of like it -MC5,Iggy,Ramones et al.
The big difference that I saw was that the kids at my school suddenly thought "Hey, I could do that",and did.
I think that will be punks enduring legacy-that folks without music degrees and grand pianos suddenly realised it was perfectly okay to make rough and ready fun music, record it on a four track and release it.


So, in many ways, punk was just that generation's version of rock'n'roll then?

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Postby Tactful Cactus » 16 Jan 2006, 15:57

bhoywonder wrote:So, in many ways, punk was just that generation's version of rock'n'roll then?


Fuck me, even I know that! Bhoy, did you bang your head?

Johnny Fartpants

Re: Punk

Postby Johnny Fartpants » 16 Jan 2006, 16:01

bhoywonder wrote:
Johnny Fartpants wrote:I was never really into the Politics and social situation at the time. For me it was all about the music. In the Mid-70's the charts were full of bloated shite like 10CC, Chicago, REO Speedwagon, and Prog bollocks like Yes, Pink Floyd etc. Punk was a short sharp "up yours" to all of that.

The first recognised UK Punk single was New Rose by the Damned in August 1976 and first Punk album was the Damned's debut album in February 1977. (I think the dates are right).

Somebody else can give you the politics stuff.


So when did you first hear these records, and where? Was it all abit like that lennon quote "Before there was Elvis, there was nothing."? Although obviously without the Elvis bit...


I'd be lying if I said I was a Punk from day one kind of thing ... bear in mind I was only 10 years old when the Damned released New Rose. And I'd also be lying if I said that Punk was my first musical love. My mother always tells me I was very musical at an early stage. My first love was Slade, Sweet and T-Rex, the whole Glam Rock thing. One thing I can say honestly is that I was always a "Rock Kid" ... it was loud, fast rock music that first grabbed my attention, particularly Slade.

I can't pinpoint exactly when I first became fully aware of Punk, but it was in 1977 and Pretty Vacant, with the broken picture frame cover, was the first 7" single I went to a shop and bought with my own money. I remember becoming quickly aware of the Pistols, The Clash, The Stranglers, The Jam, The Damned and the Buzzcocks.

Punk remains the biggest single musical and cultural influence on me. I can't see that changing.

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Postby bhoywonder » 16 Jan 2006, 16:06

Tactful Cactus wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:So, in many ways, punk was just that generation's version of rock'n'roll then?


Fuck me, even I know that! Bhoy, did you bang your head?


Well, I'm kind of unsure exactly what happened, what it was like to be there at the ime. So I thought I'd start a thread about it, get people's opinions and memories. So you're saying that it was just their rock'n'roll, nothing more to it than that? Fine.

Obviously I shouldn't have bothered judging by most of the responses.

Bungo the Mungo

Re: Punk

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 16 Jan 2006, 16:10

count machuki wrote:
bhoywonder wrote: After all, pop reflects society and vice versa.

Tell me about it.


this film might answer some of yr questions:

Image

there's one in the history of rock & roll series that might be informative as well.

punk was great when i was younger. now it leaves me cold.


He's right about the film. It's a great piece of social commentary that leaves the chat to those who were there and who have something to say. The academics are, thankfully, left out of this one.

And it'll hold your attention throughout. Unlike that recent 'Punk:Attitude' shambles which is good for only its first 30 minutes. And if you don't like hardcore - i.e. you're an individual with a brain - then avoid this like the plague.

Punk's influences were the best music ever made. It's that simple. Stooges, VU, New York Dolls, The Creation, T. Rex, Roxy, Bowie... Punk took all this stuff, bleached it of all colour and tone, knocked off about 50 IQ points, and voila. And it ended up as a bunch of idiots looking for a fight.

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Postby andymacandy » 16 Jan 2006, 16:11

bhoywonder wrote:
andymacandy wrote:I remember seeing the Pistols on the telly, and gradually punks became more common.It was just another fad, that Christmas, and grew as such, but developed into something more serious.
To me, it didnt seem like any kind of true musical revolution, because there were other bands around, that Id heard, that were doing stuff that sounded kind of like it -MC5,Iggy,Ramones et al.
The big difference that I saw was that the kids at my school suddenly thought "Hey, I could do that",and did.
I think that will be punks enduring legacy-that folks without music degrees and grand pianos suddenly realised it was perfectly okay to make rough and ready fun music, record it on a four track and release it.


So, in many ways, punk was just that generation's version of rock'n'roll then?

I guess so.Its just speeded up rockabilly riffs anyway, mostly.
As I said, I never really saw it as overthrowing the old guard, because it came along at about the same time I was getting beyond the charts into album music, so I grew up with it as just another style of music, rather than a revolution.
I do remember being quite intimidated by punks wearing safety pins and such.That seemed really hard, and I thought their sneering"dont give a fuck about anything" attitude was a bit scarey too.Most of it was just front though.
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Postby Maxwell's Golden Pickaxe » 16 Jan 2006, 16:13

bhoywonder wrote:
Tactful Cactus wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:So, in many ways, punk was just that generation's version of rock'n'roll then?


Fuck me, even I know that! Bhoy, did you bang your head?


Well, I'm kind of unsure exactly what happened, what it was like to be there at the ime. So I thought I'd start a thread about it, get people's opinions and memories. So you're saying that it was just their rock'n'roll, nothing more to it than that? Fine.

Obviously I shouldn't have bothered judging by most of the responses.


I think it's just that many know that the British punk movement of the late 70s can be traced back through the New York scene of a couple of years before, then back to the MC5/Stooges, through the Velvet Underground, via the 'Nuggets' garage bands, and all the way back to Elvis Presley and Chuck Berry.
I just watched this last night and it gives a nice evolutionary overview.

Image