Listening to new music, a youthful pursuit only?

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LeBaron
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Postby LeBaron » 29 Dec 2005, 12:33

Bleep wrote:2005 has been a revelatory year for me with music, not least with classical.


Me too. But then again, if one listens close enough, they all should be.
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Postby Sambient » 29 Dec 2005, 12:42

What Baron is this? wrote:
Bleep wrote:2005 has been a revelatory year for me with music, not least with classical.


Me too. But then again, if one listens close enough, they all should be.


Indeed. And in fallow years, with the access to things that we have in this era, there's the past to be mined, other cultures, other genres of which to explore the history. I think this is a point goldwax was making in a thread he created some time ago asking if you could have the contents of all the releases a great cd store had but never get any music released after that point, would you take it? There's much to investigate.

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Postby Thesiger » 29 Dec 2005, 13:24

Another reason why many people stop listening to new music is that the new stuff is just not as good as the old stuff. In any area of popular culture there are bound to be peaks and troughs, innovators and experiments, golden years and fallow passages. The golden age of pop music was the 60s and 70s. The Beatles, Beach Boys, Stones, Dylan, Who, Zeppelin, Byrds, Joni, and so on, were the innovators around whom that achievement was built.

This doesn't mean that nothing of worth came out in the 50s, 80s or 90s. Or that no one is releasing great stuff today. Nor does it mean that you have to be old to appreciate the cultural highpoints of the sixties and seventies. It's a question of discrimination, perspective and taste. Popular culture venerates the shock of the new. Since Elvis in 1956 it's become progressively harder to achieve that shock impact.

How much of the output of today's new acts will still be listened to in fifty years time? Not a lot. Contrast this with how much of the classic rock and pop output above will still be appreciated in 2020. History will be the judge, and my money's on the latter.
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Postby Ray K. » 29 Dec 2005, 13:31

Frosty Thesiger wrote:How much of the output of today's new acts will still be listened to in fifty years time? Not a lot. Contrast this with how much of the classic rock and pop output above will still be appreciated in 2020. History will be the judge, and my money's on the latter.


But hasn't history passed judgement on most of that material? I'm sure there was quite a bit of garbage that was released contemporarily with the "classics" that has been forgotten and deliberately discarded (I wasn't there). The current crop has yet to go through such a pruning. While the majority will most likely fade into obscurity the proverbial creme will rise to the top and should be embraced by generations to come.

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Postby -- » 29 Dec 2005, 13:35

Frosty Thesiger wrote:Another reason why many people stop listening to new music is that the new stuff is just not as good as the old stuff.


How can you possibly know that if you've never heard it, ffs?

:roll:

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Postby Sambient » 29 Dec 2005, 13:37

Frosty Thesiger wrote:Another reason why many people stop listening to new music is that the new stuff is just not as good as the old stuff.


Sorry, that to me is like giving up having sex because you've already had your best romps.

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Postby yomptepi » 29 Dec 2005, 13:41

I suppose my period was between 72- 80. Of course, all the great albums of the sixties were a part of my youth as well, but i think there is very little good music made after 1977...the occaisional flurry of creativity.Smiths, Bunnymen, but nothing at all to get excited about...until about three years ago. I think this is really exciting time to be interested in new music. Bands like Sigur Ros, Godspeed you Black Emperor, and all their affiliates, The new american Folk artists...Bright eyes, Iron and wine, Calexico, Sufjan Stevens. Some grerat new pop music too...the Wrens, Rogue wave, to name just two.

and it just keeps on coming. This has been a great year, and i feel it has repaid the efforts I have made to listen to new releases. Richard hawley, Explosions in the sky, Spoon. All good , and nothing bad as far as I concerned. With BCB, Soulseek, and people like nathan, DGS and Specbebop to guide me, things have never been better. It just needs a bit of effort.
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Postby Toby » 29 Dec 2005, 13:49

Apologies - edit.

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Postby Thesiger » 29 Dec 2005, 13:52

Ray K. wrote:
Frosty Thesiger wrote:How much of the output of today's new acts will still be listened to in fifty years time? Not a lot. Contrast this with how much of the classic rock and pop output above will still be appreciated in 2020. History will be the judge, and my money's on the latter.


But hasn't history passed judgement on most of that material? I'm sure there was quite a bit of garbage that was released contemporarily with the "classics" that has been forgotten and deliberately discarded (I wasn't there). The current crop has yet to go through such a pruning. While the majority will most likely fade into obscurity the proverbial creme will rise to the top and should be embraced by generations to come.


Sure - it will indeed. And you can make your own guesses as to how much of it will stick around for posterity after the critical filter of history sieves the product.

The constant focus in popular culture on the new fills the airwaves and the magazines with recent product and eschews the out-of-date. The dictates of consumerism don't care about history and legacy. It doesn't mean that the new is as good, or as innovative or as worthy as what has gone before, however.
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Postby automatic_drip » 29 Dec 2005, 14:09

Here's the dilemma (for me at least).

I'm still constantly searching for a new visceral listening experience. So much so that I've spent the last year looking backwards rather than forwards. Posts on this board are invaluable signposts for things to look for...

Case in point - old soul music. I love the melody, the narrative, the feeling, and most of all the organic production sounds. I love Aretha, and she's a stunning singer, but I know it all like the back of my hand. So I search out soul comps like Deep Soul Treasures, Soul Jazz and the Numero Group reissues to get that first time feeling again - but it's getting harder to find those experiences. The effort and expense to keep getting that feeling is getting harder to justify every year.

We're junkies, and this discussion (for me) is more about diminishing returns than the fact that my mind is closing and my heart is dying of atrophy....

Why would I listen to Interpol or Bloc Party when I already had that POW moment with Go4, etc? Been there, done that to death. Fine for the kids though.
Only time will tell if we stand the test of time.... - Sammy Hagar

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Postby Superdans » 29 Dec 2005, 14:33

Some excellent post thus far.

Personally, I don't worry about the era of music I play and enjoy. At 23, I get as much pleasure hearing a Johnny Cash record as I do hearing One Thing by Amerie.
Doesn't matter if an album is from 1955 or 2005, if it's good, it's in my collection.
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Postby PENK » 29 Dec 2005, 15:23

automatic_drip wrote:Why would I listen to Interpol or Bloc Party when I already had that POW moment with Go4, etc? Been there, done that to death. Fine for the kids though.


Well, I tried.
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Postby automatic_drip » 29 Dec 2005, 15:29

Penk Ref 41°N 93°W wrote:
automatic_drip wrote:Why would I listen to Interpol or Bloc Party when I already had that POW moment with Go4, etc? Been there, done that to death. Fine for the kids though.


Well, I tried.


Yes you did! I'm serious when I say that I appreciate it.

I did listen to those records, and they didn't impact me at all. No big thing. Doesn't mean they're bad, doesn't mean that I'm closed minded, they just didn't move me.
Only time will tell if we stand the test of time.... - Sammy Hagar

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Postby PENK » 29 Dec 2005, 15:33

automatic_drip wrote:
Penk Ref 41°N 93°W wrote:
automatic_drip wrote:Why would I listen to Interpol or Bloc Party when I already had that POW moment with Go4, etc? Been there, done that to death. Fine for the kids though.


Well, I tried.


Yes you did! I'm serious when I say that I appreciate it.

I did listen to those records, and they didn't impact me at all. No big thing. Doesn't mean they're bad, doesn't mean that I'm closed minded, they just didn't move me.


But my point was that bands like that are just the tip of the iceberg - the successful, mainstream acts that only represent a tiny minority of music that's out there today. There's a hell of a lot of other stuff that doesn't take its cues from Gang of Four or Nirvana, that has original and fresh ideas and a sound all of its own, and it's the fact that people don't take this into consideration that bothers me. It's OK to explain a lack of interest as being down to overkill - either that there's too much choice, or you already have more music than you could ever listen to - but it bugs me that people dismiss new stuff they aren't aware of.
Copehead wrote:I have met Gruff Rhys - although he claimed he wasn't and that he couldn't speak Welsh, as I spoke to him in Welsh, but it was him lying bastard.

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Postby sloopjohnc » 29 Dec 2005, 17:19

I don't wanna come off like a know-it-all musical Dad. i also think this thread relates to Penk's other about The Stones, Who, etc. and how he doesn't listen to them. If I'm citing incorrectly, please clarify.

I don't think not having a use for bands like that is bad. I do, however, think it limits folks as interested in pop music as us to know the contextual basis for stuff, whether it's Kurt Cobain covering a Leadbelly song, or the Killers full-scale rip-off of the Cure, or Hip sampling Bootsy or Kool and the Gang bass riffs. Dre's been living off his mom's record collection for years.

This is a weird time for rock, and has been for a few years, because rock music is now the province of parents and kids. My parents were born in the 20's and big band was their musical choice. They %$#ing hated Led Zeppelin and AC/DC. My dad pounding his foot upstairs as his signal to turn the music down in my bedroom was the best vindication and validity I needed. That is no longer true and BCB is evidence. I've been living off Iam's yr-end hip-hop list for the last 2 weeks.

I can get into Gwen Stefani (yes, it's new music---maybe not the coolest and most obscure) as much as my nine year old. But. . . she doesn't see the Madonna similarities. Nor does she need to in her case.

Although it will be interesting to see in ten years though when Penk is posting his "Arcade Fire-5 best songs" will my daughter be thinking, "Arcade Fire---what old skool." Ya never know.

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Postby Quaco » 29 Dec 2005, 18:41

Sambient wrote:
Frosty Thesiger wrote:Another reason why many people stop listening to new music is that the new stuff is just not as good as the old stuff.


Sorry, that to me is like giving up having sex because you've already had your best romps.

Or maybe it's like remaining faithful to your old wife/husband because, even though there are all these young things running around, no one does it quite like her/him.....
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Postby the masked man » 29 Dec 2005, 18:46

I'd just like to say that all these posts suggesting that the 60s and 70s were the 'golden age' and that there's nothing to get really excited about since have had one effect on me.

I now only want to hear new music next year.

Actually, Penk got it right with one thing - more than the Go4 wannabes, it's the dreary bunch of singer-songwriters that turn up on free magazine CDs that really turn me off new music*. Avoid these, and I reckon I can have some fun with what's around now.

*although I do like Sufjan Stevens - maybe I can treat him as a "guilty pleasure"

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Postby sloopjohnc » 29 Dec 2005, 19:18

Older artists are putting out some of their very best albums in recent years---Joe Strummer (RIP), Wire, Echo and the Bunnymen and while not a genre favorite of BCB it seems, so-called Americana artists like Marty Stewart with All Souls' Chapel are creating really great work that shouldn't be missed.

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Postby PENK » 29 Dec 2005, 19:43

sloopjohnc wrote:I don't wanna come off like a know-it-all musical Dad. i also think this thread relates to Penk's other about The Stones, Who, etc. and how he doesn't listen to them. If I'm citing incorrectly, please clarify.

I don't think not having a use for bands like that is bad. I do, however, think it limits folks as interested in pop music as us to know the contextual basis for stuff, whether it's Kurt Cobain covering a Leadbelly song, or the Killers full-scale rip-off of the Cure, or Hip sampling Bootsy or Kool and the Gang bass riffs. Dre's been living off his mom's record collection for years.


That's pretty spot on, to be honest. I think the big difference - and what possibly means that the answer to the original question, in many cases, is going to be a resounding 'yes', is that we've all started in different places. The first music you hear is always going to be the popular music of your own childhood, and as a result you'll come to expect different things from music. Having been brought up on musical that's more advanced, technologically and conceptually - both inside and outside the sphere of 'popular' music or mainstream rock - I find older stuff like the Stones a little dull. It just sounds a lot less expansive, like they're working with a certain set of confines as far as the sound goes. But for someone who was inducted into the world of music by bands like that, they're going to hear new music as being derivative or just plain weird, in a lot of cases. And I can accept this perfectly happily. Like I said, it's just when people don't give the new stuff a proper chance that I get annoyed.
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Postby moonie » 29 Dec 2005, 19:55

Sambient wrote:
Frosty Thesiger wrote:Another reason why many people stop listening to new music is that the new stuff is just not as good as the old stuff.


Sorry, that to me is like giving up having sex because you've already had your best romps.


Some would call it marriage...

I would hope in this lifetime that I never stop listening to new music. I only come away from a new listening experience keeping about 10% of what I've heard, but it makes me feel less old to keep up with new bands.