Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

[Shagger Dave]

I'd throw in Phil Spector. Before him, people didn't conceive of the studio as instrument or producer as artist. Plus, he inspired the Beatles, Beach Boys and many others on down the line.

Good call. While we're on the non-performer tip, I'll nominte Sam Phillips. Despite the obvious mention of who he recorded for the first (Elvis, Johnny Cash, et al) the fact is that he helped merge white and black musics together just by giving people a place and venue to record and create. Sun Record is pretty much ground zero for rock & roll.

[Heilan Coo]

Would the british punk scene have happened without the Pistols?

And would they have happened without Talcy Malcy?

I get the feeling that punk would have happened had the Pistols not been around, but it would have been a muted, almost underground scene. The punk explosion of '76-'77 in this country was in a large part down to the impact the Pistols made, no doubt about it.

Sure, there were other punk bands emerging at the same time of the Pistols, but I think many of the bands that emerged in following years were directly influenced/inspired by the Pistols. Granted, of this glut of bands, a lot of them were pish.

I'd put Maclaren up there with Elvis and Dylan for that reason, and wouldn't the little weasel just love that.

Like Elvis, Beatles and Dylan; Punk was a key moment in british ( at first ), and then western music, and I don't know if it would have happened without Maclaren.

I see what you're getting at, and there's no doubt that McLaren played a pivotal role in the evolution of punk in the UK (as I'm sure he'd tell anyone who'd listen... ), but there were bands like the Clash and the Damned coming through at the same time.

Punk would have existed, but it wouldn't have been as "mainstream", for want of a better word.

[copehead]

I agree, but would go further, it would have been a small underground scene.

These people would all have tried to start bands anyway, but it would have been fragmented and small scale without the outrage and enthusiasm generated by the Pistols, and hence Talcy Malcy is one of the top 10 most important people in the history of rock music.

What a truly horrifying thought.

[Diamond Dog]

Anyone from the rap/hip hop scene deserving of mention? Dr Dre? Grandmaster Flash?

[Shagger Dave]

Anyone from the rap/hip hop scene deserving of mention? Dr Dre? Grandmaster Flash?

Grandmaster Flash and Kool Herc for being basically the first rap acts. I think Public Enemy deserves mention for injecting politics into the mix, and dare I say, the Beastie Boys. Coming of age in white suburbia in the 1980s rap didn't break into the overall conscousness of kids until License To Ill came out. Ganted that record isn't the Beasties best work but it succeeded (I think) in getting white kids deeper into the music.

[Cup of Char]

I think we could mention Love here, for they are responsible for a whole part of both american & british late 60's pop music, I guess.
If I remember well, Sid Barrett was found of Forever Changes, as well as other artists who made influencial "psychedelic" groups.
& I agree with the Ramones having been essential in the developpement of punk music. But then I think that the Stooges came first & really opened doors. As far as I can remember, Dee Dee Ramone was a Stooges fan.

[Diamond Dog]

Not sure Love were that important/influential Char - they certainly have had an impact, but I think they were one of many (Jefferson Airplane, spring to mind).

Shagger Dave said:


Grandmaster Flash and Kool Herc for being basically the first rap acts. I think Public Enemy deserves mention for injecting politics into the mix, and dare I say, the Beastie Boys. Coming of age in white suburbia in the 1980s rap didn't break into the overall conscousness of kids until License To Ill came out. Ganted that record isn't the Beasties best work but it succeeded (I think) in getting white kids deeper into the music.
----------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, i'm thinking Grandmaster flash & (maybe) Public Enemy. They certainly did stuff that changed the musical landscape. But were they the first? I'm not sure.

[Heilan Coo]

I agree with the Ramones having been essential in the developpement of punk music. But then I think that the Stooges came first & really opened doors. As far as I can remember, Dee Dee Ramone was a Stooges fan.

Very true. I suppose, up to a point, the same could be said about the New York Dolls too.

[Cup of Char]

Kraftwerk - The only really new thing (post 'rock) has been synthesised, beat driven music. All hip hop owes a great deal to Kraftwerk - without their dedication to making 'non rock' music, it couldn't have happened.

OK with the hip-hop thing. But what wouldn't have happened without them is the whole electronic music the way it sounds nowadays, from drum'n'bass to electronica. Bands like Mouse On Mars, Panasonic, Autechre & Aphex Twin (for instance) owe a lot to Kraftwerk.

[Diamond Dog]

Kraftwerk - The only really new thing (post 'rock) has been synthesised, beat driven music. All hip hop owes a great deal to Kraftwerk - without their dedication to making 'non rock' music, it couldn't have happened.

OK with the hip-hop thing. But what wouldn't have happened without them is the whole electronic music the way it sounds nowadays, from drum'n'bass to electronica. Bands like Mouse On Mars, Panasonic, Autechre & Aphex Twin (for instance) owe a lot to Kraftwerk.

Merely emphasising my point Char. Of course, Kraftwerk's influence is huge. It's one of the things this site made me realise.

[Cup of Char]

Kraftwerk - The only really new thing (post 'rock) has been synthesised, beat driven music. All hip hop owes a great deal to Kraftwerk - without their dedication to making 'non rock' music, it couldn't have happened.

OK with the hip-hop thing. But what wouldn't have happened without them is the whole electronic music the way it sounds nowadays, from drum'n'bass to electronica. Bands like Mouse On Mars, Panasonic, Autechre & Aphex Twin (for instance) owe a lot to Kraftwerk.

Merely emphasising my point Char.

Exactly what I intended to to...

Of course, Kraftwerk's influence is huge. It's one of the things this site made me realise.

That's what's strange with them. They really are influential & essential, but they are not that famous & listened to nawadays, even among people who really like & know music. It might be because the electronic sounds have evolve very much in the last 30 years, & their essential records date from the 70's. So some of the potential listeners find them too dated to be listened to. It's just an attempt to explain why they are a little less famous than they could be...

[JQW]

Les Paul - not for the guitar that bears his name, but for multi-track recording. He made his first experiments before acquiring a tape recorder, instead recording direct to shellac.

[Billybob Dylan]

The Beatles - Took that fan adulation but allayed it with quite stupendous songwriting talents. Without them, bands/artists may well still be getting their songs from imported songwriting teams.

Apart from writing their own stuff, they were one of the first - if not the first - group (at least in the UK) to buck the trend of recording "9 to 5" and one of the first to push the boundaries of multi-track recording (Les Paul notwithstanding).

[NancyL21st]

Anyone from the rap/hip hop scene deserving of mention? Dr Dre? Grandmaster Flash?

Grandmaster Flash and Kool Herc for being basically the first rap acts. I think Public Enemy deserves mention for injecting politics into the mix, and dare I say, the Beastie Boys. Coming of age in white suburbia in the 1980s rap didn't break into the overall conscousness of kids until License To Ill came out. Ganted that record isn't the Beasties best work but it succeeded (I think) in getting white kids deeper into the music.

And what about Sugarhill Gang?
Their "Rappers Delight" (1979) was the first ever Rap single to hit the charts.

[Prez!]

Unless I've missed it,I've not seen Buddy Holly's name here yet.

Not to piss on anyone elses chips,I feel he took the singer/songwriter tag on a new direction.Innovative in his guitar style,vocal style,production values and such a varied output over a criminally short career.

[NancyL21st]

Unless I've missed it,I've not seen Buddy Holly's name here yet.

Not to piss on anyone elses chips,I feel he took the singer/songwriter tag on a new direction.Innovative in his guitar style,vocal style,production values and such a varied output over a criminally short career.

Spot on, Matt!

[Spock!]

Dizzy Gillespie/Charlie Parker for that bebop thing.

Claude Thornhill/Gil Evans for that cool thang.

[mentalist (slight return)]

Not an artist, but what about John Peel

[Cup of Char]

Not an artist, but what about John Peel

I was wondering when he was gonna be mentionned. I don't know if we can say that he made things possible. But he surely made them easier for loads of bands.
But if I have understood the intentions of DD when he started this thread, it was about the ones who changed music direction with what they brought that was musically new. Then, John Peel is not part of the game.
But as I've said it, as a media, he has a real importance. But he himself didn't make music change.

[NancyL21st]

Not an artist, but what about John Peel

Absolutely!

John Peel is a rock'n'roll legend at some point as well.