Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Backslapping time. Well done us. We are fantastic.
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PENK
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Postby PENK » 26 Mar 2005, 02:29

Josh wrote:Bump!


To be honest I think you're alone in considering them worthy of inclusion. After all, they only made the one album and it was hardly groundbreaking, in fact it was somewhat derivative.
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Postby The Midnight Special » 26 Mar 2005, 02:45

Penk. Steve Penk. wrote:
Josh wrote:Bump!


To be honest I think you're alone in considering them worthy of inclusion. After all, they only made the one album and it was hardly groundbreaking, in fact it was somewhat derivative.


I think that's a bit harsh. In fact, it beggars belief. If it wasn't for Kenny's groundbreaking 'The Bump' single and follow up album, The Smiths would never have formed, Prince would never have picked up a guitar, Michael Jackson would still be black, REM would probably still be driving buses in and around the Leicester area, and Tony Hart would never have got his own series. Is that what you want? You've damn well put me off my plate of peas now.
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Postby PENK » 26 Mar 2005, 02:49

The Midnight Special wrote:
Penk. Steve Penk. wrote:
Josh wrote:Bump!


To be honest I think you're alone in considering them worthy of inclusion. After all, they only made the one album and it was hardly groundbreaking, in fact it was somewhat derivative.


I think that's a bit harsh. In fact, it beggars belief. If it wasn't for Kenny's groundbreaking 'The Bump' single and follow up album, The Smiths would never have formed, Prince would never have picked up a guitar, Michael Jackson would still be black, REM would probably still be driving buses in and around the Leicester area, and Tony Hart would never have got his own series. Is that what you want? You've damn well put me off my plate of peas now.


I have to disagree with you there, I think that Hart would have had his own series whatever, as it was evident from the very start that he had the talent but until he started working with Morph he never managed to keep it under control. However Morph's more randomised creativity acted to keep Hart's own avant-garde tendencies in check and Hart moved more towards the mainstream and began the work that made him the name he is today. Therefore I think Morph was the chief influence behind Hart's success, and Bump has almost nothing to do with it other than being played quietly in the background once while Tony did a picture of a wizard.
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Postby The Midnight Special » 26 Mar 2005, 03:14

Penk. Steve Penk. wrote:
The Midnight Special wrote:
Penk. Steve Penk. wrote:
Josh wrote:Bump!


To be honest I think you're alone in considering them worthy of inclusion. After all, they only made the one album and it was hardly groundbreaking, in fact it was somewhat derivative.


I think that's a bit harsh. In fact, it beggars belief. If it wasn't for Kenny's groundbreaking 'The Bump' single and follow up album, The Smiths would never have formed, Prince would never have picked up a guitar, Michael Jackson would still be black, REM would probably still be driving buses in and around the Leicester area, and Tony Hart would never have got his own series. Is that what you want? You've damn well put me off my plate of peas now.


I have to disagree with you there, I think that Hart would have had his own series whatever, as it was evident from the very start that he had the talent but until he started working with Morph he never managed to keep it under control. However Morph's more randomised creativity acted to keep Hart's own avant-garde tendencies in check and Hart moved more towards the mainstream and began the work that made him the name he is today. Therefore I think Morph was the chief influence behind Hart's success, and Bump has almost nothing to do with it other than being played quietly in the background once while Tony did a picture of a wizard.


Morph revisionism if ever I heard it. Morph actually held Hart back. Every time Hart had meetings with senior BBC execs, the plasticine prick would sneakily ruffle up Hart's tie, undo one of his shirt buttons or even loosen one of his cufflinks - causing the execs to rule Hart out of superstardom for another 6 months for reasons of shabby appearance. It's just Hart's dignified silence about the matter and Morph's constant crowing that he "put Hart where he is today" that prevents the public from knowing the real truth. Morph sickens me. So much so, that brown is no longer my favourite colour - and you can't get much more sickened than that.
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Postby Diamond Dog » 26 Mar 2005, 14:59

This thread got kind of buried in the nonsense. I'll revisit it over the weekend.
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Postby Diamond Dog » 23 Apr 2005, 16:33

Ah, but which weekend, I hear you say? :wink:
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Postby Diamond Dog » 25 Jul 2005, 19:23

Worth another look, methinks.
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Postby Diamond Dog » 25 Jul 2005, 19:27

Diamond Dog wrote:I thought about James Brown - I'm not entirely sure that the way he drove music was a natural evolution of what went before (and would have happened without him) but he certainly is close to being in here.


But then you realise that he really invented 'funk', by playing on 'the one' not the upbeat, and you simply must include him.
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Postby Diamond Dog » 13 Oct 2005, 21:30

BUMP!!!
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Postby The Great DeFector » 13 Oct 2005, 21:33

Probably mentioned already but couldn't be arsed to read the whole thing but


David Bowie
Price Buster
Bob mould

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Postby Diamond Dog » 13 Oct 2005, 21:34

Dr Markus wrote:Probably mentioned already but couldn't be arsed to read the whole thing but


David Bowie
Price Buster
Bob mould


Is that like a discount chain? :lol:
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Postby The Great DeFector » 13 Oct 2005, 21:36

Diamond Dog wrote:
Dr Markus wrote:Probably mentioned already but couldn't be arsed to read the whole thing but


David Bowie
Price Buster
Bob mould


Is that like a discount chain? :lol:


ha ha


Prince Buster

happy?

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Postby The Write Profile » 13 Oct 2005, 21:38

Diamond Dog wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:I thought about James Brown - I'm not entirely sure that the way he drove music was a natural evolution of what went before (and would have happened without him) but he certainly is close to being in here.


But then you realise that he really invented 'funk', by playing on 'the one' not the upbeat, and you simply must include him.


....And the fact that without him, the first age of hiphop would've been starved for beats. Personally my favourite James Brown period is the one which features on Disc Two of the Star Time! set ("The Hardest Working Man in Showbusiness"), where he and his band broke the confines of soul and throttled them with the funk. By the end of that period, the band, with James, as the conductor, had figured a way to hold a chord and extract the groove out of it : "Give It Up or Turn It Loose", for instance.

I'm not as much of a fan of the latter parts of Disc Three, though the avant-weirdness and the hotdamn energy of Sex Machine cannot be denied.

What an amazing Box Set that is. The motherlode. And proof that he is unquestionably* the most influential Black Pop artist of the last 40 years.

Well, unless you can think of someone else, of course!
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Postby The Modernist » 13 Oct 2005, 22:26

Here's one for you to ponder .
The Stones invented punk ..Stones-> garage punk -> The Stooges -> punk. The line starts with them I'd say. They also invented stadium rock, not an achievement i'd thank them for, but there you have it.
When you look at any band within a clear rock (as opposed to pop) framework, it's The Stones they're referencing.

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Postby Jeff K » 13 Oct 2005, 22:34

Sea of Modernist! (SoM) wrote:Here's one for you to ponder .
The Stones invented punk ..Stones-> garage punk -> The Stooges -> punk. The line starts with them I'd say. They also invented stadium rock, not an achievement i'd thank them for, but there you have it.
When you look at any band within a clear rock (as opposed to pop) framework, it's The Stones they're referencing.


I would agree except for the bit about stadium rock. The Grateful Dead and the Allman Brothers must share the blame.
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Postby The Modernist » 13 Oct 2005, 22:39

Jeff K wrote:
Sea of Modernist! (SoM) wrote:Here's one for you to ponder .
The Stones invented punk ..Stones-> garage punk -> The Stooges -> punk. The line starts with them I'd say. They also invented stadium rock, not an achievement i'd thank them for, but there you have it.
When you look at any band within a clear rock (as opposed to pop) framework, it's The Stones they're referencing.


I would agree except for the bit about stadium rock. The Grateful Dead and the Allman Brothers must share the blame.


Actually it's probably Led Zeppelin that codified it. But I think this idea of a band as an an event band, and rock as a mass communal cathartic experience (which is what I was thinking of rather than a narrow genre definition of stadium rock) originates with The Stones more than anyone.

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Postby Jeff K » 13 Oct 2005, 22:44

If you're talking about the outdoor, football stadium gigs, I don't believe the Stones started playing those until 1975.

But as far as the concert being an event, they were definitely a spectacle.
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Postby The Modernist » 13 Oct 2005, 22:48

Jeff K wrote:If you're talking about the outdoor, football stadium gigs, I don't believe the Stones started playing those until 1975.

But as far as the concert being an event, they were definitely a spectacle.


Yeah, I wasn't thinking so much of the chronology, just the idea of these big rock songs that act almost like a rallying cry. I think in many ways you can say the whole idea of rock music came from them, but their influence is so amorphous and omniscient, its very hard to pinpoint in terms of dates or specific records.

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Postby The Modernist » 13 Oct 2005, 23:14

this is not a Fred wrote:Last time I saw the list, Charlie Parker and Thelonious Monk still weren't on it. :x Miles Davis may have changed music history several times, but they taught him how to do it for Christ's sex!



Neither is Duke Ellington which is a huge omission. Modern jazz starts with him surely. He is the bridge between traditional and modern.

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Postby bhoywonder » 14 Oct 2005, 09:26

Sea of Modernist! (SoM) wrote:Here's one for you to ponder .
The Stones invented punk ..Stones-> garage punk -> The Stooges -> punk. The line starts with them I'd say. They also invented stadium rock, not an achievement i'd thank them for, but there you have it.
When you look at any band within a clear rock (as opposed to pop) framework, it's The Stones they're referencing.


Did the Stones invent garage punk?