Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Backslapping time. Well done us. We are fantastic.
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Kenji
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Postby Kenji » 21 Feb 2005, 15:37

Image

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Postby My name is Spaulding » 21 Feb 2005, 15:51

bhoywonder wrote:
I'm surprise dthat DD didn't include Led Zep either...


The real surprise is that up until you mentioned, we all kept quiet about his omission. Almost as if we didn´t want him to realise about it.

I´d include them too.
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Postby souphound » 21 Feb 2005, 16:01

Kenji wrote:Image


Big time. Bravo.
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Postby Mychael » 21 Feb 2005, 16:20

Idontlikeyourmusic wrote:Miles Davis.


Woman approaching Miles Davis at a celebrity party: "Now, what did YOU do?" (obviously not knowing him)
Miles Davis: "I changed the history of music four times."
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Postby andymacandy » 21 Feb 2005, 17:10

bhoywonder wrote:
andymacandy wrote:Thats what I meant.Pranksters was ,say 66?Acid rock really biting by 67?
I need to read Keseys book again.


Well, Kesey started 'experimenting' around 61, I think. Do you mean the Electric Kool Aid Acid Test? I assume you've read this?

Not for a while.It wasnt until say 66,67 that it had a cultural impact though.Sure, Kesey was experimenting, but when do you think acid actually impacted music.Sgt Pepper?Rubber Soul, maybe just stretching it?
Im guessing the Dead and the SF ballroom gigs were happening around the same tme.
bhoywonder wrote:
andymacandy wrote:What about the Meters/Toussaint/Nevilles?
Maybe too obscure.


Hmmm, I think the root here would be more in the New Orleans mardi-gras bands. While those you mention are very deserving, wehere do you stop/start? You'd have to include Professor Longhair, I would say. Maybe he's where to start?

Its a bit of a stretch isnt it, as they tended to have their own self-contained scene, rather than strongly influence the history of music.

What about folks like CCR?Blue collar working class road band that went out on extensive mid west tours, paving the way for bland Brit Blues based monoliths and US arena rock ?
(Great band CCR, not putting them down)
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Postby Diamond Dog » 21 Feb 2005, 17:29

Captain Spaulding wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:
I'm surprise dthat DD didn't include Led Zep either...


The real surprise is that up until you mentioned, we all kept quiet about his omission. Almost as if we didn´t want him to realise about it.

I´d include them too.


See, I wouldn't. The original premise was that the artist changed the landscape. Zep, in all honesty, took what Jimi and Cream (and, maybe, Grateful Dead) and made it bigger (and better, in my view) but they didn't really change too much.

See, you never thought you'd hear me say that, did you? :shock: :lol:
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Postby The Modernist » 21 Feb 2005, 17:30

goldwax wrote:
IlModernista wrote:
goldwax wrote:I'd throw in Phil Spector. Before him, people didn't conceive of the studio as instrument or producer as artist. Plus, he inspired the Beatles, Beach Boys and many others on down the line.


You could say Joe Meek got there first, although it's harder to gage his influence.


Could it be because his influence is much less?

Meek was incredibly inventive in his methods and a trailblazer in adopting unorthodox recording techniques and sounds in pop music, but if you compared his best work with Spector's, there's no comparison. The songs, the performances, even the production--Spector wipes the floor with Meek. Heck, compare Meek's best to Spector's second-best, and that still holds true.


Yep, no disagreement there.

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Postby Kenji » 21 Feb 2005, 17:34

Mychael wrote:
Idontlikeyourmusic wrote:Miles Davis.


Woman approaching Miles Davis at a celebrity party: "Now, what did YOU do?" (obviously not knowing him)
Miles Davis: "I changed the history of music four times."


"I'm Miles Davis and you're not".

...is my favorite one! He could say this because it's true...

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Postby Tactful Cactus » 21 Feb 2005, 18:04

Mychael wrote:
Idontlikeyourmusic wrote:Miles Davis.


Woman approaching Miles Davis at a celebrity party: "Now, what did YOU do?" (obviously not knowing him)
Miles Davis: "I changed the history of music four times."


And there began the phrase, He likes to blow his own trumpet
:roll:

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Postby souphound » 21 Feb 2005, 18:12

Diamond Dog wrote:
Captain Spaulding wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:
I'm surprise dthat DD didn't include Led Zep either...


The real surprise is that up until you mentioned, we all kept quiet about his omission. Almost as if we didn´t want him to realise about it.

I´d include them too.


See, I wouldn't. The original premise was that the artist changed the landscape. Zep, in all honesty, took what Jimi and Cream (and, maybe, Grateful Dead) and made it bigger (and better, in my view) but they didn't really change too much.

See, you never thought you'd hear me say that, did you? :shock: :lol:


But I think that so many others have taken from Zep and adapted it that their inclusion here is acceptable. I'm not sure the full transition from Cream and Jimi, and perhaps a couple of others, to the brand(s) of Heavy that we have today would have been the same without Zep's contribution.

Just my opinion.
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Postby Owen » 21 Feb 2005, 18:19

Pete wrote:
Mychael wrote:
Idontlikeyourmusic wrote:Miles Davis.


Woman approaching Miles Davis at a celebrity party: "Now, what did YOU do?" (obviously not knowing him)
Miles Davis: "I changed the history of music four times."


And there began the phrase, He likes to blow his own trumpet
:roll:


Put like that that's all it was.

Here's the full (possibly apocryphal) version

"In 1987 Davis attended a reception in honor of Ray Charles at Ronald Reagan's White House. A Washington society lady, seated next to him, asked him what he had done to be invited. "Well," Davis replied, "I've changed music four or five times. What have you done of any importance other than be white?" "

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Postby Cup of Char » 21 Feb 2005, 18:25

Kenji wrote:Image
Brilliant brilliant post.

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Postby souphound » 21 Feb 2005, 18:30

goldwax wrote:
Cup of char wrote:
Kenji wrote:Image
Brilliant brilliant post.


yep. post of the year so far.


The picture that sings a thousand songs.
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Postby Diamond Dog » 21 Feb 2005, 18:54

SoupHound wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
Captain Spaulding wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:
I'm surprise dthat DD didn't include Led Zep either...


The real surprise is that up until you mentioned, we all kept quiet about his omission. Almost as if we didn´t want him to realise about it.

I´d include them too.


See, I wouldn't. The original premise was that the artist changed the landscape. Zep, in all honesty, took what Jimi and Cream (and, maybe, Grateful Dead) and made it bigger (and better, in my view) but they didn't really change too much.

See, you never thought you'd hear me say that, did you? :shock: :lol:


But I think that so many others have taken from Zep and adapted it that their inclusion here is acceptable. I'm not sure the full transition from Cream and Jimi, and perhaps a couple of others, to the brand(s) of Heavy that we have today would have been the same without Zep's contribution.

Just my opinion.


Well, of course I think they were hugely important in that they showed a new facet that others hadn't really exploited. But, and it's a big but, it's not so far removed from what Cream were doing (live, at least) to allow it be said that they changed the landscape. After all, Page used an awful lot of stuff that he'd carried over from The Yardbirds - should they be included? But, I do understand your view, Soup.
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Postby The Modernist » 21 Feb 2005, 21:43

Bowie. There certainly wasn't an artist like him beforehand.

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Postby natch » 21 Feb 2005, 22:05

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Re: Without whom this wouldn't have been possible....

Postby C » 21 Feb 2005, 22:13

Diamond Dog wrote:Kraftwerk - The only really new thing (post 'rock) has been synthesised, beat driven music. All hip hop owes a great deal to Kraftwerk - without their dedication to making 'non rock' music, it couldn't have happened.


Not quite. Kraftwerk owed it all to Tangerine Dream

.

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Postby Spock! » 21 Feb 2005, 22:18

Goldwax wrote:
Josh wrote:
Claude Thornhill/Gil Evans for that cool thang.



What about Miles/Mulligan?



I think that Evan's - and indeed Mulligan's arrangements for Thornhill are the immediate precursor and inspiration for the 'Cool'. It was Thornhill's work with it's unique voicings that Davis and others drew on.

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Postby NancyL21st » 21 Feb 2005, 23:10

Shagger Dave wrote:
Nancy (Class Of 1997) wrote:
Shagger Dave wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:Anyone from the rap/hip hop scene deserving of mention? Dr Dre? Grandmaster Flash?


Grandmaster Flash and Kool Herc for being basically the first rap acts. I think Public Enemy deserves mention for injecting politics into the mix, and dare I say, the Beastie Boys. Coming of age in white suburbia in the 1980s rap didn't break into the overall conscousness of kids until License To Ill came out. Ganted that record isn't the Beasties best work but it succeeded (I think) in getting white kids deeper into the music.


And what about Sugarhill Gang?
Their "Rappers Delight" (1979) was the first ever Rap single to hit the charts.


I've always thought of the Sugarhill Gang as a one off, producers vison type of thing. I also think that although they were timed at about the same time as Kool Herc and Grandmaster Flash the fact that their claim to fame was basically them rapping over a Chic record they didn't have the amount of ingenuity or creativity as Flash or Herc. Rapper's Delight does deserve a mention, though Nancy as a record that made it all possible, but I'm not too sure about the Sugarhill Gang as a unit.

(PS I saw the Sugarhill Gang with Run DMC and the Jungle Brothers and they sucked, really really hard.)


Correct enough, Dave!

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Postby Shagger Dave » 22 Feb 2005, 01:44

Nancy (Class Of 1997) wrote:
Shagger Dave wrote:
Nancy (Class Of 1997) wrote:
Shagger Dave wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:Anyone from the rap/hip hop scene deserving of mention? Dr Dre? Grandmaster Flash?


Grandmaster Flash and Kool Herc for being basically the first rap acts. I think Public Enemy deserves mention for injecting politics into the mix, and dare I say, the Beastie Boys. Coming of age in white suburbia in the 1980s rap didn't break into the overall conscousness of kids until License To Ill came out. Ganted that record isn't the Beasties best work but it succeeded (I think) in getting white kids deeper into the music.


And what about Sugarhill Gang?
Their "Rappers Delight" (1979) was the first ever Rap single to hit the charts.


I've always thought of the Sugarhill Gang as a one off, producers vison type of thing. I also think that although they were timed at about the same time as Kool Herc and Grandmaster Flash the fact that their claim to fame was basically them rapping over a Chic record they didn't have the amount of ingenuity or creativity as Flash or Herc. Rapper's Delight does deserve a mention, though Nancy as a record that made it all possible, but I'm not too sure about the Sugarhill Gang as a unit.

(PS I saw the Sugarhill Gang with Run DMC and the Jungle Brothers and they sucked, really really hard.)


Correct enough, Dave!

My words are up with yours once again.

Hey, this ain't no compitition, just some friendly music chat! :D
He tries.


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