I WAS wrong about: UK '70s

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The Black Shadow
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Postby The Black Shadow » 27 Dec 2004, 12:38

Something XMas Pieter wrote:I didn't do anything yesterday but listen to Secret Santa discs and nominations from this thread, so it was a day well spent.


I'm glad I'm so important to you :x

:wink:
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Postby Brother Spoon » 27 Dec 2004, 13:00

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OK, I approached this with something of a 'lets get this over with' attitude. I think I get what Led Zeppelin is all about and I don't think it's a good idea. Listening to side one of this reinforced all my opinions on this matter. Side two is better, in that it is more throwaway and therefore less heavy-handed.

But that's the nicest thing I can say about this. Sorry.

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To cut to the chase, I want to play this one again because of Colin Moulding's songs, I don't want to play this one again because Andy Partridge sounds like a big baby kicking and screaming for attention. It is a dilemma.

It seems I'm always coming back to the vocals to decide whether or not I really like the albums. That is just to show that the albums all have something going for them (or they wouldn't have been nominated), but I guess some kinds of singing appeal more to me than others. It's like that with this XTC album: it's quite consistent in songwriting and arranging (meaning that it is even in both quality and tone), but depending on who's singing it I either really like it very much or it annoys me a little bit.


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Aha, controversy :D .
I don't know if you've noticed but there are a lot of negative feelings going round when it come to progrock (Is this progrock?). I am aware that I may have said some bad things about Genesis without having heard anything by them. So these albums I'm really trying to approach in a very positive way, to atone for my previous sins.
The first problem once again was the vocals. But on a second listen I caught on that Peter Gabriel sounds a little bit like Nick Saloman of the Bevis frond (I know i've got that backwards). When I listened to it from that angle it started to make a little more sense to me. There is something theatrical about it (Well, duh... -Ed.) that I will probably never really learn to appreciate, but it started to sound a little more human to me.
When it comes to the songs, surprisingly the shorter tracks did little for me, but it was longer tracks like the first one (I forget the name) and 'The Cinema Show' that i did enjoy. Neverknows, 'Battle of Epping Forest' is indeed by far the worst thing on the album. For me it is unbearable also, but it is the only one that's unbearable to me, if that helps you any.

So, in conclusion, I think I can see where it's going, and I'm glad i've heard it now. I'm not so sure that it's an album that I will find myself in the mood for in the future.

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Postby Brother Spoon » 27 Dec 2004, 13:01

Black Shadow hate you wrote:
Something XMas Pieter wrote:I didn't do anything yesterday but listen to Secret Santa discs and nominations from this thread, so it was a day well spent.


I'm glad I'm so important to you :x

:wink:


:oops: It was a long day yesterday apparently.

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Postby The Black Shadow » 27 Dec 2004, 13:04

Something XMas Pieter wrote:
Black Shadow hate you wrote:
Something XMas Pieter wrote:I didn't do anything yesterday but listen to Secret Santa discs and nominations from this thread, so it was a day well spent.


I'm glad I'm so important to you :x

:wink:


:oops: It was a long day yesterday apparently.


I'll make sure next Monday will seem even longer then. :twisted:

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Postby Quaco » 27 Dec 2004, 18:25

I don't quite see what's so difficult about Genesis. For me, the theatricality did take a couple of listens to get into at first, but the music is quite accessible. Always was. Melody was always to the fore. To me, it's no great leap from the White Album to Nursery Cryme. The line of lineage is quite clear. And the way Gabriel sings his lyrics is of the most wonderful things in music.

"The Battle of Epping Forest" is a very difficult track, in that the music and lyrics are both way too much, and when combined the effect is cluttered. Quite witty though. It's taken me a long time to actually enjoy it as much as I now do.

The situation Neverknows descibes -- not knowing a piece of music well enough to find what's good about it, but knowing it far too well to ever be surprised by it or indeed to ever want to hear it again -- is a common problem these days. There is so much music around, a lot of things get over-heard before they've even once been listened to. It's just sad, and it ruins perfectly good music. I feel sorry for kids who feel this way about The Beatles. I guess I was just lucky to escape it in a lot of cases.
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Postby The Slider » 27 Dec 2004, 18:32

Quaco wrote:To me, it's no great leap from the White Album to Nursery Cryme. The line of lineage is quite clear.


Ah, the old 'Happiness is a Warm Gun as the Cradle of Prog' theory again.

Listen to Quaco at this point.
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Postby Quaco » 27 Dec 2004, 18:36

Also, the "'Dear Prudence' is the cradle of the Rutherford-Phillips acoustic guitar sound" theory. And the "Gabriel often sounded a bit like Lennon (though just as often sounded like George Formby or Roger Chapman) and was a complete and utter genius" theory.
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Postby Brother Spoon » 28 Dec 2004, 09:02

Something XMas Pieter wrote: Image

To cut to the chase, I want to play this one again because of Colin Moulding's songs, I don't want to play this one again because Andy Partridge sounds like a big baby kicking and screaming for attention. It is a dilemma.


So I did play it again, and I am warming to the Andy Partridge-side of it a little bit more, but I'd sure like XTC a whole lot better if it was a Moulding-run enterprise.

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Postby Cédric » 28 Dec 2004, 09:05

Roma by Federico Fellini (1972)

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Captain Spaulding wrote:I sent my list already! It´s shit.

I´m so excited.

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Postby Cédric » 28 Dec 2004, 09:06

Uccelacci e Uccelini by Pier Paolo Pasolini (1965)

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Captain Spaulding wrote:I sent my list already! It´s shit.

I´m so excited.

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Postby Brother Spoon » 28 Dec 2004, 09:12

Quaco wrote:I don't quite see what's so difficult about Genesis. For me, the theatricality did take a couple of listens to get into at first, but the music is quite accessible.


'T is true. I was surprised at how accessible and melodic the musical side of it is.

Quaco wrote:To me, it's no great leap from the White Album to Nursery Cryme. The line of lineage is quite clear.


I'm afraid I've not caught on to that at all. I really don't know what you mean. 'Dear Prudence' sounds like Genesis? :?

Quaco wrote:And the way Gabriel sings his lyrics is one of the most wonderful things in music.


Perhaps it will grow on me as it did on you, but I'm not there by a long way yet. In these first steps I'm taking into prog-territory, I'm quite often pleasantly surprised by the music, but so far the vocals are what keep me from enjoying it to a degree that I would want to return to it.

Quaco wrote: I don't quite see what's so difficult about Genesis...

"The Battle of Epping Forest" is a very difficult track,...


It's definitely too much for me. It took a lot of effort not to skip through it.

Quaco wrote: The situation Neverknows descibes -- not knowing a piece of music well enough to find what's good about it, but knowing it far too well to ever be surprised by it or indeed to ever want to hear it again -- is a common problem these days. There is so much music around, a lot of things get over-heard before they've even once been listened to. It's just sad, and it ruins perfectly good music. I feel sorry for kids who feel this way about The Beatles. I guess I was just lucky to escape it in a lot of cases.


Perhaps this is my problem with the David Bowie albums.

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Postby Brother Spoon » 28 Dec 2004, 09:13

Cédric wrote:Roma by Federico Fellini (1972)

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That's not even a record, Cédric, let alone British or from the '70s. :wink:

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Postby The Black Shadow » 28 Dec 2004, 09:43

Something XMas Pieter wrote:
Cédric wrote:Roma by Federico Fellini (1972)

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That's not even a record, Cédric, let alone British or from the '70s. :wink:


:lol: The boob, he posted on the wrong thread! :lol:
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Postby Cédric » 28 Dec 2004, 12:44

Black Shadow hate you wrote:
Something XMas Pieter wrote:
Cédric wrote:Roma by Federico Fellini (1972)

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That's not even a record, Cédric, let alone British or from the '70s. :wink:


:lol: The boob, he posted on the wrong thread! :lol:


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Woopw, sorry ! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Captain Spaulding wrote:I sent my list already! It´s shit.

I´m so excited.

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Postby Cédric » 28 Dec 2004, 12:46

Wrong thread.
Captain Spaulding wrote:I sent my list already! It´s shit.

I´m so excited.

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Postby Cédric » 28 Dec 2004, 12:49

Something XMas Pieter wrote:
Cédric wrote:Roma by Federico Fellini (1972)

Image


That's not even a record, Cédric, let alone British or from the '70s. :wink:


I can do better than that...

And now I suggest :

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Captain Spaulding wrote:I sent my list already! It´s shit.

I´m so excited.

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Postby The Black Shadow » 28 Dec 2004, 12:52

:D :lol:
"What part of andele! don't you understand, you yankee piece of scum?"

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Postby The Slider » 28 Dec 2004, 13:14

Something XMas Pieter wrote: In these first steps I'm taking into prog-territory, I'm quite often pleasantly surprised by the music, but so far the vocals are what keep me from enjoying it to a degree that I would want to return to it.


Ok, Pieter - very carefully - no sudden movements - put down the Van Der Graaf Generator album - and back very slowly away......
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Postby Quaco » 28 Dec 2004, 19:03

Something XMas Pieter wrote:
Quaco wrote:To me, it's no great leap from the White Album to Nursery Cryme. The line of lineage is quite clear.


I'm afraid I've not caught on to that at all. I really don't know what you mean. 'Dear Prudence' sounds like Genesis? :?

As you have probably noticed, Genesis has a couple of things they use all the time: Gabriel's fanciful and pun-laced lyrics. (The other boys sometimes wrote them, but they tended to be more straightforward.) The droning bass pedal notes held while chords change on top. And one of the most recognizable things, double acoustic guitar patterns creating little chiming webs of chords.

This began on Trespass, and was an outgrowth of then-guitarist Anthony Phillipps and bassist Michael Rutherford's acoustic jamming. As the songs developed, Rutherford (who was musically the most limited member of the band) became kind of a bass-guitar hybrid. If you see photos of the band live, he plays a double-neck -- but not just for showing off. He really uses that 12-string neck a lot, sometimes while hitting bass pedals with his feet. This gave the band a bigger sound and allowed them to do more with intricate guitars (making them sound like harpsichords or something, as in the intro to "The Cinema Show"), but also limited the overall bass movement, so that Genesis is actually pretty simple music.*

The acoustic-guitar interplay and soft, sometimes-doubled vocals on "Harlequin", "For Absent Friends", "Lovers Leap" (the first part of "Supper's Ready") and so on, to me, are right off the White Album. The slightly sterile recording quality only adds to it. It wouldn't surprise me if Elliott Smith liked early Genesis!

The members of Genesis have often likened the band to a writers' collective. None of them had aspirations to being virtuoso musicians, though Tony Banks (kybd) and Phil Collins are as good as anybody. Listening to them (or seeing footage of them live), I am always struck by how everything is written into the song. Tony Banks really does not do improvised solos like Keith Emerson or Rick Wakeman. Whether he's too scared or uptight or what, I don't know, but it has the effect of keeping Genesis free of a lot of the egotistical excesses normally associated with prog. (Not that your usual prog-basher would notice!)




*Compare with Yes's Chris Squire, who is all over the place. Prog rock grew out of taking rock and infusing it with classical forms and ambitions, but classical is a large field. If Yes takes rock to a quasi-symphonic level, influenced by 19th Century composers, then Genesis's droning pedal bass harkens back to the power of certain pipe-organ moments of J.S. Bach, where the church is shaking with one bass note, while the chords and intricacies work all around it.
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Postby Brother Spoon » 03 Jan 2005, 11:10

Oh no, it's back! :shock:

Thanks for the explanation, Quaco; I'll revisit it with that in mind.

I've been playing a lot of British music last week, I'll post some more later.

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Having made a nice run of albums, Paul McCartney records his 'Abbey Road'. I like it a lot (but also a lot less than 'Ram'), but the signs are here why I'm no longer interested in much he made after.

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I'm afraid that despite trying my best I've not been able to change my opinion on this record, which is that it's three great singles and some reruns.

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That's more like it. Even though I already knew this record by heart, I found it hard to stop playing it again and again once I'd started.

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It's my second favorite Costello album (after 'Get Happy') so it's safe to say I love it very much.

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The least typical of Nick Drake's records, but also my favorite. On Slider's advice I played it really loud and it did sound different (in a good way) that way.


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I don't know what came over me, but I really enjoyed this one. :shock: It sounds as if Bowie really doesn't have too much of a clue of what record to make and that's how I like Bowie best.
So I played 'Hunky Dory' and 'Ziggy...' again to see if they'd grown on me, but alas, no such luck.