I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:28

yomptepi wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:I would say that many people have made consistantly good records over a long period -

Primal Scream,
the Jesus & Mary Chain,
the Smiths,
Stevie Wonder,
Marvin Gaye,
Nina Simone,
Spiritualized,
Johnny Cash,
Wedding Present,
the Pogues,
The Beach Boys (in fact, they probably did release 11 very good albums in less than 11 years),
Dylan (from, say, 64 to 75),
Mogwai,
The Cure (definitely),
Blur,
Air,
Temptations
Serge Gainsbourg
, Sly & The Family Stone,
the Rolling Stones,
the Who,
Simon & Garfunkel... and that's just off the top of my head, limiting it to albums by one artist.



That is a very poor list indeed . None of those artists produced anything to compare with the dames output between 71 and 80. Elton John was prolific and brilliant, but faded after 1976... Elvis Costello had a good run of seven or eight records before becoming mediocre. You have to appreciate the sheer volume of great work Bowie turned out, not only as an artist, but as an innovator and ispirational role model. He defined Glam, along with Bolan, he inspired New Romantic and electronic music. He may not have invented the genres, but he made them what they became. To deny the genius of Bowie is to deny the the way he hurtled through the seventies, leaving all in his wake to stand and watch in awe, as he chopped and changed at will, each time shedding an almost perfect record , all of which were templates for a thousand imitators.

I do not see a single artist in your listthat that could be said about.


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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:32

bhoywonder wrote:
Diamonddog wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:Nobody's denying Bowie anything. I like the early 70s records, I know his influence. My list isn't meant to be ones who defined the 70s for pop fans in the UK though. All I'm saying is that Bowie was not the 3rd greatest artist in the history of 20th century music, which is what Pete was, more or less, stating was fact.


Well, in my book, he's certainly far more important than most (if not all) of the third rate list you trotted out Paul. Really.

btw, inspiring new romantic and glam isn't really going to win anypoints round here.


And Sly (who many would say is the chief inspiration for a great deal of the tuneless r'n'b shite we now suffer) is? And Mogwai? Maybe they're the fourth most important, heh?

Come on Paul - be serious. Please.


[heavy sigh] If only you'd read posts before answering.

3rd rate? er... whatthefuckyoutalkinbout? Johnny Cash, the Smiths, Beach Boys, Stevie Wonder, JAMC, Nina Simone, Marvin Gaye, Bob Dylan, the Cure, and the Rolling Stones - 3rd rate? What a silly thing to say.

Bowie more important than the Stones, Dylan, Johnny Cash and the Beach Boys? Strewth, you're further gone than I thought!

Listen Pete, if you read anybody's posts you'd see nobody (well, not me anyway) is denying Bowie's importance, nor his talent. All I'm saying is that, for me, someone who didn't experience him first time round (apart from the 80s stuff), his records don't sound as great as they do to many others. That's my very simple and pleasant point. Right? Get it? No need to call anyone a fuckwit.

You then said it was taken as fact that he's the 3rd most important artist ever, or somesuch (hilariously suggesting led zep as the 2nd...how we laughed!). I said that it wasn't fact. You asked me who else could be classed as to have made at least arguably decent records over a long period. I did this, and you and your bitch Yomp (hello mate, I have some stuff for you) decided to interpret that list as nominees for the 3rd most important artist ever.

It's just not possible to have a conversation with someone who doesn't listen.


Bowie 1000 x more important than Dylan, i shouldnt ven have to writre this. FUCK sake! barmpot
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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:35

The Modernist wrote:
Balboa wrote:
ElModernisto wrote:Bowie was certainly the most important act of the 70's in terms of influence and innovation. In terms of artistic invention over a ten year period only The Beatles can be said to have bettered him.


What about James Brown?


James Brown was fantastically influential, in fact I'll concede probably more influential than Bowie in that he pretty much was responsible for inventing a genre of music (funk) that had a huge influence on a second genre of music (hip -hop). But Brown didn't release seven groundbreaking albums in a row, all notable for the fantastic breadth of songwriting ability. Bowie did.


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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:37

bhoywonder wrote:
TheProf wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:I've seen Bowie live and I've seen Moghwai live. Bowie isn't fit to switch on their amps.


What a silly thing to say.


Obviously neither of you have seen Mogwai.


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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:42

Quacoan wrote:
nathan wrote:Ok, I am half-way through Diamond Dogs and it still sounds campy to me. Borderline Rocky Horror Picture Show-type campy. :oops:

Take it off right away. Come back to it later. To hear you describe "Sweet Thing"/"Candidate"/"Sweet Thing (reprise)" as borderline Rocky Horror just pains me no end.


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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:47

baron frito pie wrote:
The Electrician wrote:This thing about "artifice" is perhaps something of a UK/US divide. The European tradition of popular music is quite different to that of the US - it developed in part from music hall (very apparent in Bowie) and on the continent from French chanson and German cabaraet. In all these musical forms, there's much more emphasis on characters, role-playing, artifice and over-the-top drama than in the American tradition, which is very much wrapped up in the idea of authenticity and getting back to the roots of the blues or folk or whatever. But the whole "authenticity" thing is in itself a bit of an artifice, as someone pointed out upthread - earnest, jeans-wearing singer-songerwriter is really just as much a role.


I think this gets close to the divide for me. I don't worry much about so-called "authenticity," mainly because I think it's a pretty artificial construct.* My problem with Bowie isn't that he's "inauthentic" or "artificial," but rather that I don't think many of his seventies albums are great. Surely, he is to be congratulated for trying so hard and putting so much work into his product, but by and large, I don't think the LP's justify the high praise. Like nathan, I think the singles and other hits (I don't know which ones were singles) are superlative and amongst the greatest of the time and of all time, but this notion that the LPs are up there with LZ, the Stones, the Beatles, or anyone else doesn't fly with me. I think the reason may be based in what The Electrician pointed out above. Other than superficial familiarity with a few names, French chanson and German Cabaret mean nothing to me and perhaps it is this influence which is what I don't "get." Every so often, I pull out some of these records to give them another shot. Right now I'm playing "The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust" and, apart from the obvious hits, "Starman," "Ziggy Stardust," and "Suffragette City," the rest sounds pretty inconsequential to me (other than some lovely guitar tone).


*My dismissal of the idea of authenticity shouldn't be confused with my frequent slagging of things like rock and roll types playing the "blues" in the 60's. The criticism isn't that they lacked "authenticity" or credibility, but is aimed at their fundamental competence. It's nice if the Stones amped it up with amphetamine craziness or however you want to justify it, but to these ears, that doesn't translate forty years later -- at least not enough to overcome the fundamental shoddiness. I'm willing to buy the argument, except that I just don't hear it.


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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:54

Dr Markus wrote:He doesn't either since he turned in to a business man over being an musician



an musician
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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:57

When sober, return
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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Harvey K-Tel » 05 Mar 2015, 12:35

:D
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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Rayge » 05 Mar 2015, 13:19

How's the hangover, Minnie?
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Re: Re:

Postby nathan » 05 Mar 2015, 15:04

Minnie the Minx wrote:
Quacoan wrote:
nathan wrote:Ok, I am half-way through Diamond Dogs and it still sounds campy to me. Borderline Rocky Horror Picture Show-type campy. :oops:

Take it off right away. Come back to it later. To hear you describe "Sweet Thing"/"Candidate"/"Sweet Thing (reprise)" as borderline Rocky Horror just pains me no end.


They're not fucking worthy

In all fairness, in the 11 years since I wrote that, I have come to love Diamond Dogs. And I do love Bowie. :)

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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby yomptepi » 05 Mar 2015, 17:56

This thread made me sad. All the posters we have lost along the way.

I blame the Modernist.
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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Harvey K-Tel » 05 Mar 2015, 18:15

As you should. His incessant blatherings about Kanye West and 'Love Removal Machine' have been a pox on this place.
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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 18:24

Rayge wrote:How's the hangover, Minnie?



Ooof.
*dons dark glasses*
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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Jeemo » 07 Mar 2015, 08:53

Fantastic stuff Minnie.
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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Minnie the Minx » 07 Mar 2015, 14:53

Jeemo wrote:Fantastic stuff Minnie.


I'm still not sure what happened. I only went out to get a vegetable saag.
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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Jeemo » 07 Mar 2015, 15:17

Minnie the Minx wrote:
Jeemo wrote:Fantastic stuff Minnie.


I'm still not sure what happened. I only went out to get a vegetable saag.


Bloody vegetables....
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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby The Modernist » 08 Mar 2015, 11:02

onions wrote:As you should. His incessant blatherings about Kanye West and 'Love Removal Machine' have been a pox on this place.


:?

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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Harvey K-Tel » 17 Mar 2015, 13:39

:|
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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby kewl klive » 18 Mar 2015, 12:03

It's all "Kendrick Lamar this" and "Kendrick Lamar that" with him these days, give it a rest Moddie :(
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