I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Hepcat » 21 Sep 2010, 19:36

JQW wrote:I listened to all of 'The Rise And Fall of Ziggy Stardust' last night, and simply couldn't understand why the thing is so highly rated.

The same applies to every other Bowie album I've ever heard. Not one has done anything for me. He just sounds like a charlatan to me, riding on the coat-tails of his latest producer or collaborator.

Where am I going wrong?


It may be that you're looking for originality which is a scarce commodity indeed in this day and age. Some in fact would argue that it was all done at least a score of times by the time of the great Emperor Vespasian. I'll leave that question to the more learned than myself. I'll just suggest that you flip the LP over to side two and stop thinking so hard. That all too often gets in the way of enjoying the music.

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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Diamond Dog » 28 Sep 2010, 03:49

Vespasian

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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:13

Well DUUUUUH
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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:15

bhoywonder wrote:You're not going wrong at all. You're dead right. Sort of.

Ziggy is a great pop record, has some cracking bits and I thoroughly enjoy it, but only in the same way I enjoy Sheer Heart Attack.

He's the most over-rated artist ever, to these ears. Don't worry about it mate.


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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:16

Shagger Dave wrote:I think once he hit his stride around Hunky Dory he ws pretty brilliant up until Young Americans, which is pretty dull, but then rebounded until Scarey Monsters. He is a bit of a stylistic chameleon but I don't think it was until let's Dance that hestarted chasing whatever was hip in his reinventions. I mean, if you listen to Low or Heroes they both sound years ahead of their time, and I doubt it was all Eno's imput. Same for his glam period- Visconti worked with Bolan as well as Bowie so all credit can't go there. I love T.Rex but if Bowies songs weren't as consistantly strong he's have sank as quickly as Bolan did.


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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:16

cheifwhat wrote:i kind of agree myself here,

his albums are pretty far from consistent for the most part.

but then, if you listen to his earlier greatest hits, you'll hear some breath-takingly good songs with some real variety in there.

for a good ratio of decent to flawless album i doubt you can really beat the beatles and led zeppelin.

certainly i dont think his bobness is quite up there, far too much shite. same with bowie.

##

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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:17

Minnie the Minx wrote:I could talk at length about my fondness for his music but Im off t' shops in a minute so I will just say this..I fancied him more before he got his teeth done.

Ditto Clive Owen


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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:20

Guy E wrote:I pretty much agree with JQW. I was a big fan in the 70's but the records don't hold up too well IMO. I have Hunky Dory & Ziggy Stardust on CD, but haven't played either in years... I think it's been more than a decade since I played any of the others on LP. I just have no interest in his work at this juncture.


The records don't hold up well.
Oh my God.
How did I not see this all before?
Oh my God.
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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:21

Quacoan wrote:Jeth, I can only say that it takes a lot more than riding a producer's coattails to write a song. The shifting of styles is his "hook" but ultimately it's about the many great songs he's written. Listen to them. Forget about trying to follow his "arc" or thinking you're cleverer than he is for figuring him out. The whole chameleon thing is just the surface. There's nothing producer-y about "Life on Mars?" or "Soul Love" or "Rock and Roll Suicide". They're just very good, lyrical songs.

Not everyone is destined to be a Bowie freak like Atomic Loonybin, but there's no denying the man constructed song after song. The way the albums sounded may have had a lot to do with his producers and sidemen, but they didn't write the songs. That was David Bowie's gift, and how he differs from Madonna.




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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:21

Diamond Dog wrote:Let's say it again, for old times sakes:

From "Man Who Sold The World" up until "Scary Monsters" he released (with an occassional blip - like "Young Americans" & "Lodger"- which were just mildly superb) the greatest run of studio albums by any artist with the exception (maybe) of The Beatles and Led Zeppelin. The truly brilliant ones "Ziggy stardust", "Aladdin Sane", "Diamond Dogs", "Station To Station" and "Low" are quite magnificent and stand out from the vast majority of 'product' within that timescale.
It's a scientific fact guys - I've used my calibrator....

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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:25

atomic loonybin wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:Maybe if Bowie had released quality material in the last twenty years I'd feel differently...


Absolutely fucking drives me mad this does. Anyone actually heard the run of albums from Buddha of Suburbia through to Reality? There is plenty of quality material on those albums. OK, maybe Bowie isn't as vital a part of the zeitgeist as much these days, but for a 50 plus bloke those are daring and excellent albums. Some of the material certainly stands muster with his seventies stuff. At least he had the balls to acknowledge that he made some crap records and that he needed to restore his reputation.

Absolute fucking laziness to say he's released nothing of quality since 1983. Mostly from people who can't be bothered to bloody listen.


iM listening now. and you are right.
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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:28

yomptepi wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:I would say that many people have made consistantly good records over a long period -

Primal Scream,
the Jesus & Mary Chain,
the Smiths,
Stevie Wonder,
Marvin Gaye,
Nina Simone,
Spiritualized,
Johnny Cash,
Wedding Present,
the Pogues,
The Beach Boys (in fact, they probably did release 11 very good albums in less than 11 years),
Dylan (from, say, 64 to 75),
Mogwai,
The Cure (definitely),
Blur,
Air,
Temptations
Serge Gainsbourg
, Sly & The Family Stone,
the Rolling Stones,
the Who,
Simon & Garfunkel... and that's just off the top of my head, limiting it to albums by one artist.



That is a very poor list indeed . None of those artists produced anything to compare with the dames output between 71 and 80. Elton John was prolific and brilliant, but faded after 1976... Elvis Costello had a good run of seven or eight records before becoming mediocre. You have to appreciate the sheer volume of great work Bowie turned out, not only as an artist, but as an innovator and ispirational role model. He defined Glam, along with Bolan, he inspired New Romantic and electronic music. He may not have invented the genres, but he made them what they became. To deny the genius of Bowie is to deny the the way he hurtled through the seventies, leaving all in his wake to stand and watch in awe, as he chopped and changed at will, each time shedding an almost perfect record , all of which were templates for a thousand imitators.

I do not see a single artist in your listthat that could be said about.


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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:32

bhoywonder wrote:
Diamonddog wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:Nobody's denying Bowie anything. I like the early 70s records, I know his influence. My list isn't meant to be ones who defined the 70s for pop fans in the UK though. All I'm saying is that Bowie was not the 3rd greatest artist in the history of 20th century music, which is what Pete was, more or less, stating was fact.


Well, in my book, he's certainly far more important than most (if not all) of the third rate list you trotted out Paul. Really.

btw, inspiring new romantic and glam isn't really going to win anypoints round here.


And Sly (who many would say is the chief inspiration for a great deal of the tuneless r'n'b shite we now suffer) is? And Mogwai? Maybe they're the fourth most important, heh?

Come on Paul - be serious. Please.


[heavy sigh] If only you'd read posts before answering.

3rd rate? er... whatthefuckyoutalkinbout? Johnny Cash, the Smiths, Beach Boys, Stevie Wonder, JAMC, Nina Simone, Marvin Gaye, Bob Dylan, the Cure, and the Rolling Stones - 3rd rate? What a silly thing to say.

Bowie more important than the Stones, Dylan, Johnny Cash and the Beach Boys? Strewth, you're further gone than I thought!

Listen Pete, if you read anybody's posts you'd see nobody (well, not me anyway) is denying Bowie's importance, nor his talent. All I'm saying is that, for me, someone who didn't experience him first time round (apart from the 80s stuff), his records don't sound as great as they do to many others. That's my very simple and pleasant point. Right? Get it? No need to call anyone a fuckwit.

You then said it was taken as fact that he's the 3rd most important artist ever, or somesuch (hilariously suggesting led zep as the 2nd...how we laughed!). I said that it wasn't fact. You asked me who else could be classed as to have made at least arguably decent records over a long period. I did this, and you and your bitch Yomp (hello mate, I have some stuff for you) decided to interpret that list as nominees for the 3rd most important artist ever.

It's just not possible to have a conversation with someone who doesn't listen.


Bowie 1000 x more important than Dylan, i shouldnt ven have to writre this. FUCK sake! barmpot
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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:35

The Modernist wrote:
Balboa wrote:
ElModernisto wrote:Bowie was certainly the most important act of the 70's in terms of influence and innovation. In terms of artistic invention over a ten year period only The Beatles can be said to have bettered him.


What about James Brown?


James Brown was fantastically influential, in fact I'll concede probably more influential than Bowie in that he pretty much was responsible for inventing a genre of music (funk) that had a huge influence on a second genre of music (hip -hop). But Brown didn't release seven groundbreaking albums in a row, all notable for the fantastic breadth of songwriting ability. Bowie did.


THAT
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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:37

bhoywonder wrote:
TheProf wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:I've seen Bowie live and I've seen Moghwai live. Bowie isn't fit to switch on their amps.


What a silly thing to say.


Obviously neither of you have seen Mogwai.


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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:42

Quacoan wrote:
nathan wrote:Ok, I am half-way through Diamond Dogs and it still sounds campy to me. Borderline Rocky Horror Picture Show-type campy. :oops:

Take it off right away. Come back to it later. To hear you describe "Sweet Thing"/"Candidate"/"Sweet Thing (reprise)" as borderline Rocky Horror just pains me no end.


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Re:

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:47

baron frito pie wrote:
The Electrician wrote:This thing about "artifice" is perhaps something of a UK/US divide. The European tradition of popular music is quite different to that of the US - it developed in part from music hall (very apparent in Bowie) and on the continent from French chanson and German cabaraet. In all these musical forms, there's much more emphasis on characters, role-playing, artifice and over-the-top drama than in the American tradition, which is very much wrapped up in the idea of authenticity and getting back to the roots of the blues or folk or whatever. But the whole "authenticity" thing is in itself a bit of an artifice, as someone pointed out upthread - earnest, jeans-wearing singer-songerwriter is really just as much a role.


I think this gets close to the divide for me. I don't worry much about so-called "authenticity," mainly because I think it's a pretty artificial construct.* My problem with Bowie isn't that he's "inauthentic" or "artificial," but rather that I don't think many of his seventies albums are great. Surely, he is to be congratulated for trying so hard and putting so much work into his product, but by and large, I don't think the LP's justify the high praise. Like nathan, I think the singles and other hits (I don't know which ones were singles) are superlative and amongst the greatest of the time and of all time, but this notion that the LPs are up there with LZ, the Stones, the Beatles, or anyone else doesn't fly with me. I think the reason may be based in what The Electrician pointed out above. Other than superficial familiarity with a few names, French chanson and German Cabaret mean nothing to me and perhaps it is this influence which is what I don't "get." Every so often, I pull out some of these records to give them another shot. Right now I'm playing "The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust" and, apart from the obvious hits, "Starman," "Ziggy Stardust," and "Suffragette City," the rest sounds pretty inconsequential to me (other than some lovely guitar tone).


*My dismissal of the idea of authenticity shouldn't be confused with my frequent slagging of things like rock and roll types playing the "blues" in the 60's. The criticism isn't that they lacked "authenticity" or credibility, but is aimed at their fundamental competence. It's nice if the Stones amped it up with amphetamine craziness or however you want to justify it, but to these ears, that doesn't translate forty years later -- at least not enough to overcome the fundamental shoddiness. I'm willing to buy the argument, except that I just don't hear it.


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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:54

Dr Markus wrote:He doesn't either since he turned in to a business man over being an musician



an musician
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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby Minnie the Minx » 05 Mar 2015, 06:57

When sober, return
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Re: I don't 'get' Bowie at all.

Postby harvey k-tel » 05 Mar 2015, 12:35

:D
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