The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

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algroth
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby algroth » 21 Jun 2011, 23:55

Jeff K wrote:
the masked man wrote: Actually, I'd have loved to seen votes for Arch Enemy, if because they have a female vocalist who does nothing but growl - really, really odd!


You weren't lying. :lol:

Image


Hawt.

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trans-chigley express
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby trans-chigley express » 22 Jun 2011, 00:24

Black Sabbath - IV 8
Led Zepellin - IV 8
Rainbow -Rising 8
Black Sabbath - Paranoid 7
Black Sabbath - Heaven and Hell 6
Led Zepellin - Physical Graffiti 6
Rush - Moving Pictures 6
Motorhead - Ace of Spades 5
Rush - Permanent Waves 5
Deep Purple - In Rock 5
Hawkwind - Levitation 5
Motorhead - Overkill 5
Status Quo - Quo 5
Status Quo - Hello 5
Nazareth - Expect No Mercy 4
Blue Oyster Cult - Secret Treaties 3
Faith No More - The Real Thing 3
Alice Cooper - Billion Dollar Babies 2
Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast 2
AC/DC - Back In Black 2

Stretching things a bit with Quo, Hawkwind and Nazareth but they could all be pretty heavy at times. I'm much more of a heavy rock than heavy metal kind of guy.

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algroth
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby algroth » 22 Jun 2011, 00:34

So if Rush and AC/DC are Metal, what's the stance on King Crimson's Red? it occurs to me that it might have been the heaviest Rock album recorded back when it came out, at least on a mainstream basis. Certainly heavier than Sabbath to my ears.
Last edited by algroth on 22 Jun 2011, 00:50, edited 1 time in total.

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bobzilla77
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby bobzilla77 » 22 Jun 2011, 00:37

the masked man wrote:
Jeff K wrote:Actually indie hipsters are very open to metal and prog.


Really? I remember seeing a list of Pitchfork's top 250 LPs of the year one time and noting that Mastodon (who I like, btw) were the only metal band there. Also, from experience I know that indie fans cannot abide the female-fronted European bands that are now my principal obsession.

I don't get on with indie much now.


I sense they're "open" to it but have not totally "embraced" it. In the same way a lot of 80s punkers would say they liked Venom but relatively few listened to those records.

It's hard to say what the hipsters are against these days. Everything that sucks can be appreciated ironically. There aren't many obvious Enemies Of The State these days.
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby bobzilla77 » 22 Jun 2011, 00:40

algroth wrote:So if Rush and AC/DC are Metal, what's the stance on King Crimson's Red it occurs to me that it might have been the heaviest Rock album recorded back when it came out, at least on a mainstream basis. Certainly heavier than Sabbath to my ears.


I considered voting for Red. But it's more the audience that get Rush put into the Metal camp, jersey-wearing loner stoners with mullets and peachfuzz who also like Judas Priest. Crimson never had much of that audience. They may have been stoned, and alone, but there the comparison ends.
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.

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algroth
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby algroth » 22 Jun 2011, 00:52

bobzilla77 wrote:
algroth wrote:So if Rush and AC/DC are Metal, what's the stance on King Crimson's Red it occurs to me that it might have been the heaviest Rock album recorded back when it came out, at least on a mainstream basis. Certainly heavier than Sabbath to my ears.


I considered voting for Red. But it's more the audience that get Rush put into the Metal camp, jersey-wearing loner stoners with mullets and peachfuzz who also like Judas Priest. Crimson never had much of that audience. They may have been stoned, and alone, but there the comparison ends.


Seems pretty flimsy to define a genre based on its audience instead of its music. Same for image (isn't Arthur Brown the original Metal artist, in that case?).

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algroth
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby algroth » 22 Jun 2011, 00:59

Actually, the same question I made would apply to Mahavishnu Orchestra. Some of the riffs here would not be out of place in a Heavy Metal album:


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trans-chigley express
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby trans-chigley express » 22 Jun 2011, 01:22

algroth wrote:So if Rush and AC/DC are Metal, what's the stance on King Crimson's Red? it occurs to me that it might have been the heaviest Rock album recorded back when it came out, at least on a mainstream basis. Certainly heavier than Sabbath to my ears.


Not to mine. I think both sabbath and AC/DC are heavier. I think Rush straddle the prog/heavy rock line at times and I included a couple of their heavier albums but I could never put Crimson in that catagory. They can get heavy but it's always done in a more progressive fashion in the same way that Yes could get heavy but never in way that could ever be classified as Heavy Metal. This probably makes no sense.

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algroth
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby algroth » 22 Jun 2011, 01:29

trans-chigley express wrote:
algroth wrote:So if Rush and AC/DC are Metal, what's the stance on King Crimson's Red? it occurs to me that it might have been the heaviest Rock album recorded back when it came out, at least on a mainstream basis. Certainly heavier than Sabbath to my ears.


Not to mine. I think both sabbath and AC/DC are heavier. I think Rush straddle the prog/heavy rock line at times and I included a couple of their heavier albums but I could never put Crimson in that catagory. They can get heavy but it's always done in a more progressive fashion in the same way that Yes could get heavy but never in way that could ever be classified as Heavy Metal. This probably makes no sense.


It makes no sense to me considering Red is maniacally heavy from the get-go, and Yes are a bunch of pansies compared to King Crimson in any era (that is, ignoring that both shared members at times). In either case, AC/DC is not heavy at all to my ears. It's hard, maybe, but not heavy. The same applies to most of Rush's output, too.
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never/ever
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby never/ever » 22 Jun 2011, 01:33

Led Zepellin? :lol:

My little list:

1. Porcupine Tree- In Absentia (15)
2. Jesu- Conqueror (10)
3. The Gathering- Mandylion (8)
4. Opeth- Blackwater Park (7)
5. Dream Theater- Images & Words (7)
6. Ministry- Psalm 69 (7)
7. AC/DC- Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap (6)
8. Queensrÿche- Operation: Mindcrime (5)
9. Iron Maiden- Killers (5)
10. Rammstein- Sehnsucht (5)
11. Isis- Panopticon (4)
12. Type O Negative- October Rust (4)
13. Trouble- Manic Frustration (3)
14. Judas Priest- Screamin For Vengeance (3)
15. Fates Warning- No Exit (3)
16. Anathema- Eternity (2)
17. Y&T- Earthshaker (2)
18. Metallica- Ride The Lightning (2)
19. Sunn-o)))- 00 Void (1)
20. Blackfoot- Marauder (1)
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Jeff K
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby Jeff K » 22 Jun 2011, 01:40

algroth wrote:It makes no sense to me considering Red is maniacally heavy from the get-go, and Yes are a bunch of pansies compared to King Crimson in any era. In either case, AC/DC is not heavy at all to my ears. It's hard, maybe, but not heavy.


You must remember that those of us of a certain age more or less grew up with AC/DC and they were always marketed as a metal band and those were the kind of audiences that were drawn to them. Whether or not they actually were is debatable but it's easy to understand why a lot of us paint them that way. King Crimson, regardless of how heavy Redis, were always considered prog. I picked Aerosmith's Rocks which was another album/band that drew the metal crowd. In the long run all this does is prove how meaningless labels really are.
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never/ever
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby never/ever » 22 Jun 2011, 01:42

AC/DC, Aerosmith and such- I call it hard rock. Valid subdivision of metal.
Whatever suit, it still fits the poll.
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Jeff K
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby Jeff K » 22 Jun 2011, 01:44

never/ever wrote:AC/DC, Aerosmith and such- I call it hard rock. Valid subdivision of metal.
Whatever suit, it still fits the poll.


Hey, Copehead called the list conservative and predictable and he included Boston and the White Stripes on his so it's all good.
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby never/ever » 22 Jun 2011, 01:54

Jeff K wrote:
never/ever wrote:AC/DC, Aerosmith and such- I call it hard rock. Valid subdivision of metal.
Whatever suit, it still fits the poll.


Hey, Copehead called the list conservative and predictable and he included Boston and the White Stripes on his so it's all good.



He's a good egg.
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algroth
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby algroth » 22 Jun 2011, 02:15

Jeff K wrote:
algroth wrote:It makes no sense to me considering Red is maniacally heavy from the get-go, and Yes are a bunch of pansies compared to King Crimson in any era. In either case, AC/DC is not heavy at all to my ears. It's hard, maybe, but not heavy.


You must remember that those of us of a certain age more or less grew up with AC/DC and they were always marketed as a metal band and those were the kind of audiences that were drawn to them. Whether or not they actually were is debatable but it's easy to understand why a lot of us paint them that way. King Crimson, regardless of how heavy Redis, were always considered prog. I picked Aerosmith's Rocks which was another album/band that drew the metal crowd. In the long run all this does is prove how meaningless labels really are.


Sure thing, but it's been 35-40 years since they were first released. You'd expect people to look back at these after all this time and see the records for what they actually were. What I'm arguing here is not why Red is not considered Metal (I would not consider it as such), but why that album has not been mentioned more often as such when it's clearly heavier and more technical than many of the records that actually made it to the list.

I guess your response explains a good deal of it, though I'm still completely in the blue regarding Guns N' Roses, a band which was promoted as the savious of Hard Rock back in their day, as opposed to Heavy Metal, and came at a time where these distinctions seemed clear enough.

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trans-chigley express
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby trans-chigley express » 22 Jun 2011, 03:52

Jeff K wrote:
algroth wrote:It makes no sense to me considering Red is maniacally heavy from the get-go, and Yes are a bunch of pansies compared to King Crimson in any era. In either case, AC/DC is not heavy at all to my ears. It's hard, maybe, but not heavy.


You must remember that those of us of a certain age more or less grew up with AC/DC and they were always marketed as a metal band and those were the kind of audiences that were drawn to them. Whether or not they actually were is debatable but it's easy to understand why a lot of us paint them that way. King Crimson, regardless of how heavy Redis, were always considered prog. I picked Aerosmith's Rocks which was another album/band that drew the metal crowd. In the long run all this does is prove how meaningless labels really are.


This has a lot to do with it rightly or wrongly. Many of my mates from those days were heavy metal obsessives who would embrace AC/DC et al but wouldn't touch King Crimson with a barge pole and would regard the likes of Starless as pansy art wank and always viewed my penchant for the proggier side of things with deep suspicion (but I was alright really 'cos I loved Sabbath and Zep :lol: ).

I think algroth underestimates how powerful Yes could be at times but their complexity and melodic flair would always distance them from the metal boys who always liked their heavy rock to be more of the 'meat and potatoes' variety. Yes were always a bit too lentil curry.

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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby WG Kaspar » 22 Jun 2011, 06:31

Here's my list, a proper fuckin' metal list. It's quite surpring that there's no Helloween or Manowar from the old guard. These were staples with the metalheads back in the day, especially Helloween. Also where's Dream Theater? I thought these guys were a shoe-in as far as modern metal goes. Shows how much I know.

1) megadeth - rust in peace
2) iron maiden - number of the beast
3) Black Sabbath - Vol4
4) Metallica - Master of Puppets
5) Judas Priest - British Steel
6) Savatage - streets
7) AC/DC - back in black
8) iron maiden - Seventh son of the seventh son
9) Metallica - ride the lightning
10) Helloween - Keeper of the 7 Keys Pt. II
11) Saxon - Wheels of Steel
12) Slayer - Reign in Blood
13) Black Sabbath - Paranoid
14) Dio - Holy Diver
15) Motorhead - Ace of Spades
16) Pantera - Vulgar Display of Power
17) Dream Theater - Images And Words
18) The Gathering - Mandylion
19) Anathema - Alternative 4
20) Paradise Lost - Draconian Times
I run out of talent

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algroth
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby algroth » 22 Jun 2011, 08:11

trans-chigley express wrote:I think algroth underestimates how powerful Yes could be at times...


I'm not underestimating them. Where did they get as heavy as "Red", "21st Century Schizoid Man" or "Larks' Tongues In Aspic Pt. 2"? Yes were a very dynamic band, but they never reached the sheer noise and volume of Crimson's heavier stuff.

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algroth
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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby algroth » 22 Jun 2011, 08:13

rock the kaspar wrote:Here's my list, a proper fuckin' metal list. It's quite surpring that there's no Helloween or Manowar from the old guard. These were staples with the metalheads back in the day, especially Helloween. Also where's Dream Theater? I thought these guys were a shoe-in as far as modern metal goes. Shows how much I know.


The less we hear of Dream Theater, the better.

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Re: The BCB Metal Poll - The Results! Now complete!

Postby funky_nomad » 22 Jun 2011, 08:32

All hail the magnificence of my list:

Dio - Holy Diver (20)
King's X - Out Of The Silent Planet (15)
Iron Maiden - Number Of The Beast (12)
Queensryche - Operation Mindcrime (10)
Diamond Head - Borrowed Time (8)
Scorpions - Blackout (7)
Tesla - Mechanical Resonance (6)
Loudness - Disillusion (5)
Black Sabbath - Mob Rules (4)
Accept - Balls To The Wall (3)

Metallica - Ride The Lightning (1)
Saxon - Wheels Of Steel
Motorhead - No Sleep 'Til Hammersmith(1)
Judas Priest - British Steel (1)
Motley Crue - Shout At The Devil (1)
Demon - The Unexpected Guest (1)
Vow Wow - V (1)
UFO - No Heavy Petting (1)
Great White - Great White (1)
Michael Schenker Group - Built To Destroy(1)
Dokken - Tooth & Nail (1)
Just a penitent man


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