70s Cup Grand Final Match 6 *Ranking Ted 21- Griff 14*

[The Modernist]

That's rock n' roll, which isn't what I meant. I meant 'rocking out' in a sixties context (so the way The Stones or Led Zep rock out for instance)

Well, strictly speaking it's not rock and roll, it's based on a Chuck Berry R&B number, and the Stones' 'rockier' stuff is usually rooted in R&B or blues, while I've hardly heard anything from those other tossers, so that's no help.
As an ancillary, can you name any band that 'rocks out' in your definition,who are actually worth listening to?

Any rock band.
I think everyone else knows what I mean...I don't want to get in a long argument of how we define 'rock music'!

[Rayge]

As an ancillary, can you name any band that 'rocks out' in your definition,who are actually worth listening to?

Any rock band.

note the section in bold...

I think everyone else knows what I mean...

A common misconception

I don't want to get in a long argument of how we define 'rock music'!

Fair enough, me neither: it sounds like we're basically in agreement anyway, that the Beach Boys couldn't cut it as an album band, which is where we came in.
FWIW, the reason I asked in the first place (apart from whimsy and frolic) was that I always associated 'rocking out' with those interminable blooze 'jams' and cliche-ridden semen-encrusted brick shithouse C-fodder that was so common in the late ’60s and early ’70s: I never heard anything like that ever from the Beach Boys, although I did more or less stop listening after Surf's Up, so thought you might have meant something different.

[The Modernist]

I just meant when they attempted harder, contemporary styles - for example " Got To Know the Woman" or "Student Demonstration Time" or when this speeds up ( around 2.25 for example) they sound less comfortable. Their earlier rock n' roll/surf sound I see as a different thing and it's not really what I was referring to.
I hope that's clear!

[fange]

Very good match, 2 songs from 2 albums and artists i love. By a whisker i'll go with Shug.

A

[T. Willy Rye]

A

[toomanyhatz]

I like B just fine, though I don't quite get the logic of purposely seeking out a non-Brian track when there are plenty of good 70s ones with him.
.

Because by the late sixties and early seventies, the others - Dennis and Carl in particular- were making songwriting contributions every bit as good as Brian. It's a shame you've bought into the 'genius of Brian Wilson' to such a degree that you see loving a non-Brian song as a perverse choice when, in fact, this period is littered with great non- Brian songs.

Actually, I think just the opposite is true. Dennis, in particular, has been fetishized rather ridiculously. Pacific Ocean Blue is a fine album - maybe even great in spots - but it's basically his All Things Must Pass - he really threw everything into it. But pretending that suddenly makes him Brian's equal is extreme wishful thinking. Even Brian at his most fried raised their game on every level. And not that this makes it true, but Carl and Dennis would've agreed with me.

Did they come up with a good song or two when Brian wasn't being terribly productive? Sure. Every bit as good? The notion is laughable. Holland is a good example of what they managed without much Brian input. Not much.

[trans-chigley express]

I love the arrangement in A, nice song with so many great sounds throughout.

B is one of my favourites from that album with a nice contrast between the slow lilting verse and the rocking out chorus which I think works a treat.

Excellent tie

B

[The Modernist]

I like B just fine, though I don't quite get the logic of purposely seeking out a non-Brian track when there are plenty of good 70s ones with him.
.

Because by the late sixties and early seventies, the others - Dennis and Carl in particular- were making songwriting contributions every bit as good as Brian. It's a shame you've bought into the 'genius of Brian Wilson' to such a degree that you see loving a non-Brian song as a perverse choice when, in fact, this period is littered with great non- Brian songs.

Actually, I think just the opposite is true. Dennis, in particular, has been fetishized rather ridiculously. Pacific Ocean Blue is a fine album - maybe even great in spots - but it's basically his All Things Must Pass - he really threw everything into it. But pretending that suddenly makes him Brian's equal is extreme wishful thinking. Even Brian at his most fried raised their game on every level. And not that this makes it true, but Carl and Dennis would've agreed with me.

Did they come up with a good song or two when Brian wasn't being terribly productive? Sure. Every bit as good? The notion is laughable. Holland is a good example of what they managed without much Brian input. Not much.

There greatest song of this whole period Feel Flows is a Carl song. There's no wishful thinking about it, the songwriting from the others is every bit as good at this point of their careers.

[Penk!]

Really good match-up, this one.
A was new to me and I liked it a lot: delicate but sprightly with a melodicism that's sometimes been missing from the kitchen-sink soul-funk people have put forward in the Cup.
Surf's Up is probably my favourite Beach Boys album and the verses on this song are just lovely. The chorus initially sounds clunky and out of place, but there's a strong hook that hits hard.

A for being fresher to me.

[kath]

i love this match-up. A starts off nice and sucks me in more as it moves along, the instrumentation coming in (in groovy and different ways)... i found it a pleasure to listen to.

B as others have noted has some elements that weigh it down, combined with quite lovely, lifting sections that move me. a strange combination but one that ultimately works for me.

hmmmm...


i'll go with B. a higher highs thing, though very close. cheers to both pickers.

[harvey k-tel]

A is more interesting.

[GoogaMooga]

That's rock n' roll, which isn't what I meant. I meant 'rocking out' in a sixties context (so the way The Stones or Led Zep rock out for instance)

They wouldn't be the Beach Boys if they did.

[GoogaMooga]

B Carl had a few shining moments as a songwriter and this is one of them.

[toomanyhatz]

There greatest song of this whole period Feel Flows is a Carl song. There's no wishful thinking about it, the songwriting from the others is every bit as good at this point of their careers.

Forgot about "Feel Flows." Great song, undeniably. But one song. And there are a few great Dennis ones too - "Forever," " Baby Blue. " That's a few in the decade, for sure. Are they as good as "This Whole World" or "Til' I Die?" Not to these ears.

[GoogaMooga]

There greatest song of this whole period Feel Flows is a Carl song. There's no wishful thinking about it, the songwriting from the others is every bit as good at this point of their careers.

Forgot about "Feel Flows." Great song, undeniably. But one song. And there are a few great Dennis ones too - "Forever," " Baby Blue. " That's a few in the decade, for sure. Are they as good as "This Whole World" or "Til' I Die?" Not to these ears.

They came close a few times, but the best of Carl and Dennis could not match the best of Brian, I don't think.

[Neige]

B

[Belle Lettre]

A

[mantochanga]

A, one of my favourites.

[Osgood]

Nice one. I could balance either way with similar arguments to those posted before. Just

B

[Count Machuki]

A