90s Cup Grand Final Match 13 *joels344 12- Modernist 9*

[Ranking Ted]

I’m just old and crotchety - this Cup is way more fun than a list of binary As and Bs. Enjoy your contributions DF, even if sone picks are out of my wheelhouse as the phrase goes. As a Weller loving accountant, you’d expect me to say that

[The Modernist]

It feels as if anything with a pop sensibility gets dismissed and I wouldn't say this cup has been notable for its variety. We've had loads of samey sounding US indie. But if that's what people were into in the 90s so be it. I was being a bit provocative in my comments, but I'm quite happy for people to have different tastes to me ( although I appreciate it may not always look that way! )

[trans-chigley express]

I got through 2 minutes of A then realized there was another 6 minutes to go and my heart just sank .

I didn't like B much but it still came as a blessed relief.

B

[Ranking Ted]

It feels as if anything with a pop sensibility gets dismissed and I wouldn't say this cup has been notable for its variety. We've had loads of samey sounding US indie. But if that's what people were into in the 90s so be it. I was being a bit provocative in my comments, but I'm quite happy for people to have different tastes to me ( although I appreciate it may not always look that way! )

+1

[algroth]

It feels as if anything with a pop sensibility gets dismissed

Having a pop sensibility doesn't immediately translate to good pop music, and the 90s especially had a streak of really terrible fads in terms of the overall sound and attitude that really hampered whatever semblance of a hook these songs may have had going for them. Be it britpop, mainstream rap, indie/shoegaze et al. No doubt the same crew you believe actively goes against anything with a pop sensibility has plenty of crossover with the people who've chosen and voted for the likes of Stereolab, Björk, Cocteau Twins and the trip-hop acts, and you'd have to be bloody tone-deaf to not recognize the pop sensibility in there. Christ, you have to be tone-deaf to not recognize the obvious pop sensibility in Ulver's track in this matchup, but somehow voting for it instead of the World of Twist *must* imply some grand prejudice against pop music at large. But fair enough, if making half-assed blanket statements like these gives you some comfort about your perceived position as an arbiter of taste, be my guest.

[The Modernist]

Bloody hell Al -calm down!

I stand by my observation.The tuneless guitar type tracks have certainly outweighed anything with a pop sensibility and most pop tracks have received negative comments. It's absolutely the right of anyone to comment in any way they wish, I think Ted and I were just noting this prevailing trend..okay I had a bit of a dig as well, but I rather thought the hyperbolic way I expressed it ( I don't really believe BCB is responsible for the decline of western civilisation!) showed I had my tongue in my cheek.

[Goat Boy]

Bloody hell Al -calm down!

I stand by my observation.The tuneless guitar type tracks have certainly outweighed anything with a pop sensibility and most pop tracks have received negative comments. It's absolutely the right of anyone to comment in any way they wish, I think Ted and I were just noting this prevailing trend..okay I had a bit of a dig as well, but I rather thought the hyperbolic way I expressed it ( I don't really believe BCB is responsible for the decline of western civilisation!) showed I had my tongue in my cheek.

You get this when discussing the 90s around here. This notion that the stuff that was popular was basically bobbins and that the "alternative" stuff was actually really where it's at. I am not against pushing this notion completely because I think there was some really good alternative stuff around, mostly electronic and hip hop that is sometimes ignored and which paints a more varied picture of the decade than is sometimes recognised by its naysayers but it's also nonsense to dismiss some of the stuff you mention when the likes of Britpop actually produced some of the best music that decade. Christ, I'd take a handful of Oasis tunes over 90% of the guff that has been picked here but if I did I would surely lose to some cunt playing an out of tune banjo in an abattoir. That Ulver tune is just some shapeless combination of metal and and floppy fringed shoegaze that nobody ever asked for and nobody really needs. Absolutely hopeless. I'd take Some Might Say or Regulate over it any day of the week.

[algroth]

Bloody hell Al -calm down!

I stand by my observation.The tuneless guitar type tracks have certainly outweighed anything with a pop sensibility and most pop tracks have received negative comments. It's absolutely the right of anyone to comment in any way they wish, I think Ted and I were just noting this prevailing trend..okay I had a bit of a dig as well, but I rather thought the hyperbolic way I expressed it ( I don't really believe BCB is responsible for the decline of western civilisation!) showed I had my tongue in my cheek.

Most *tracks* have received mostly negative comments, pop or otherwise. And I don't have my hands clean on this point, but Christ, this whole cup has gradually descended into this cesspool of cynicism and derision of the most toxic sort. I just can't see how one can come here, read all this bile and then pretend the response to all the music here would be any other, it's like every match has become the music critic's version of a dick measuring contest, more concerned with writing a snarky response to and maybe throw some shade at some section of the board or other and less so of actually *listening* to the music. You say you're being tongue in cheek but after ten times of repeating the same remark it's really hard to tell if the hyperbole isn't the real deal. Seriously, this toxicity the board displays just about drains any enjoyment there is to be had here, and is no doubt one of the reasons it's gradually dying out.

[Ranking Ted]

Uh, I’ve started something here I didn’t intend - the comments this year have been barbed but people have been giving it out as well as taking it. There’s been lots of positivity as well - albeit there’s very different tastes on display. None of it is personal and it’s much more fun, to me at least, to read effusive praise or criticism even if I disagree with most of what’s written. It’s just a game after all. Carry on folks!

[algroth]

Maybe not try to accuse a part of dodgy practices or try to read some cod psychology or ulterior motive into their votes next time, perhaps? We can always talk about the music, in pretty incisive fashion if one desires, but this whole bullshit about trying to read into the voters or some general BCB trend or whatnot really grates after a while.

[Ranking Ted]

Maybe not try to accuse a part of dodgy practices or try to read some cod psychology or ulterior motive into their votes next time, perhaps? We can always talk about the music, in pretty incisive fashion if one desires, but this whole bullshit about trying to read into the voters or some general BCB trend or whatnot really grates after a while.

Ok, Al - I think I explained my throwaway post wasn’t meant literally and it wasn’t. There’s been lots of projection on here - it’s been entertaining for me but maybe not so much for others. I’ll stick to saying the music is great or shite, and there’s been a fuck load of shite, in future.

[Ranking Ted]

And does anyone really care who wins this anyway?

[Goat Boy]

Oooo! You shitstirrer!

[The Modernist]

Bloody hell Al -calm down!

I stand by my observation.The tuneless guitar type tracks have certainly outweighed anything with a pop sensibility and most pop tracks have received negative comments. It's absolutely the right of anyone to comment in any way they wish, I think Ted and I were just noting this prevailing trend..okay I had a bit of a dig as well, but I rather thought the hyperbolic way I expressed it ( I don't really believe BCB is responsible for the decline of western civilisation!) showed I had my tongue in my cheek.

Most *tracks* have received mostly negative comments, pop or otherwise. And I don't have my hands clean on this point, but Christ, this whole cup has gradually descended into this cesspool of cynicism and derision of the most toxic sort. I just can't see how one can come here, read all this bile and then pretend the response to all the music here would be any other, it's like every match has become the music critic's version of a dick measuring contest, more concerned with writing a snarky response to and maybe throw some shade at some section of the board or other and less so of actually *listening* to the music. You say you're being tongue in cheek but after ten times of repeating the same remark it's really hard to tell if the hyperbole isn't the real deal. Seriously, this toxicity the board displays just about drains any enjoyment there is to be had here, and is no doubt one of the reasons it's gradually dying out.

Your post is so over the top, I don't know where to start. In fact I won't bother...that's me finished with the cups for the foreseeable.
I think both myself and Ranking Ted have attempted to explain ourselves in a friendly manner, but you're obviously not interested. I certainly don't think I've written anything "toxic" and I don't think anyone else has.
I've actually spent all day at the hospital where I've seen people with real problems and issues, so I respectfully suggest you develop some perspective.

[Darkness_Fish]

Well, that went a bit more serious than I expected. I mean, when it comes down to it, we've all picked 8 tracks we like, and the rest of the music is unlikely to appeal as much, because we didn't pick it. So the majority of comments are going to be pretty negative. Obviously, there's dividing lines down prog/pop/experimental lines, with some crossover. But not much.

I think what sometimes rankles is speaking in terms of factual absolutes, as if an Oasis track has some factual inherent greatness that a Hafler Trio track doesn't. It's art, and there's no common sense basis on how we can justify any A over B. But it's fun to do so in quite florid terms. I think this site would be much worse if we couldn't speak with a bit of vehemence every so often, in acceptance that it's not aimed at anyone. I think the cups are a highlight of this site, and I wouldn't want to change anything about them, other than have more commentary, than just votes.

[The Modernist]

W I wouldn't want to change anything about them, other than have more commentary, than just votes.

Well there's sod all chance of that happening now.

[Darkness_Fish]

And does anyone really care who wins this anyway?

You're all winners in my eyes. *Group hug*



G is a bit of a cunt though. Fange, too. Not sure about Goat Boy, or hatz either, for that matter. Then there's Copehead and Boom....

[Goat Boy]

There is less common ground that decade so there will be less consensus than other cups.

There is clearly a group of posters who share similar tastes but that always happens. Here though it's quite pronounced.

I've been on holiday the last three weeks so really haven't bothered with the cup - except for voting for my own songs obv! - but I could see where it was heading early doors and I wasn't keen. But then I've been going off the cup for a while now. I'm not convinced that these other cups are really worthwhile.

[Darkness_Fish]

I'm not convinced that these other cups are really worthwhile.

T'other way round for me. The main cup is a selection of 10 tracks no-one listens to, and a Top Gear CD wins. At least in these, there's a bit of variety, and more chance of participants actually bothering to at least give a song 30 seconds.

[Goat Boy]

Not true. To dismiss it - I know it's a joke but still - as Top Gear music is just wrong. There's lots of variety and colour in the main cup even if it inevitably gets a bit more prosaic as it goes along.